Scenic areas in England

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 00:40:28 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-27 16:45:52 -0700, Twibil said:

On May 27, 3:17 pm, Savageduck wrote:
Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. Running from t
he
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.
Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.
Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.
I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.
Easily the best way of outrunning a 'Vette' is to use that radio to
call in help up the road. A nice spike-strip across the road does
wonders, and if you are lucky, you get to see Chevy's famous exploding
plastic car when the driver loses it.

One of the strange things with spike strips, is the amazing ability of
a great variety of vehicles to run considerable distances on rims. The
good thing about the 'vette in this regard, is those rims are not
steel, and they wear down to the disc rotors pretty quickly. Also very
few of those hit with spike strips actually "lose" it, they sort of
grind to a halt, unless they are truly crazy.

The other thing to consider is, gas in a hot running 8 lunger is a
finite commodity.
True, but you need to keep him in sight...

On 2009-05-28 13:36:23 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 00:40:28 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-27 16:45:52 -0700, Twibil said:

On May 27, 3:17 pm, Savageduck wrote:
Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. Running from t
he
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.
Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.
Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.
I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.
Easily the best way of outrunning a 'Vette' is to use that radio to
call in help up the road. A nice spike-strip across the road does
wonders, and if you are lucky, you get to see Chevy's famous exploding
plastic car when the driver loses it.

One of the strange things with spike strips, is the amazing ability of
a great variety of vehicles to run considerable distances on rims. The
good thing about the 'vette in this regard, is those rims are not
steel, and they wear down to the disc rotors pretty quickly. Also very
few of those hit with spike strips actually "lose" it, they sort of
grind to a halt, unless they are truly crazy.

The other thing to consider is, gas in a hot running 8 lunger is a
finite commodity.
True, but you need to keep him in sight...

Not quite as difficult as you believe, nowadays.

Fortunately for the most part, the imagined ability of the 'vette
driver to outrun everything, is dampened by his actual ability to do so.
Sometimes dumb luck will out and he will be able to evade, this is an
unusual outcome regardless of the vehicle driven.
If the vehicle is stolen, or hijacked the felon will abandon it as soon
as he believes he can get away, and that usually leads to capture.
If it is an idiot being chased in his own vehicle, he has already
starred in the current video of the day recorded in the majority of
pursuit vehicles, and we will have a pretty good idea of who owns the
car, or who the owner knows is using the car.

Any pursuit confined to surface streets is limited by the environment
and most performance vehicles do not have an advantage over a trained
driver in one of the current Law Enforcement pursuit cruisers, be it
Crown Vic Interceptor (this is not Grand Pa's crown Vic ), or Charger
PD conversion.

If the chase is on limited access highways or freeways, the key is to
keep the chased vehicle on that freeway and monitor exits and
communication between pursuers and dispatch centers. Let him run we
know where he is and ultimately he will be captured. The thing which
compresses time in this scenario, is the threat the chased driver
presents to the public, which might compel officers to take action to
stop the pursuit as soon as possible.

Then depending on location there is that great Law Enforcement tool,
the helicopter.

Traffic, stress and desperation usually leads to mistakes and capture.

Rural roads may be different, but then the communities are small and
the runner if local will eventually be revealed, or is probably already
locally notorious.


--
Regards,
Savageduck

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 13:36:23 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 00:40:28 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-27 16:45:52 -0700, Twibil said:

On May 27, 3:17 pm, Savageduck wrote:
Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. Running from t
he
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.
Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.
Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.
I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.
Easily the best way of outrunning a 'Vette' is to use that radio to
call in help up the road. A nice spike-strip across the road does
wonders, and if you are lucky, you get to see Chevy's famous exploding
plastic car when the driver loses it.
One of the strange things with spike strips, is the amazing ability of
a great variety of vehicles to run considerable distances on rims. The
good thing about the 'vette in this regard, is those rims are not
steel, and they wear down to the disc rotors pretty quickly. Also very
few of those hit with spike strips actually "lose" it, they sort of
grind to a halt, unless they are truly crazy.

The other thing to consider is, gas in a hot running 8 lunger is a
finite commodity.
True, but you need to keep him in sight...

Not quite as difficult as you believe, nowadays.

Fortunately for the most part, the imagined ability of the 'vette
driver to outrun everything, is dampened by his actual ability to do so.
Sometimes dumb luck will out and he will be able to evade, this is an
unusual outcome regardless of the vehicle driven.
If the vehicle is stolen, or hijacked the felon will abandon it as soon
as he believes he can get away, and that usually leads to capture.
If it is an idiot being chased in his own vehicle, he has already
starred in the current video of the day recorded in the majority of
pursuit vehicles, and we will have a pretty good idea of who owns the
car, or who the owner knows is using the car.

Any pursuit confined to surface streets is limited by the environment
and most performance vehicles do not have an advantage over a trained
driver in one of the current Law Enforcement pursuit cruisers, be it
Crown Vic Interceptor (this is not Grand Pa's crown Vic ), or Charger
PD conversion.

If the chase is on limited access highways or freeways, the key is to
keep the chased vehicle on that freeway and monitor exits and
communication between pursuers and dispatch centers. Let him run we
know where he is and ultimately he will be captured. The thing which
compresses time in this scenario, is the threat the chased driver
presents to the public, which might compel officers to take action to
stop the pursuit as soon as possible.

Then depending on location there is that great Law Enforcement tool,
the helicopter.

Traffic, stress and desperation usually leads to mistakes and capture.

Rural roads may be different, but then the communities are small and
the runner if local will eventually be revealed, or is probably already
locally notorious.


I recall seeing a Vette that missed a curve (running from a deputy
Sheriff in Galveston County, Tx.), and went through a barbed wire fence.
The only part of the car, and driver, that was intact enough to be
recognizable was the engine and transmission, that was sitting about 150
feet out into a pasture. The rest was spread over more than 1/2 acre.
The only time I have seen a worse mess was when a jet fighter crashed
directly into the ground, digging a 30 foot hole, and spreading itself
(and the pilot) over a couple of acres of pasture land. The managed to
pick up about 40 lbs of the pilot in a bag. The Vette was almost as bad.

On 2009-05-28 16:23:59 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 13:36:23 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 00:40:28 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-27 16:45:52 -0700, Twibil said:

On May 27, 3:17 pm, Savageduck wrote:
Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. Running from t
he
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.
Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.
Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.
I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.
Easily the best way of outrunning a 'Vette' is to use that radio to
call in help up the road. A nice spike-strip across the road does
wonders, and if you are lucky, you get to see Chevy's famous exploding
plastic car when the driver loses it.
One of the strange things with spike strips, is the amazing ability of
a great variety of vehicles to run considerable distances on rims. The
good thing about the 'vette in this regard, is those rims are not
steel, and they wear down to the disc rotors pretty quickly. Also very
few of those hit with spike strips actually "lose" it, they sort of
grind to a halt, unless they are truly crazy.

The other thing to consider is, gas in a hot running 8 lunger is a
finite commodity.
True, but you need to keep him in sight...

Not quite as difficult as you believe, nowadays.

Fortunately for the most part, the imagined ability of the 'vette
driver to outrun everything, is dampened by his actual ability to do so.
Sometimes dumb luck will out and he will be able to evade, this is an
unusual outcome regardless of the vehicle driven.
If the vehicle is stolen, or hijacked the felon will abandon it as soon
as he believes he can get away, and that usually leads to capture.
If it is an idiot being chased in his own vehicle, he has already
starred in the current video of the day recorded in the majority of
pursuit vehicles, and we will have a pretty good idea of who owns the
car, or who the owner knows is using the car.

Any pursuit confined to surface streets is limited by the environment
and most performance vehicles do not have an advantage over a trained
driver in one of the current Law Enforcement pursuit cruisers, be it
Crown Vic Interceptor (this is not Grand Pa's crown Vic ), or Charger
PD conversion.

If the chase is on limited access highways or freeways, the key is to
keep the chased vehicle on that freeway and monitor exits and
communication between pursuers and dispatch centers. Let him run we
know where he is and ultimately he will be captured. The thing which
compresses time in this scenario, is the threat the chased driver
presents to the public, which might compel officers to take action to
stop the pursuit as soon as possible.

Then depending on location there is that great Law Enforcement tool,
the helicopter.

Traffic, stress and desperation usually leads to mistakes and capture.

Rural roads may be different, but then the communities are small and
the runner if local will eventually be revealed, or is probably already
locally notorious.


I recall seeing a Vette that missed a curve (running from a deputy
Sheriff in Galveston County, Tx.), and went through a barbed wire
fence. The only part of the car, and driver, that was intact enough
to be recognizable was the engine and transmission, that was sitting
about 150 feet out into a pasture. The rest was spread over more than
1/2 acre. The only time I have seen a worse mess was when a jet fighter
crashed directly into the ground, digging a 30 foot hole, and spreading
itself (and the pilot) over a couple of acres of pasture land. The
managed to pick up about 40 lbs of the pilot in a bag. The Vette was
almost as bad.

This was the worst I have ever experienced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_Flight_1771
The hillside was covered in what looked like confetti, there was
nothing vaguely recognizable as human or plane.
That used to be one of my favorite alternate drives to the coast. I
can't do that anymore without revisting the nightmare that disaster was.

--
Regards,
Savageduck

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 16:23:59 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 13:36:23 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 00:40:28 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-27 16:45:52 -0700, Twibil said:

On May 27, 3:17 pm, Savageduck wrote:
Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. Running from t
he
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.
Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.
Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.
I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.
Easily the best way of outrunning a 'Vette' is to use that radio to
call in help up the road. A nice spike-strip across the road does
wonders, and if you are lucky, you get to see Chevy's famous exploding
plastic car when the driver loses it.
One of the strange things with spike strips, is the amazing ability of
a great variety of vehicles to run considerable distances on rims. The
good thing about the 'vette in this regard, is those rims are not
steel, and they wear down to the disc rotors pretty quickly. Also very
few of those hit with spike strips actually "lose" it, they sort of
grind to a halt, unless they are truly crazy.

The other thing to consider is, gas in a hot running 8 lunger is a
finite commodity.
True, but you need to keep him in sight...
Not quite as difficult as you believe, nowadays.

Fortunately for the most part, the imagined ability of the 'vette
driver to outrun everything, is dampened by his actual ability to do so.
Sometimes dumb luck will out and he will be able to evade, this is an
unusual outcome regardless of the vehicle driven.
If the vehicle is stolen, or hijacked the felon will abandon it as soon
as he believes he can get away, and that usually leads to capture.
If it is an idiot being chased in his own vehicle, he has already
starred in the current video of the day recorded in the majority of
pursuit vehicles, and we will have a pretty good idea of who owns the
car, or who the owner knows is using the car.

Any pursuit confined to surface streets is limited by the environment
and most performance vehicles do not have an advantage over a trained
driver in one of the current Law Enforcement pursuit cruisers, be it
Crown Vic Interceptor (this is not Grand Pa's crown Vic ), or Charger
PD conversion.

If the chase is on limited access highways or freeways, the key is to
keep the chased vehicle on that freeway and monitor exits and
communication between pursuers and dispatch centers. Let him run we
know where he is and ultimately he will be captured. The thing which
compresses time in this scenario, is the threat the chased driver
presents to the public, which might compel officers to take action to
stop the pursuit as soon as possible.

Then depending on location there is that great Law Enforcement tool,
the helicopter.

Traffic, stress and desperation usually leads to mistakes and capture.

Rural roads may be different, but then the communities are small and
the runner if local will eventually be revealed, or is probably already
locally notorious.


I recall seeing a Vette that missed a curve (running from a deputy
Sheriff in Galveston County, Tx.), and went through a barbed wire
fence. The only part of the car, and driver, that was intact enough
to be recognizable was the engine and transmission, that was sitting
about 150 feet out into a pasture. The rest was spread over more than
1/2 acre. The only time I have seen a worse mess was when a jet fighter
crashed directly into the ground, digging a 30 foot hole, and spreading
itself (and the pilot) over a couple of acres of pasture land. The
managed to pick up about 40 lbs of the pilot in a bag. The Vette was
almost as bad.

This was the worst I have ever experienced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_Flight_1771
The hillside was covered in what looked like confetti, there was
nothing vaguely recognizable as human or plane.
That used to be one of my favorite alternate drives to the coast. I
can't do that anymore without revisting the nightmare that disaster was.

The airplane crash happened when I was about 11, but even after
wandering around in the field for a while, and seeing parts of 'organic
matter' all around, and finding it on my shoes later, I never had
nightmares about it. The whole thing was so far from any normal
experience that there was little emotional impact. The 'remains' had
been removed from the car crash site before I got there. Neither site
was on my normal travel routes.

On 2009-05-29 01:06:55 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 16:23:59 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 13:36:23 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 00:40:28 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-27 16:45:52 -0700, Twibil said:

On May 27, 3:17 pm, Savageduck wrote:
Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. Running from t
he
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.
Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.
Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.
I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.
Easily the best way of outrunning a 'Vette' is to use that radio to
call in help up the road. A nice spike-strip across the road does
wonders, and if you are lucky, you get to see Chevy's famous exploding
plastic car when the driver loses it.
One of the strange things with spike strips, is the amazing ability of
a great variety of vehicles to run considerable distances on rims. The
good thing about the 'vette in this regard, is those rims are not
steel, and they wear down to the disc rotors pretty quickly. Also very
few of those hit with spike strips actually "lose" it, they sort of
grind to a halt, unless they are truly crazy.

The other thing to consider is, gas in a hot running 8 lunger is a
finite commodity.
True, but you need to keep him in sight...
Not quite as difficult as you believe, nowadays.

Fortunately for the most part, the imagined ability of the 'vette
driver to outrun everything, is dampened by his actual ability to do so.
Sometimes dumb luck will out and he will be able to evade, this is an
unusual outcome regardless of the vehicle driven.
If the vehicle is stolen, or hijacked the felon will abandon it as soon
as he believes he can get away, and that usually leads to capture.
If it is an idiot being chased in his own vehicle, he has already
starred in the current video of the day recorded in the majority of
pursuit vehicles, and we will have a pretty good idea of who owns the
car, or who the owner knows is using the car.

Any pursuit confined to surface streets is limited by the environment
and most performance vehicles do not have an advantage over a trained
driver in one of the current Law Enforcement pursuit cruisers, be it
Crown Vic Interceptor (this is not Grand Pa's crown Vic ), or Charger
PD conversion.

If the chase is on limited access highways or freeways, the key is to
keep the chased vehicle on that freeway and monitor exits and
communication between pursuers and dispatch centers. Let him run we
know where he is and ultimately he will be captured. The thing which
compresses time in this scenario, is the threat the chased driver
presents to the public, which might compel officers to take action to
stop the pursuit as soon as possible.

Then depending on location there is that great Law Enforcement tool,
the helicopter.

Traffic, stress and desperation usually leads to mistakes and capture.

Rural roads may be different, but then the communities are small and
the runner if local will eventually be revealed, or is probably already
locally notorious.


I recall seeing a Vette that missed a curve (running from a deputy
Sheriff in Galveston County, Tx.), and went through a barbed wire
fence. The only part of the car, and driver, that was intact enough
to be recognizable was the engine and transmission, that was sitting
about 150 feet out into a pasture. The rest was spread over more than
1/2 acre. The only time I have seen a worse mess was when a jet fighter
crashed directly into the ground, digging a 30 foot hole, and spreading
itself (and the pilot) over a couple of acres of pasture land. The
managed to pick up about 40 lbs of the pilot in a bag. The Vette was
almost as bad.

This was the worst I have ever experienced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_Flight_1771
The hillside was covered in what looked like confetti, there was
nothing vaguely recognizable as human or plane.
That used to be one of my favorite alternate drives to the coast. I
can't do that anymore without revisting the nightmare that disaster was.

The airplane crash happened when I was about 11, but even after
wandering around in the field for a while, and seeing parts of 'organic
matter' all around, and finding it on my shoes later, I never had
nightmares about it. The whole thing was so far from any normal
experience that there was little emotional impact. The 'remains' had
been removed from the car crash site before I got there. Neither site
was on my normal travel routes.

The point of impact was on a hill side just 50-60 ft from the road.
The hill is densely forested with California Live Oaks, and the trees
were draped with all sorts of debris. The initial impression was as if
somebody had poured a load of garbage over the trees. Not pleasant at
all.
--
Regards,
Savageduck