Off Topic, but of interest to this group - I hope

Frank Calidonna wrote:
To bad there isn't a newsgroup for rec.photo.philosophy.


http://www.apug.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=50

"Frank Calidonna" wrote in message
...
Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:


I am not sure the 'New Atlantis' web site is I would pick for a
discussion on propaganda and photography. The 'Old Atlantis'
is flaky enough.

The motivation for the article appears to come from Rosen's (quoted):

"The second of the Ten Commandments listed in Exodus 20
warns against idolizing, or even making, graven images:

'Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,
or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath,
or that is in the water under the earth.'"

May as well discuss photography on soc.taliban

* * *

The site this article appears on is a mouthpiece for:

Ethics and Public Policy Center
http://www.eppc.org/

Associated with something called:

Bioethics and American Democracy

They all get their money from ???

I go to the Art & Letters Daily website every morning. They review
books, articles and essays all over the web and post four or five short
descriptions and links every morning. The article on imaging naturally
caught my eye. I realize that New Atlantis is a strange site, but
Rosen's essay and thesis on the detrimental effect on us and our culture
by so many images was interesting. I totally disagree with her about the
detriment, but do agree that photography, printing press and video
technolgies allowing mass distribution of pictures have had a major,
profound effect on us all.

I read and taught for years about art, photography as an art, is it an
art, what is art, etc., etc., etc., blah blah blah. Then Schlain's book
hit me right between the eyes. I was aware of the impact of some photos
on people before that, but his thesis, based on right-brain/left brain
research, that cultures with linear alphabets denigrate the status of
women and that the growth of feminism begins with the advent of both
photgraphy and printing technologies to distribute them was mind shaking
to say the least. As he states he doesn't present a scientic testable
proof just a good court case for his theory. It is quite a book.
That sent me back to reread Marshal McCluan, Sonatg and a few others.
That is where I am at now.

Those of us who use photography for journalism, commercial advertising,
or even our fine art realize (hope) that our pictures can make a
difference to a viewer. The fact that our snapshots are what we grab
when the house is on fire attests to the importance we attach to even
our simplest images. And the fact that everyone here has spent thousand
of hours and dollars learning, creating, traveling, and crafting the
finest images we are capable of producing must mean that pictures mean
quite a lot to us all.

Way back in the fifties in college I remember the emotional and
visceral shock when first seeing photographs by Adams, Weston,
Cunningham and all of the rest ( anyone else old enough to remember when
Popular Photography was a first class magazine?) Gene Smith's pictures
in Life were also formative. So I have always been aware of the effects
of pictures, but never gave much thought to the broad social
consequences of ubiqitous pictures in our culture - or any culture for
that matter.

My other passion besides photography is funerary art. One of the things
that makes colonial gravestones so unique is the fact that the images on
them were carved at the height of the influence of the Puritan
Church.Your biblical quote of "no graven image" was a cornerstone of the
Puritan faith. The stones are equivalent to a member of the Taliban
painting a picture of Allah on his wall. I think the appeal of pictures
is primal.
Frank
For a long time now I've felt that we only think we have a choice. "The
Taliban School of Fine Art" is just as likely as an artist becoming
Taliban. Or a Puritan reading the work of Andy Warhol. I don't believe
things come in segments, or random pieces. You got one, you got them all. I
guess the same thing goes for graven inage. If they don't agree, then it
must not be graven. All the churches are loaded with non-graven images, as
are the houses and even the lawns. Let's face it, it takes a
certain amount of humor to do Art. Especially when you tear up a lot of
your work, or realize it was a bad idea from the get-go, and I really doubt
there are many Taliban comedy clubs. A clue.
Bob Hickey

"Gregory Blank" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Frank Calidonna wrote:

This being the most serious group of photographers (picture makers) that
I find on the web I thought some of you might be interested in an
article on The New Atlantis website:

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/10/rosen.htm

The author, Christine Rosen, contends that our culture is drowning in
images too easily made by anyone and that the net effect is detrimental
to us. Contrast that with Leonard Schlain's book "The Alphabet Vs. The
Goddess" which credits our immersion in images as being very positive
to the point of making feminism possible and you have quite a difference
of opinion. Stir in a lot of Sontag's bs opinions on photography (my
opinion) and the thoughts of others and I think we have an interesting
discussion. To bad there isn't a newsgroup for rec.photo.philosophy.

Anyway I just thought you might be interested what some think of our
imagemaking pursuits.

Frank Rome, NY

I just had a series of these thoughts concerning what imagery has become,
monday I was speaking with an interviewer for a local cable station that
came to interview me regarding my photography and the local gallery show
it will be included in. One of the things we discussed was that now
because of digital photography there is an expectation of instant turn
around of somethings, its also good and bad that the consuming public
can produce good images without a lot of work. But the main thing i
sense is a shorter attention span as a result of the bombardment of
imagery the interviewer agreed but stated he had discussed the same
subject with a colleague and the statement was that people in dealing
with imagery from all directions one would think it would make people
more alert.

I see or believe I do, a direct relation between the photo industry
changing and the changes for the worse in the economy in general..
but maybe I am wrong.

Thanks for the link,...and topic for consideration.
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
What I've noticed mainly is the number of digital mags on the stands
suddenly. My attitude is, how good can all those pictures be? How many
people will be inspired to do tht work. Come to think of it, how many digi
photogs can most people name? I can see the school of a few years in the
future, the answer to everthing is the same; "The camera does that". So who
needs a school? Years ago there were a collection of top notch people doing
Life and Look, now the cover says 8.6 MP. Great. Bob Hickey

"Bob Hickey" wrote

"The Taliban School of Fine Art" is just as likely as an
artist becoming Taliban.

Remember Cat Stevens, er Yusuf Islam. It was the 60's,
lapses of memory understood. I heard he is recording again.

Or a Puritan reading the work of Andy Warhol.

That would be a Priest.

I really doubt there are many Taliban comedy clubs. A clue.

I wholeheartedly agree. By their humor ye shall know them ...

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm

"Bob Hickey" wrote

I can see the school of a few years in the
future, the answer to everything is the same;
"The camera does that"

"The calculator does that, why do I have to learn 'long
division'?"

Of course, to be fair:

"Why do I have to know how to use Napier's rods?
Use a slide rule."

or

"Why don't we just buy them from Kodak, they
coat the plates for you ..."

But, yeah, it feels scary to me -- something important
is no longer. It doesn't help when I realize it is just
me who is no longer. Long division will be
a subject covered in Course 812: Abstract Topics
in Finite Number Theory, 9-10am MW, Coloq. 9-11am Th,
Smith Building 217. Prerequisite: open to
PhD candidates only.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm

In article ,
"Bob Hickey" wrote:

What I've noticed mainly is the number of digital mags on the stands
suddenly. My attitude is, how good can all those pictures be? How many
people will be inspired to do tht work. Come to think of it, how many digi
photogs can most people name? I can see the school of a few years in the
future, the answer to everthing is the same; "The camera does that". So who
needs a school? Years ago there were a collection of top notch people doing
Life and Look, now the cover says 8.6 MP. Great. Bob Hickey

This is my take on it:

Its not just the magazines sold to photographers, a lot of magazines
want digital files from the photographers at the onset. At one point
most did not, mainly because the staff exerted tight control of the
process of putting the publications to print-now some do some perhaps
not.

Of course there are some publications that still hold out like the old
days, I freelance for one that has matter of fact, told me they still
like film. I like film so we are a good match. But I also appreciate
aspects of being digitally enabled.

But Whatever the media when it becomes more important than content
then there is an issue for concern. My chef concerns regarding film a
who handles my film correctly with my lively hood at stake
there are enough worries getting good content without the issue
of loosing ones images to poorly controlled labs. I see it as plus
that labs don't or at least do not have to be factored into this
equation.

After all if one looses sight of what
is important (content) in a skill -(photography) then one has lost one's
vision. So what it boils down to - is society as a whole teaching
that vision & content are important,....my answer is no.
--
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

www.gregblankphoto(dot)com