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#31
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Cheap SD Cards
On 11/18/2017 1:05 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 18, 2017, PeterN wrote (in article ): On 11/18/2017 12:30 PM, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 18, 2017, PeterN wrote (in article ): On 11/17/2017 7:25 PM, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 17, 2017, PeterN wrote (in article ): On 11/17/2017 11:56 AM, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 17, 2017, PeterN wrote (in article ): On 11/16/2017 10:50 PM, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 16, 2017, PeterN wrote (in article ): Sunday I did a quick sunset shoot. Out of 46 images, several had weird colors in unusual portions of the images. That shouldn’t be a problem for you. weird colors in unusual portions of the images should be right in your wheelhouse. ;-) Not like this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4n3mlqf07qwmt10/_DSC7524.NEF?dl=0 Yup! That looks like a corrupt file issue. As to where that corruption is happening one can best surmise that it was the card. However, there can be all sorts of causes, mostly due to current, clearing the buffer, and writing issues. So it would be best to run a check with a known good performing card to eliminate possible issues with the camera. What was the brand of the card in question, what was its rating, and which camera were you using? D800, and a Delkin Black. I complained to Delkin. They are sending me a reader, and requested that I test the card with that reader. The shot you see is a ten shot multiple exposure. I was testing to see how much time was needed between shots, to get a similar effect to a long exposure. despite the corruption, my conclusion is that it can be done. In a calm bay it takes about 2.5 seconds between each shot, for a ten shot exposure. What is a Delkin Black? Delkin Black is meaningless, all that tells us is who the manufacturer is. What is the actual read/write speed of the card? Also, because you have somewhat explained what you were doing with multiple exposures, I suspect that this was just a slow card choking on what was being fed it, and unable to clear the camera buffer. I have a feeling that if you just used it to shoot a single exposure there might be no problem at all. If you are going to use a high performance camera, you should use high performance cards regardless of how tempting it might be to go the budget card route. Google is your friend: https://www.delkindevices.com/product/black-memory-cards/ ...and you have yet to tell us what the actual rating is. Google does not tell us what is printed on the SD card in your possession. Which of these Black cards did you buy? UHS-II. As I said earlier, card speed is not an issue with SD on a D800. That is not a combination where R/W speed is important. UHS-II is just a class of card, still no R/W speed. Typically UHS-II cards are not bargain basement cards, and you describe this particular card as cheap. It was cheaper than Sandisk, or Lexar. Card speed is always an issue D800 or any other camera. R/W speed might not be that important when shooting normal single shots, but you were engaged in shooting multiple exposures. Frame rate, is a different concept that multiple exposure. I was not doing rapid fire multiple exposures. I was testing the wait times between each exposure. The object being smoothing water when I didn't bring an ND filter. I also use multiple exposure for special effects. In this one I walked around a tree, and took ten shots. That clearly is not high speed. https://www.dropbox.com/s/2c7cul49u4jgo9b/tree1024.jpg?dl=0 Getting back to the subject, especially after doing a lot of reading, I am probably going to stick to Sandisk, for my high frame rate shots, and either Sandisk, or Lexar for all others. -- PeterN |
#32
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Cheap SD Cards
On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 10:05:55 -0800, Savageduck
wrote: On Nov 18, 2017, PeterN wrote (in article ): On 11/18/2017 12:30 PM, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 18, 2017, PeterN wrote (in article ): On 11/17/2017 7:25 PM, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 17, 2017, PeterN wrote (in article ): On 11/17/2017 11:56 AM, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 17, 2017, PeterN wrote (in article ): On 11/16/2017 10:50 PM, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 16, 2017, PeterN wrote (in article ): Sunday I did a quick sunset shoot. Out of 46 images, several had weird colors in unusual portions of the images. That shouldn’t be a problem for you. weird colors in unusual portions of the images should be right in your wheelhouse. ;-) Not like this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4n3mlqf07qwmt10/_DSC7524.NEF?dl=0 Yup! That looks like a corrupt file issue. As to where that corruption is happening one can best surmise that it was the card. However, there can be all sorts of causes, mostly due to current, clearing the buffer, and writing issues. So it would be best to run a check with a known good performing card to eliminate possible issues with the camera. What was the brand of the card in question, what was its rating, and which camera were you using? D800, and a Delkin Black. I complained to Delkin. They are sending me a reader, and requested that I test the card with that reader. The shot you see is a ten shot multiple exposure. I was testing to see how much time was needed between shots, to get a similar effect to a long exposure. despite the corruption, my conclusion is that it can be done. In a calm bay it takes about 2.5 seconds between each shot, for a ten shot exposure. What is a Delkin Black? Delkin Black is meaningless, all that tells us is who the manufacturer is. What is the actual read/write speed of the card? Also, because you have somewhat explained what you were doing with multiple exposures, I suspect that this was just a slow card choking on what was being fed it, and unable to clear the camera buffer. I have a feeling that if you just used it to shoot a single exposure there might be no problem at all. If you are going to use a high performance camera, you should use high performance cards regardless of how tempting it might be to go the budget card route. Google is your friend: https://www.delkindevices.com/product/black-memory-cards/ ...and you have yet to tell us what the actual rating is. Google does not tell us what is printed on the SD card in your possession. Which of these Black cards did you buy? UHS-II. As I said earlier, card speed is not an issue with SD on a D800. That is not a combination where R/W speed is important. UHS-II is just a class of card, still no R/W speed. Typically UHS-II cards are not bargain basement cards, and you describe this particular card as cheap. Card speed is always an issue D800 or any other camera. R/W speed might not be that important when shooting normal single shots, but you were engaged in shooting multiple exposures. Does this throw any light on the card requirements? https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0 -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#33
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Cheap SD Cards
On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote: On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 10:05:55 -0800, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 18, 2017, PeterN wrote (in article ): On 11/18/2017 12:30 PM, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 18, 2017, PeterN wrote (in article ): On 11/17/2017 7:25 PM, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 17, 2017, PeterN wrote (in article ): On 11/17/2017 11:56 AM, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 17, 2017, PeterN wrote (in article ): On 11/16/2017 10:50 PM, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 16, 2017, PeterN wrote (in article ): Sunday I did a quick sunset shoot. Out of 46 images, several had weird colors in unusual portions of the images. That shouldn’t be a problem for you. weird colors in unusual portions of the images should be right in your wheelhouse. ;-) Not like this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4n3mlqf07qwmt10/_DSC7524.NEF?dl=0 Yup! That looks like a corrupt file issue. As to where that corruption is happening one can best surmise that it was the card. However, there can be all sorts of causes, mostly due to current, clearing the buffer, and writing issues. So it would be best to run a check with a known good performing card to eliminate possible issues with the camera. What was the brand of the card in question, what was its rating, and which camera were you using? D800, and a Delkin Black. I complained to Delkin. They are sending me a reader, and requested that I test the card with that reader. The shot you see is a ten shot multiple exposure. I was testing to see how much time was needed between shots, to get a similar effect to a long exposure. despite the corruption, my conclusion is that it can be done. In a calm bay it takes about 2.5 seconds between each shot, for a ten shot exposure. What is a Delkin Black? Delkin Black is meaningless, all that tells us is who the manufacturer is. What is the actual read/write speed of the card? Also, because you have somewhat explained what you were doing with multiple exposures, I suspect that this was just a slow card choking on what was being fed it, and unable to clear the camera buffer. I have a feeling that if you just used it to shoot a single exposure there might be no problem at all. If you are going to use a high performance camera, you should use high performance cards regardless of how tempting it might be to go the budget card route. Google is your friend: https://www.delkindevices.com/product/black-memory-cards/ ...and you have yet to tell us what the actual rating is. Google does not tell us what is printed on the SD card in your possession. Which of these Black cards did you buy? UHS-II. As I said earlier, card speed is not an issue with SD on a D800. That is not a combination where R/W speed is important. UHS-II is just a class of card, still no R/W speed. Typically UHS-II cards are not bargain basement cards, and you describe this particular card as cheap. Card speed is always an issue D800 or any other camera. R/W speed might not be that important when shooting normal single shots, but you were engaged in shooting multiple exposures. Does this throw any light on the card requirements? https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0 Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be used"? -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#34
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Cheap SD Cards
On Nov 18, 2017, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ): On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens wrote: Snip Does this throw any light on the card requirements? https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0 Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be used"? Yup! So now we know, the problem was, Peter was using a card which the D800 couldn't support. This time he actually had too much card for the camera. There is nothing wrong with the card, and he should be able to use it in his D500. That will handle UHS-II cards. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#35
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Cheap SD Cards
On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 16:31:39 -0800, Savageduck
wrote: On Nov 18, 2017, Eric Stevens wrote (in ): On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens wrote: Snip Does this throw any light on the card requirements? https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0 Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be used"? Yup! I don't think so. UHS cards are much faster than earlier cards with "Class" ratings. And "Type 2" refers only to CF cards. https://havecamerawilltravel.com/pho...microsd-cards/ So now we know, the problem was, Peter was using a card which the D800 couldn't support. This time he actually had too much card for the camera. There is nothing wrong with the card, and he should be able to use it in his D500. That will handle UHS-II cards. UHS2 is backwards compatible with UHS1, but there can be issues in card readers that aren't set up for 2, just like Peter was told. I still wouldn't be surprised if the problem arose from multiple exposures, and some possibility that the backward compatibility induced problems. There are more contacts on UHS2 cards, and contact placement in the camera might be an issue. If I were Peter, I might stick with UHS1. |
#36
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Cheap SD Cards
On 11/18/2017 7:31 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Nov 18, 2017, Eric Stevens wrote (in ): On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens wrote: Snip Does this throw any light on the card requirements? https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0 Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be used"? Yup! So now we know, the problem was, Peter was using a card which the D800 couldn't support. This time he actually had too much card for the camera. There is nothing wrong with the card, and he should be able to use it in his D500. That will handle UHS-II cards. For other reasons, I had decided not to do business with the local store who sold me the Delkin, knowing it was for the D800. The Delkin was manufactured long after the D800 manual was printed. However, I am not taking any chances. That card has been trashed. I will be talking to Nikon support about this question. BTW. This article implies backward compatibility: http://www.electronicdesign.com/memory/whats-difference-between-sd-and-uhs-ii-memory-cards -- PeterN |
#37
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Cheap SD Cards
On 11/18/2017 8:48 PM, Bill W wrote:
On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 16:31:39 -0800, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 18, 2017, Eric Stevens wrote (in ): On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens wrote: Snip Does this throw any light on the card requirements? https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0 Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be used"? Yup! I don't think so. UHS cards are much faster than earlier cards with "Class" ratings. And "Type 2" refers only to CF cards. https://havecamerawilltravel.com/pho...microsd-cards/ So now we know, the problem was, Peter was using a card which the D800 couldn't support. This time he actually had too much card for the camera. There is nothing wrong with the card, and he should be able to use it in his D500. That will handle UHS-II cards. UHS2 is backwards compatible with UHS1, but there can be issues in card readers that aren't set up for 2, just like Peter was told. I still wouldn't be surprised if the problem arose from multiple exposures, and some possibility that the backward compatibility induced problems. There are more contacts on UHS2 cards, and contact placement in the camera might be an issue. If I were Peter, I might stick with UHS1. For reasons previously stated, multiple exposure had nothing to do with the issue. I certainly intend to stick with UHS1 on the D800. -- PeterN |
#38
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Cheap SD Cards
On Nov 18, 2017, Bill W wrote
(in ): On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 16:31:39 -0800, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 18, 2017, Eric Stevens wrote (in ): On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens wrote: Snip Does this throw any light on the card requirements? https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0 Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be used"? Yup! I don't think so. UHS cards are much faster than earlier cards with "Class" ratings. And "Type 2" refers only to CF cards. https://havecamerawilltravel.com/pho...-microsd-cards / Much of that is true. However, there are times that the camera manufacturers can screw things up for the user. I have been fortunate in that I haven’t pushed things with my D300S keeping the UDMA CF, and moderately speced SD cards. With my Fujifilm X-T2 I have two UHS-II SD slots, and I use 300MB/s UHS-II in that exclusively. I shoot RAW+Fine JPEG writing RAF to card #1, and JPEG to card #2. I have used the UHS-II cards in my X-E2 which is a UHS-I camera, and I have not experienced any issues. So for that camera, at least, the bacjkward compatibility does work. So now we know, the problem was, Peter was using a card which the D800 couldn't support. This time he actually had too much card for the camera. There is nothing wrong with the card, and he should be able to use it in his D500. That will handle UHS-II cards. UHS2 is backwards compatible with UHS1, but there can be issues in card readers that aren't set up for 2, just like Peter was told. I still wouldn't be surprised if the problem arose from multiple exposures, and some possibility that the backward compatibility induced problems. There are more contacts on UHS2 cards, and contact placement in the camera might be an issue. If I were Peter, I might stick with UHS1. All, or much of your argument is valid, and I believe your final conclusion is correct, that Peter should stick with UHS-I in his D800. This is a classic case of the support requirements of the camera being misunderstood, not known,or ignored, or backward compatibility of the UHS-II not valid with the D800. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#39
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Cheap SD Cards
On Nov 18, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ): On 11/18/2017 7:31 PM, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 18, 2017, Eric Stevens wrote (in ): On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens wrote: Snip Does this throw any light on the card requirements? https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0 Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be used"? Yup! So now we know, the problem was, Peter was using a card which the D800 couldn't support. This time he actually had too much card for the camera. There is nothing wrong with the card, and he should be able to use it in his D500. That will handle UHS-II cards. For other reasons, I had decided not to do business with the local store who sold me the Delkin, knowing it was for the D800. The Delkin was manufactured long after the D800 manual was printed. However, I am not taking any chances. That card has been trashed. I will be talking to Nikon support about this question. It should work fine in your D500. I hope that was just a figurative trashing. BTW. This article implies backward compatibility: http://www.electronicdesign.com/memo...-sd-and-uhs-ii -memory-cards -- Regards, Savageduck |
#40
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Cheap SD Cards
On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 21:14:26 -0500, PeterN
wrote: On 11/18/2017 8:48 PM, Bill W wrote: On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 16:31:39 -0800, Savageduck wrote: On Nov 18, 2017, Eric Stevens wrote (in ): On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:57:11 +1300, Eric Stevens wrote: Snip Does this throw any light on the card requirements? https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a9lvyuhcy...Cards.jpg?dl=0 Is a UHS-II card a "Type II card" which the manual says "cannot be used"? Yup! I don't think so. UHS cards are much faster than earlier cards with "Class" ratings. And "Type 2" refers only to CF cards. https://havecamerawilltravel.com/pho...microsd-cards/ So now we know, the problem was, Peter was using a card which the D800 couldn't support. This time he actually had too much card for the camera. There is nothing wrong with the card, and he should be able to use it in his D500. That will handle UHS-II cards. UHS2 is backwards compatible with UHS1, but there can be issues in card readers that aren't set up for 2, just like Peter was told. I still wouldn't be surprised if the problem arose from multiple exposures, and some possibility that the backward compatibility induced problems. There are more contacts on UHS2 cards, and contact placement in the camera might be an issue. If I were Peter, I might stick with UHS1. For reasons previously stated, multiple exposure had nothing to do with the issue. I certainly intend to stick with UHS1 on the D800. I'm still not so sure. The possible fact that some multiple exposures were fine means nothing at all. But if all single exposures were good, and all the bad files just happened to be multiple exposures, that might be the problem. At the same time, if you copied the files to disk before opening them, and then they all opened fine in some software (which your original post seemed to indicate), or if you were opening them directly from the card reader, Delkin might be right that there is a problem with your card reader. Did you get and try the new reader yet? I would certainly hang onto that card until you test it again. They are good cards from what I can see. Anyway, whenever I have a strange result like you got, the first thing I do is go over what I did differently. The first is multiple exposures, and second is plugging a UHS2 card into a UHS1 socket. Even though there should be no problems with either, they are what I would blame first, and blame the card itself last. |
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