max. display resolution to come

Martin Trautmann wrote:
Hi all,

what's your guess how far the resolution of displays will be improved?

The current state of the art is about 2.5" and 250 000 pixels.

How are they counted? Is an RGB-pixel counted once or three times?


I'll guess:

* those numbers are real RGB-pixels

No, three times.

* the max. display size won't go much beyond 2.5",
limited by body size.

That's about 1.5" x 2.0" (38 x 50 mm)

* a reasonable max resolution is at about 300 dpi

(this once was a good printing quality, while it might
be insufficient for the close viewing distance on
displays?)

Taking 1.5" x 2.0" @ 300 dpi, that's about 270 000 pixels.
That's less than the VGA resolution: 480 x 640 = 307 200.

The Minolta A2 had a VGA resolution EVF (misleadingly described as
"900,000 pixels" on the camera box). This was a delight to use, and much
better than most cameras. I would like to see something like this as the
minimum standard for an EVF, and would definitely be prepared to pay the
extra (tell me how much first, though!). I don't use the LCD on the back
of the camera much, but the VGA display on the Epson P-2000 is 3.8 inches,
and rather nice. Scaling to 2.5 inches that would give 400,000 individual
pixels (133,000 RGB triplets).

David

In article ,
Martin Trautmann wrote:

[ ... ]

Personally, I want a live view option for a digital slr, including a
flip and twist LCD. Although the viewfinder is much clearer and better
usable under many conditions, there are just too many examples where a
live view (livemonitor?) is useful.

Not really possible with a digital SLR -- unless Cannon applies
the Pellix design to a digital SLR. (The sensor, which P&S digitals use
to both drive the display and to take the photo, is covered by the
mirror and the shutter with a digital SLR, so it receives no light until
the moment of exposure.

Someone posted a pointer to an add-on viewfinder which mounts on
the eyepiece, and looks through the lens as you normally do. That might
be the way to go if you *really* need this.

The Pellix design uses a partially silvered fixed mirror to
deflect a percentage of the light up to the viewfinder, while the
majority of the light goes on through the mirror to reach the film, once
the shutter is opened.

However, aside from having to cycle the shutter to do the
viewfinding with what you want, you also have to stop the lens down to
the proper aperture.

I think that such a system as you propose would make the
camera's behavior un-necessarily sluggish, and *I*, for one, don't want
it. I've had enough of the really sluggish behavior of P&S cameras like
the CoolPix 950 (which was my first digital (though not an SLR), and
which lost me quite a few good shots because of the time it took to do
its autofocus and exposure setting. (Yes, I learned how to work around
that, but I *far* prefer a real SLR -- digital or film.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Martin Trautmann wrote:

On 29 Jun 2005 22:57:18 -0400, DoN. Nichols wrote:

Personally, I want a live view option for a digital slr, including a
flip and twist LCD. Although the viewfinder is much clearer and better
usable under many conditions, there are just too many examples where a
live view (livemonitor?) is useful.

Not really possible with a digital SLR -- unless Cannon applies
the Pellix design to a digital SLR. (The sensor, which P&S digitals use
to both drive the display and to take the photo, is covered by the
mirror and the shutter with a digital SLR, so it receives no light until
the moment of exposure.

In theory options could be

- a secondary sensor. But does it really show the same image as
the image sensor?

- a semitransparent mirror. But does it reduce viewfinder brightness?


The Canon EOS 20Da has live view on the camera's LCD:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0506/05060101canon20da.asp

Martin Trautmann wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:29:28 +0100, Tony Polson wrote:
- a semitransparent mirror. But does it reduce viewfinder brightness?


The Canon EOS 20Da has live view on the camera's LCD:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0506/05060101canon20da.asp

Thanks, I know, there are some. But both this one here, as well as e.g.
the Olympus E-10/E-20 versions seem to be far from perfect.

Is it a semitransparent mirror?: "a partially transmissive mirror"

: Mirror: Quick-return half mirror
: (Transmission: reflection ratio of 40:60, no mirror cut-off with EF
: 600mm f/4 or shorter lens)

Is this a semitransparent mirror now, or is this a mirror lockup - or
both, while the lockup must be used in darkness only?


Who knows?

But this is DPReview, hardly a paragon of accuracy and objectivity.

;-)

In article ,
Tony Polson wrote:
Martin Trautmann wrote:

On 29 Jun 2005 22:57:18 -0400, DoN. Nichols wrote:

Personally, I want a live view option for a digital slr, including a
flip and twist LCD. Although the viewfinder is much clearer and better
usable under many conditions, there are just too many examples where a
live view (livemonitor?) is useful.

Not really possible with a digital SLR -- unless Cannon applies
the Pellix design to a digital SLR. (The sensor, which P&S digitals use
to both drive the display and to take the photo, is covered by the
mirror and the shutter with a digital SLR, so it receives no light until
the moment of exposure.

In theory options could be

- a secondary sensor. But does it really show the same image as
the image sensor?

- a semitransparent mirror. But does it reduce viewfinder brightness?

The Pellix style camera which I suggested above was the first of
Cannon's production cameras with a partially silvered fixed mirror.

The Canon EOS 20Da has live view on the camera's LCD:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0506/05060101canon20da.asp

This is interesting -- but the description seems to be somewhat
self-contradictory.

"In addition the camera has a partially transmissive mirror which
enables live focusing on the LCD monitor (this can only be done
for short times and requires the mirror to be locked up)."

The "partially transmissive mirror" should not "require the mirror to be
locked up".

And the "can only be done for short times" suggests either
overheating in the sensor, or battery life problems, driving that large
a sensor in a continuous operation mode.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

(DoN. Nichols) wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0506/05060101canon20da.asp

This is interesting -- but the description seems to be somewhat
self-contradictory.

"In addition the camera has a partially transmissive mirror which
enables live focusing on the LCD monitor (this can only be done
for short times and requires the mirror to be locked up)."

The "partially transmissive mirror" should not "require the mirror to be
locked up".


Well, that's DPReview for you. The slick, glossy presentation looks
good but the words don't appear to make any sense.

And the "can only be done for short times" suggests either
overheating in the sensor, or battery life problems, driving that large
a sensor in a continuous operation mode.

I would suggest anyone who is interested in the 20Da should not rely
on amateurish review sites, but should contact Canon instead.

"Tony Polson" wrote in message
...
(DoN. Nichols) wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0506/05060101canon20da.asp

This is interesting -- but the description seems to be somewhat
self-contradictory.

"In addition the camera has a partially transmissive mirror which
enables live focusing on the LCD monitor (this can only be done
for short times and requires the mirror to be locked up)."

The "partially transmissive mirror" should not "require the mirror to be
locked up".


Well, that's DPReview for you. The slick, glossy presentation looks
good but the words don't appear to make any sense.

And the "can only be done for short times" suggests either
overheating in the sensor, or battery life problems, driving that large
a sensor in a continuous operation mode.

I would suggest anyone who is interested in the 20Da should not rely
on amateurish review sites, but should contact Canon instead.

DPreview hasn't reviewed the 20Da yet, the info is from Canon's own website.
The "partially transmissive mirror" and rest are on Canon's own review. So
take it up with their translators.

"Martin Trautmann" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 12:29:57 -0400, Darrell wrote:

"Tony Polson" wrote in message
...
(DoN. Nichols) wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0506/05060101canon20da.asp

This is interesting -- but the description seems to be somewhat
self-contradictory.

"In addition the camera has a partially transmissive mirror which
enables live focusing on the LCD monitor (this can only be done
for short times and requires the mirror to be locked up)."

DPreview hasn't reviewed the 20Da yet, the info is from Canon's own
website.
The "partially transmissive mirror" and rest are on Canon's own review.
So
take it up with their translators.

I don't know this from Canon's websites. Did you find it anywhere?
dpreview states its own intro, including this "partially transmissive
mirror" and the 'Press Release' which names mirror lock-up only.

On the other hand I quoted this myself from the Canon specs:
: Mirror: Quick-return half mirror
: (Transmission: reflection ratio of 40:60, no mirror cut-off with EF
: 600mm f/4 or shorter lens)

Looks like partially transmissive, although they didn't explain (or I
did not understand) the purpose. This partially transmissive mirror
seems to be used within the 20D, 300D etc., too, which do not offer live
view.


So dpreview seems to be right that the 20Da includes a partially
transmissive mirror, but got it wrong that this is used for live
preview.

My old manual focus Pentax LX has a semi-transparent mirror as well. It is
used for it's TTL light meter. In the Canon in can be for either the
exposure meter or for auto-focus.

"Darrell" wrote:


DPreview hasn't reviewed the 20Da yet, the info is from Canon's own website.


No it isn't.

The section of text in question is not from Canon, but from DPReview,
and it simply does not make sense.

Martin Trautmann wrote:

On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 11:52:26 +0100, Tony Polson wrote:
Well, that's DPReview for you. The slick, glossy presentation looks
good but the words don't appear to make any sense.

I would suggest anyone who is interested in the 20Da should not rely
on amateurish review sites, but should contact Canon instead.

I would suggest that the makers should provide reasonable infos on their
own.

I remember,
I checked for Konica Minolta image stabilisations,
I checked for Olympus FourThirds,
I checked for 20Da live view.

None of the builders provided reasonable infos online.
KM replied to my direct request - which helped a little, while it did
not clarify the confusion.

Olympus did not reply yet (only a few days ago. I wonder how much they
are still in business).

I did not ask Canon, concerning the live preview. I once asked Canon
about the reason why CD printing is available with European iPs, while
it's disabled for the US market. I did not receive any usable reply that
time.

My summary: you won't get more infos by asking directly. As long as
there are poor infos online, you won't get better infos otherwise.


On the other hand I feel that dpreview gives his best to provide
detailed and rather unbiased comparisons. They provide much better, much
more infos than the maker does and should do.

So personally, I'll take dpreview as the best source up to now. Canon is
not better - or what kind of info could you catch from them? Although
dpreview may be wrong some (or even many) times, what's your
alternative?


There is no alternative. There needs to be one, because a sponsored
web site produced by one individual cannot be considered impartial,
let alone authoritative.

(Thanks for your detailed reply. Very interesting.)