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  #31  
Old November 18th 17, 08:09 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,161
Default Cheap SD Cards

On 11/18/2017 1:05 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 18, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 11/18/2017 12:30 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 18, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 11/17/2017 7:25 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 17, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 11/17/2017 11:56 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 17, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 11/16/2017 10:50 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 16, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):


Sunday I did a quick sunset shoot. Out of 46 images, several had
weird
colors in unusual portions of the images.

That shouldn’t be a problem for you. weird colors in unusual
portions
of
the images should be right in your wheelhouse. ;-)

Not like this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4n3mlqf07qwmt10/_DSC7524.NEF?dl=0

Yup! That looks like a corrupt file issue. As to where that corruption
is
happening one can best surmise that it was the card. However, there can
be
all sorts of causes, mostly due to current, clearing the buffer, and
writing
issues. So it would be best to run a check with a known good performing
card
to eliminate possible issues with the camera.

What was the brand of the card in question, what was its rating, and
which
camera were you using?

D800, and a Delkin Black. I complained to Delkin. They are sending me a
reader, and requested that I test the card with that reader. The shot
you see is a ten shot multiple exposure. I was testing to see how much
time was needed between shots, to get a similar effect to a long
exposure. despite the corruption, my conclusion is that it can be done.
In a calm bay it takes about 2.5 seconds between each shot, for a ten
shot exposure.

What is a Delkin Black?

Delkin Black is meaningless, all that tells us is who the manufacturer is.
What is the actual read/write speed of the card?

Also, because you have somewhat explained what you were doing with
multiple exposures, I suspect that this was just a slow card choking on what was
being fed it, and unable to clear the camera buffer. I have a feeling that if
you just used it to shoot a single exposure there might be no problem at all.
If you are going to use a high performance camera, you should use high
performance cards regardless of how tempting it might be to go the budget
card route.
Google is your friend:
https://www.delkindevices.com/product/black-memory-cards/

...and you have yet to tell us what the actual rating is. Google does not
tell us what is printed on the SD card in your possession.
Which of these Black cards did you buy?


UHS-II. As I said earlier, card speed is not an issue with SD on a D800.
That is not a combination where R/W speed is important.


UHS-II is just a class of card, still no R/W speed. Typically UHS-II cards
are not bargain basement cards, and you describe this particular card as
cheap.


It was cheaper than Sandisk, or Lexar.


Card speed is always an issue D800 or any other camera. R/W speed might not
be that important when shooting normal single shots, but you were engaged in
shooting multiple exposures.


Frame rate, is a different concept that multiple exposure. I was not
doing rapid fire multiple exposures. I was testing the wait times
between each exposure. The object being smoothing water when I didn't
bring an ND filter.
I also use multiple exposure for special effects.
In this one I walked around a tree, and took ten shots. That clearly is
not high speed.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2c7cul49u4jgo9b/tree1024.jpg?dl=0

Getting back to the subject, especially after doing a lot of reading, I
am probably going to stick to Sandisk, for my high frame rate shots, and
either Sandisk, or Lexar for all others.



--
PeterN
  #32  
Old November 18th 17, 10:57 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Cheap SD Cards

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 10:05:55 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Nov 18, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 11/18/2017 12:30 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 18, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 11/17/2017 7:25 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 17, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 11/17/2017 11:56 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 17, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 11/16/2017 10:50 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 16, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):


Sunday I did a quick sunset shoot. Out of 46 images, several had
weird
colors in unusual portions of the images.

That shouldn’t be a problem for you. weird colors in unusual
portions
of
the images should be right in your wheelhouse. ;-)

Not like this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4n3mlqf07qwmt10/_DSC7524.NEF?dl=0

Yup! That looks like a corrupt file issue. As to where that corruption
is
happening one can best surmise that it was the card. However, there can
be
all sorts of causes, mostly due to current, clearing the buffer, and
writing
issues. So it would be best to run a check with a known good performing
card
to eliminate possible issues with the camera.

What was the brand of the card in question, what was its rating, and
which
camera were you using?

D800, and a Delkin Black. I complained to Delkin. They are sending me a
reader, and requested that I test the card with that reader. The shot
you see is a ten shot multiple exposure. I was testing to see how much
time was needed between shots, to get a similar effect to a long
exposure. despite the corruption, my conclusion is that it can be done.
In a calm bay it takes about 2.5 seconds between each shot, for a ten
shot exposure.

What is a Delkin Black?

Delkin Black is meaningless, all that tells us is who the manufacturer is.
What is the actual read/write speed of the card?

Also, because you have somewhat explained what you were doing with
multiple exposures, I suspect that this was just a slow card choking on what was
being fed it, and unable to clear the camera buffer. I have a feeling that if
you just used it to shoot a single exposure there might be no problem at all.
If you are going to use a high performance camera, you should use high
performance cards regardless of how tempting it might be to go the budget
card route.
Google is your friend:
https://www.delkindevices.com/product/black-memory-cards/

...and you have yet to tell us what the actual rating is. Google does not
tell us what is printed on the SD card in your possession.
Which of these Black cards did you buy?


UHS-II. As I said earlier, card speed is not an issue with SD on a D800.
That is not a combination where R/W speed is important.


UHS-II is just a class of card, still no R/W speed. Typically UHS-II cards
are not bargain basement cards, and you describe this particular card as
cheap.

Card speed is always an issue D800 or any other camera. R/W speed might not
be that important when shooting normal single shots, but you were engaged in
shooting multiple exposures.


Does this throw any light on the card requirements?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #33  
Old November 19th 17, 12:46 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Cheap SD Cards

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 10:05:55 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Nov 18, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 11/18/2017 12:30 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 18, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 11/17/2017 7:25 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 17, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 11/17/2017 11:56 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 17, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 11/16/2017 10:50 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 16, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):


Sunday I did a quick sunset shoot. Out of 46 images, several had
weird
colors in unusual portions of the images.

That shouldn’t be a problem for you. weird colors in unusual
portions
of
the images should be right in your wheelhouse. ;-)

Not like this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4n3mlqf07qwmt10/_DSC7524.NEF?dl=0

Yup! That looks like a corrupt file issue. As to where that corruption
is
happening one can best surmise that it was the card. However, there can
be
all sorts of causes, mostly due to current, clearing the buffer, and
writing
issues. So it would be best to run a check with a known good performing
card
to eliminate possible issues with the camera.

What was the brand of the card in question, what was its rating, and
which
camera were you using?

D800, and a Delkin Black. I complained to Delkin. They are sending me a
reader, and requested that I test the card with that reader. The shot
you see is a ten shot multiple exposure. I was testing to see how much
time was needed between shots, to get a similar effect to a long
exposure. despite the corruption, my conclusion is that it can be done.
In a calm bay it takes about 2.5 seconds between each shot, for a ten
shot exposure.

What is a Delkin Black?

Delkin Black is meaningless, all that tells us is who the manufacturer is.
What is the actual read/write speed of the card?

Also, because you have somewhat explained what you were doing with
multiple exposures, I suspect that this was just a slow card choking on what was
being fed it, and unable to clear the camera buffer. I have a feeling that if
you just used it to shoot a single exposure there might be no problem at all.
If you are going to use a high performance camera, you should use high
performance cards regardless of how tempting it might be to go the budget
card route.
Google is your friend:
https://www.delkindevices.com/product/black-memory-cards/

...and you have yet to tell us what the actual rating is. Google does not
tell us what is printed on the SD card in your possession.
Which of these Black cards did you buy?

UHS-II. As I said earlier, card speed is not an issue with SD on a D800.
That is not a combination where R/W speed is important.


UHS-II is just a class of card, still no R/W speed. Typically UHS-II cards
are not bargain basement cards, and you describe this particular card as
cheap.

Card speed is always an issue D800 or any other camera. R/W speed might not
be that important when shooting normal single shots, but you were engaged in
shooting multiple exposures.


Does this throw any light on the card requirements?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0


Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be
used"?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #34  
Old November 19th 17, 01:31 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Cheap SD Cards

On Nov 18, 2017, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:


Snip

Does this throw any light on the card requirements?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0


Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be
used"?


Yup!

So now we know, the problem was, Peter was using a card which the D800
couldn't support. This time he actually had too much card for the camera.

There is nothing wrong with the card, and he should be able to use it in his
D500. That will handle UHS-II cards.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

  #35  
Old November 19th 17, 02:48 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Bill W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,692
Default Cheap SD Cards

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 16:31:39 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Nov 18, 2017, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:


Snip

Does this throw any light on the card requirements?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0


Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be
used"?


Yup!


I don't think so. UHS cards are much faster than earlier cards with
"Class" ratings. And "Type 2" refers only to CF cards.

https://havecamerawilltravel.com/pho...microsd-cards/

So now we know, the problem was, Peter was using a card which the D800
couldn't support. This time he actually had too much card for the camera.

There is nothing wrong with the card, and he should be able to use it in his
D500. That will handle UHS-II cards.


UHS2 is backwards compatible with UHS1, but there can be issues in
card readers that aren't set up for 2, just like Peter was told. I
still wouldn't be surprised if the problem arose from multiple
exposures, and some possibility that the backward compatibility
induced problems. There are more contacts on UHS2 cards, and contact
placement in the camera might be an issue. If I were Peter, I might
stick with UHS1.
  #36  
Old November 19th 17, 02:54 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,161
Default Cheap SD Cards

On 11/18/2017 7:31 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 18, 2017, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:


Snip

Does this throw any light on the card requirements?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0


Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be
used"?


Yup!

So now we know, the problem was, Peter was using a card which the D800
couldn't support. This time he actually had too much card for the camera.

There is nothing wrong with the card, and he should be able to use it in his
D500. That will handle UHS-II cards.

For other reasons, I had decided not to do business with the local store
who sold me the Delkin, knowing it was for the D800.
The Delkin was manufactured long after the D800 manual was printed.
However, I am not taking any chances. That card has been trashed.
I will be talking to Nikon support about this question.

BTW. This article implies backward compatibility:
http://www.electronicdesign.com/memory/whats-difference-between-sd-and-uhs-ii-memory-cards


--
PeterN
  #37  
Old November 19th 17, 03:14 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,161
Default Cheap SD Cards

On 11/18/2017 8:48 PM, Bill W wrote:
On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 16:31:39 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Nov 18, 2017, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:


Snip

Does this throw any light on the card requirements?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0

Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be
used"?


Yup!


I don't think so. UHS cards are much faster than earlier cards with
"Class" ratings. And "Type 2" refers only to CF cards.

https://havecamerawilltravel.com/pho...microsd-cards/

So now we know, the problem was, Peter was using a card which the D800
couldn't support. This time he actually had too much card for the camera.

There is nothing wrong with the card, and he should be able to use it in his
D500. That will handle UHS-II cards.


UHS2 is backwards compatible with UHS1, but there can be issues in
card readers that aren't set up for 2, just like Peter was told. I
still wouldn't be surprised if the problem arose from multiple
exposures, and some possibility that the backward compatibility
induced problems. There are more contacts on UHS2 cards, and contact
placement in the camera might be an issue. If I were Peter, I might
stick with UHS1.


For reasons previously stated, multiple exposure had nothing to do with
the issue.
I certainly intend to stick with UHS1 on the D800.


--
PeterN
  #38  
Old November 19th 17, 03:15 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Cheap SD Cards

On Nov 18, 2017, Bill W wrote
(in ):

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 16:31:39 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Nov 18, 2017, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:


Snip

Does this throw any light on the card requirements?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0

Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be
used"?


Yup!


I don't think so. UHS cards are much faster than earlier cards with
"Class" ratings. And "Type 2" refers only to CF cards.

https://havecamerawilltravel.com/pho...-microsd-cards
/


Much of that is true. However, there are times that the camera manufacturers
can screw things up for the user. I have been fortunate in that I haven’t
pushed things with my D300S keeping the UDMA CF, and moderately speced SD
cards.

With my Fujifilm X-T2 I have two UHS-II SD slots, and I use 300MB/s UHS-II in
that exclusively. I shoot RAW+Fine JPEG writing RAF to card #1, and JPEG to
card #2.

I have used the UHS-II cards in my X-E2 which is a UHS-I camera, and I have
not experienced any issues. So for that camera, at least, the bacjkward
compatibility does work.

So now we know, the problem was, Peter was using a card which the D800
couldn't support. This time he actually had too much card for the camera.

There is nothing wrong with the card, and he should be able to use it in his
D500. That will handle UHS-II cards.


UHS2 is backwards compatible with UHS1, but there can be issues in
card readers that aren't set up for 2, just like Peter was told. I
still wouldn't be surprised if the problem arose from multiple
exposures, and some possibility that the backward compatibility
induced problems. There are more contacts on UHS2 cards, and contact
placement in the camera might be an issue. If I were Peter, I might
stick with UHS1.


All, or much of your argument is valid, and I believe your final conclusion
is correct, that Peter should stick with UHS-I in his D800. This is a classic
case of the support requirements of the camera being misunderstood, not
known,or ignored, or backward compatibility of the UHS-II not valid with the
D800.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

  #39  
Old November 19th 17, 03:36 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Cheap SD Cards

On Nov 18, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 11/18/2017 7:31 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 18, 2017, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:


Snip

Does this throw any light on the card requirements?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0

Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be
used"?


Yup!

So now we know, the problem was, Peter was using a card which the D800
couldn't support. This time he actually had too much card for the camera.

There is nothing wrong with the card, and he should be able to use it in his
D500. That will handle UHS-II cards.

For other reasons, I had decided not to do business with the local store
who sold me the Delkin, knowing it was for the D800.
The Delkin was manufactured long after the D800 manual was printed.
However, I am not taking any chances. That card has been trashed.
I will be talking to Nikon support about this question.


It should work fine in your D500. I hope that was just a figurative trashing.

BTW. This article implies backward compatibility:
http://www.electronicdesign.com/memo...-sd-and-uhs-ii
-memory-cards


--

Regards,
Savageduck

  #40  
Old November 19th 17, 05:26 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Bill W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,692
Default Cheap SD Cards

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 21:14:26 -0500, PeterN
wrote:

On 11/18/2017 8:48 PM, Bill W wrote:
On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 16:31:39 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Nov 18, 2017, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:

Snip

Does this throw any light on the card requirements?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0

Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be
used"?

Yup!


I don't think so. UHS cards are much faster than earlier cards with
"Class" ratings. And "Type 2" refers only to CF cards.

https://havecamerawilltravel.com/pho...microsd-cards/

So now we know, the problem was, Peter was using a card which the D800
couldn't support. This time he actually had too much card for the camera.

There is nothing wrong with the card, and he should be able to use it in his
D500. That will handle UHS-II cards.


UHS2 is backwards compatible with UHS1, but there can be issues in
card readers that aren't set up for 2, just like Peter was told. I
still wouldn't be surprised if the problem arose from multiple
exposures, and some possibility that the backward compatibility
induced problems. There are more contacts on UHS2 cards, and contact
placement in the camera might be an issue. If I were Peter, I might
stick with UHS1.


For reasons previously stated, multiple exposure had nothing to do with
the issue.
I certainly intend to stick with UHS1 on the D800.


I'm still not so sure. The possible fact that some multiple exposures
were fine means nothing at all. But if all single exposures were good,
and all the bad files just happened to be multiple exposures, that
might be the problem. At the same time, if you copied the files to
disk before opening them, and then they all opened fine in some
software (which your original post seemed to indicate), or if you were
opening them directly from the card reader, Delkin might be right that
there is a problem with your card reader. Did you get and try the new
reader yet? I would certainly hang onto that card until you test it
again. They are good cards from what I can see.

Anyway, whenever I have a strange result like you got, the first thing
I do is go over what I did differently. The first is multiple
exposures, and second is plugging a UHS2 card into a UHS1 socket. Even
though there should be no problems with either, they are what I would
blame first, and blame the card itself last.


 




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