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There are two truisms in the computer world:



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 17th 18, 02:55 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
ray carter
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Posts: 79
Default There are two truisms in the computer world:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 00:03:45 -0700, RichA wrote:

1. Process descriptions from the software makers NEVER match what you
actually see on-screen.
2. Updates often cause more problems than they address.


Only in the MicroSlop arena. Debian Linux updates/upgrades do no go awry
because they have been thoroughly tested and released only when they are
ready.
  #2  
Old March 17th 18, 03:56 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
David Taylor
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Posts: 1,146
Default There are two truisms in the computer world:

On 17/03/2018 13:55, ray carter wrote:
[] Only in the MicroSlop arena. Debian Linux updates/upgrades do no go awry
because they have been thoroughly tested and released only when they are
ready.


Not in my experience. Serial ports go missing, GPSd stops working, and
one Linux upgrade completely trashed an HD. As any raspberry Pi
upgrader. Version-to-version compatibility is much worse than on
Windows, often requiring the user to recompile the software. I've seen
this with GPSd and NTP. On Windows the same software can easily run on
XP/32 to Win-10/32 with no changes.

Perhaps Linux upgrades "rarely go awry", but not "do no(t) go awry".

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
  #3  
Old March 17th 18, 05:20 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Carlos E.R.
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Posts: 278
Default There are two truisms in the computer world:

On 2018-03-17 15:56, David Taylor wrote:
On 17/03/2018 13:55, ray carter wrote:
[] Only in the MicroSlop arena. Debian Linux updates/upgrades do no go
awry
because they have been thoroughly tested and released only when they are
ready.


Not in my experience.Â* Serial ports go missing, GPSd stops working, and
one Linux upgrade completely trashed an HD.Â* As any raspberry Pi
upgrader.Â* Version-to-version compatibility is much worse than on
Windows, often requiring the user to recompile the software.Â* I've seen
this with GPSd and NTP.Â* On Windows the same software can easily run on
XP/32 to Win-10/32 with no changes.


It took me 3 full days this week to upgrade my Windows partition. Gave
some error code number. Googling it said that perhaps the disk was full
(doesn't the process know if it is?), perhaps a conflict with the
antivirus (doesn't it know), perhaps a conflict with some other thing
(doesn't it know which?).

Advice varied, but most hits (at official Microsoft site) said to go for
a clean boot (which is not a single click), then to run some update
problems wizard. The wizard said that there was a corruption with the
update database that could not be repaired.

It even took hours to download the upgrades with a 300 Mb/s pipe!

After several runs of wizard and updates it worked.

Then it run several more updates and several reboots.

Nightmare.


In comparison, my Linux upgrades (same machine) run smooth, and when
they fail I get to know the exact reason.


Perhaps Linux upgrades "rarely go awry", but not "do no(t) go awry".



--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #4  
Old March 17th 18, 08:01 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
David Taylor
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Posts: 1,146
Default There are two truisms in the computer world:

On 17/03/2018 16:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
[] It took me 3 full days this week to upgrade my Windows partition. Gave
some error code number. Googling it said that perhaps the disk was full
(doesn't the process know if it is?), perhaps a conflict with the
antivirus (doesn't it know), perhaps a conflict with some other thing
(doesn't it know which?).

Advice varied, but most hits (at official Microsoft site) said to go for
a clean boot (which is not a single click), then to run some update
problems wizard. The wizard said that there was a corruption with the
update database that could not be repaired.

It even took hours to download the upgrades with a 300 Mb/s pipe!

After several runs of wizard and updates it worked.

Then it run several more updates and several reboots.

Nightmare.


In comparison, my Linux upgrades (same machine) run smooth, and when
they fail I get to know the exact reason.

===============

I'm sorry to hear that. I'd recommend that you apply updates as soon as
possible, rather than leaving them to a major update.

For comparison, a full Windows Upgrade (which I do once or twice a week
as new "Insider" versions come out) typically take less than three hours
on a nine-year-old dual core laptop with just 2 GB memory. That's with
a 117 GB SSD with 70 GB free.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
  #5  
Old March 17th 18, 08:08 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
David Taylor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,146
Default There are two truisms in the computer world:

On 17/03/2018 16:48, RichA wrote:
[]
I updated one computer to Windows 10. It was so far I thought and error
had happened. Everything seemed fine, until one day the monitor
indicated no signal was coming from the computer. Rebooted and the
computer tried to do "updates" which failed (yet every other online
connection of course had no problems) and the thing, despite attempts at
resolving the issue with multi-layered "fixes" suggested by Windows
power users, the upgrade-fail loop kept going. Finally, it seemed to
resolve itself after 6 hard reboots. What is interesting is the idea
that the average user is going to go into edit registries or type-in
ancient DOS-base command-line codes. This is what keeps places like
Geeksquad in business. No wonder people are deserting in droves to go
to Android/Linux devices or Macs.

... and your documented evidence for your last statement is?

Of course, many people do not /need/ a full OS - something like a table
or Chromebook provides them with a Web browser which provides all their
needs, and for photo editors something like Affinity provides all they
need at a low cost.

I have several computers here running Windows-10, all with the latest
updates, and haven't seen any significant issues. Perhaps I should add
that I also have iOS devices, and some 18 Linux PCs. Decide what you
want to do, and then choose the most appropriate platform.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
  #6  
Old March 17th 18, 08:40 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default There are two truisms in the computer world:

In article , David Taylor
wrote:

For comparison, a full Windows Upgrade (which I do once or twice a week
as new "Insider" versions come out) typically take less than three hours
on a nine-year-old dual core laptop with just 2 GB memory. That's with
a 117 GB SSD with 70 GB free.


a *nine* year old laptop with 2 gig running win 10???
are you ****ing kidding?? do you like pain?

no wonder it takes 3 hours to update.
  #7  
Old March 17th 18, 08:40 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default There are two truisms in the computer world:

In article , David Taylor
wrote:

On 17/03/2018 16:48, RichA wrote:
[]
I updated one computer to Windows 10. It was so far I thought and error
had happened. Everything seemed fine, until one day the monitor
indicated no signal was coming from the computer. Rebooted and the
computer tried to do "updates" which failed (yet every other online
connection of course had no problems) and the thing, despite attempts at
resolving the issue with multi-layered "fixes" suggested by Windows
power users, the upgrade-fail loop kept going. Finally, it seemed to
resolve itself after 6 hard reboots. What is interesting is the idea
that the average user is going to go into edit registries or type-in
ancient DOS-base command-line codes. This is what keeps places like
Geeksquad in business. No wonder people are deserting in droves to go
to Android/Linux devices or Macs.


learn about proper quoting so it's clear rich said that, not you.

.. and your documented evidence for your last statement is?


industry stats.

or just walk past an apple store and a microsoft store. one of them
will be packed with people while the other will not.

Of course, many people do not /need/ a full OS - something like a table
or Chromebook provides them with a Web browser which provides all their
needs, and for photo editors something like Affinity provides all they
need at a low cost.


true, and irrelevant.

I have several computers here running Windows-10, all with the latest
updates, and haven't seen any significant issues. Perhaps I should add
that I also have iOS devices, and some 18 Linux PCs.


so what? what you personally own has nothing to do with market trends.

Decide what you
want to do, and then choose the most appropriate platform.


that part is true.
  #8  
Old March 17th 18, 10:12 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Carlos E.R.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default There are two truisms in the computer world:

On 2018-03-17 20:01, David Taylor wrote:
On 17/03/2018 16:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
[] It took me 3 full days this week to upgrade my Windows partition. Gave
some error code number. Googling it said that perhaps the disk was full
(doesn't the process know if it is?), perhaps a conflict with the
antivirus (doesn't it know), perhaps a conflict with some other thing
(doesn't it know which?).

Advice varied, but most hits (at official Microsoft site) said to go for
a clean boot (which is not a single click), then to run some update
problems wizard. The wizard said that there was a corruption with the
update database that could not be repaired.

It even took hours to download the upgrades with a 300 Mb/s pipe!

After several runs of wizard and updates it worked.

Then it run several more updates and several reboots.

Nightmare.


In comparison, my Linux upgrades (same machine) run smooth, and when
they fail I get to know the exact reason.

===============

I'm sorry to hear that.Â* I'd recommend that you apply updates as soon as
possible, rather than leaving them to a major update.


I don't know when there are updates to do. The computer is normally
running Linux, windows is not booted unless really needed, once a month
or less. As I can not enable or disable the updates, I boot in Windows
only when I have time to spare.

Instead, most of the times I use a virtual Windows machine.


For comparison, a full Windows Upgrade (which I do once or twice a week
as new "Insider" versions come out) typically take less than three hours
on a nine-year-old dual core laptop with just 2 GB memory.Â* That's with
a 117 GB SSD with 70 GB free.


3 hours?

My experience is that Linux updates much faster in the same hardware. I
don't understand why Windows is so slow at updating itself. With fast
internet it can take hours to download, with virtually nil network
activity but high cpu load. What is the problem? Just download the file
in seconds, replace the libraries, done.

Maybe they think that I can be doing other things on the computer while
it updates, but that's not the case. I want to boot, update, power off,
fast, and take the road. At a time of my choosing, not their choosing.

Just talking, doesn't matter :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #9  
Old March 17th 18, 10:21 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
ray carter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default There are two truisms in the computer world:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 14:56:22 +0000, David Taylor wrote:

On 17/03/2018 13:55, ray carter wrote:
[] Only in the MicroSlop arena. Debian Linux updates/upgrades do no go
awry
because they have been thoroughly tested and released only when they
are ready.


Not in my experience. Serial ports go missing, GPSd stops working, and
one Linux upgrade completely trashed an HD. As any raspberry Pi
upgrader. Version-to-version compatibility is much worse than on
Windows, often requiring the user to recompile the software. I've seen
this with GPSd and NTP. On Windows the same software can easily run on
XP/32 to Win-10/32 with no changes.

Perhaps Linux upgrades "rarely go awry", but not "do no(t) go awry".


I did not say linux upgrades rarely go awry - I said Debian linux
upgrades do not go awry and I stand by the statement.
  #10  
Old March 18th 18, 10:57 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
David Taylor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,146
Default There are two truisms in the computer world:

On 17/03/2018 21:21, ray carter wrote:
[]
I did not say linux upgrades rarely go awry - I said Debian linux
upgrades do not go awry and I stand by the statement.


Not true for Raspbian on the Raspberry Pi - I think that's Debian.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
 




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