Paintshop and Corel

On 2013-11-16 23:23:32 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 20:46:22 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

Also, if Eric does decide to go with the CC program he should have LR
in that package and the PS-LR integration is seamless and symbiotic
giving him all the tools he would need.

If I can confirm that the price I saw yesterday is for the package you
have just described I'm signing up this afternoon. :-)

Have fun.
If you really mean "this afternoon" you should be downloading right now. ;-)

Since you are new to Photoshop and Lightroom I suggest you take a look
at some of the tutorial/feature videos available.

Julieanne Kost has both LR and Photoshop stuff on this site:
http://www.jkost.com/lightroom.html

Kloskowski's LR killer tips:
http://lightroomkillertips.com

....and Russell Brown's stuff:
http://tv.adobe.com/show/the-russell-brown-show/

That should get you started.


If you have Skype installed on your computer I would be more than happy
to demonstrate my basic workflow via screen share.
Let me know and we can make arrangements via email.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 15:52:40 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2013-11-16 23:23:32 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 20:46:22 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

Also, if Eric does decide to go with the CC program he should have LR
in that package and the PS-LR integration is seamless and symbiotic
giving him all the tools he would need.

If I can confirm that the price I saw yesterday is for the package you
have just described I'm signing up this afternoon. :-)

Have fun.
If you really mean "this afternoon" you should be downloading right now. ;-)

Since you are new to Photoshop and Lightroom I suggest you take a look
at some of the tutorial/feature videos available.

Julieanne Kost has both LR and Photoshop stuff on this site:
http://www.jkost.com/lightroom.html

Kloskowski's LR killer tips:
http://lightroomkillertips.com

...and Russell Brown's stuff:
http://tv.adobe.com/show/the-russell-brown-show/

That should get you started.

Thanks for that list. I'm already trying to get a second identical
screen to the one I presently have so as to get the best advantage out
of tutorials. I have found one but the present owner has an inflated
idea of it's worth.


If you have Skype installed on your computer I would be more than happy
to demonstrate my basic workflow via screen share.
Let me know and we can make arrangements via email.

I did hnave Skype but kicked it out as no one used it. I won't be in a
position to do much with anything for the next few weeks/months as I'm
about to engage in an another bout of leg carving. But thanks for the
offer. In the meantime, I will see where I get with the tutorials.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 2013-11-17 01:24:00 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 15:52:40 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2013-11-16 23:23:32 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 20:46:22 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

Also, if Eric does decide to go with the CC program he should have LR
in that package and the PS-LR integration is seamless and symbiotic
giving him all the tools he would need.

If I can confirm that the price I saw yesterday is for the package you
have just described I'm signing up this afternoon. :-)

Have fun.
If you really mean "this afternoon" you should be downloading right now. ;-)

Since you are new to Photoshop and Lightroom I suggest you take a look
at some of the tutorial/feature videos available.

Julieanne Kost has both LR and Photoshop stuff on this site:
http://www.jkost.com/lightroom.html

Kloskowski's LR killer tips:
http://lightroomkillertips.com

...and Russell Brown's stuff:
http://tv.adobe.com/show/the-russell-brown-show/

That should get you started.

Thanks for that list. I'm already trying to get a second identical
screen to the one I presently have so as to get the best advantage out
of tutorials. I have found one but the present owner has an inflated
idea of it's worth.


If you have Skype installed on your computer I would be more than happy
to demonstrate my basic workflow via screen share.
Let me know and we can make arrangements via email.

I did hnave Skype but kicked it out as no one used it.

Hey! I use it, I also use Apple's "Facetime" (not Facebook), Alan
Browne uses it, I believe Tony Cooper uses it.
As far a screen sharing goes, I use that quite often with a fiend in
Nashville and with my father when it is easier to show how to do
something than to explain it without the demonstration.
You probably still have the account & "Skype name" Just reinstall the
app. It is free unless you use it for a lot of "Skype-out" calls.
A quick search of Skype accounts shows 4 versions of Eric Stevens in NZ
One of then from Hamilton seems to have two accounts (one for his
iPhone) there is one in an undisclosed NZ location, and one in Auckland.

BTW: with your iPad you should have an Apple ID so Facetime is another
communication method you could use. It just doesn't have the screen
sharing feature that Skype has.

I won't be in a position to do much with anything for the next few
weeks/months as I'm
about to engage in an another bout of leg carving. But thanks for the
offer. In the meantime, I will see where I get with the tutorials.

Consider that part of your therapy. Just get whatever you need to get
done to get back on your feet.

BTW: my cousin's son (I guess that makes him my cousin once removed)
and his wife are doctors in your part of the World. He is a pathologist
and she is a shrink, down in the Tauranga area.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 11/16/2013 3:48 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2013-11-16 20:10:51 +0000, PeterN said:

On 11/16/2013 2:31 PM, MI wrote:



On 11/16/13 10:49 AM, in article
2013111610494361729-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck"
wrote:

On 2013-11-16 18:32:59 +0000, "Mayayana"
said:

| Personally the deal for 12 months is too good for any
| Photoshop/Lightroom user to turn down. Whatever happens they will
still
| have their older copy of CS which qualifies them for the deal.

The whole point of such marketing is to get you hooked.
They hope you won't be willing to go back to the old version
after the deal is over. Meanwhile, if you found the added cost
of $10/month worthwhile then you must already think the
rental version is notably better than CS6, which implies that
they can probably get away with a price increase at year's
end, because you'll be loathe to return to CS6 by then.

Perhaps, perhaps. That said I have my copy of CS6 and while I can
certainly live with it now. Having a 12 month promotional "trial" of CC
was tempting. I am already thinking in terms of buying an LR5 upgrade
to run with CS6 as a form of insurance. So for now I will live with the
Adobe ambiguity and make any decision to renew once their intent is a
tad clearer.

It's like cable TV promos that promise "only $xx
for 6 months" without telling you the real price. Anyone
who's not prone to lying to themselves will find out
what the real price actually is and decide whether
they want the product at *that* price.

(Salesmen rarely cheat outright. They just help one to
lie to oneself.)

Yup! However, the big difference for current CS owners is, we will
still have our original tools, whereas the cable subscriber who drops
service after the promotional period has nothing.


One thing to take into consideration of this "one year trial offer"
is will
you be able to go back to CS6. I know that you can not go back in
Lightroom
as one of my fellow students discovered a couple of years ago. The
class was
using LR2 and he bought LR3. When he took his LR2 work home and
installed it
on his LR3 version home he discovered (and so did the whole class)
that he
could no longer work LR3 work on the school's LR2 system.

I would be cautious of assuming that you can go backwards. New stuff
shouldn't be a problem but if for some reason you want to work on an
older
photo you may not be able to.


I would think that if you keep your RAW files, that would not be a
problem. Especially since you can use non-destructive editing.
You can also save as a TIFF, or other backward compatible format.

In LR all adjustments are applied virtually and retained in the
application specific cat file. So in LR none of the adjusted virtual
copies would be backward compatible. All of the RAW files or DNGs would
be movable between versions. The ony files other than originally imorted
fies and virtual copies found in LR are image files saved back to LR
after using an external editor such as PS, one of the NIK products,
OnOne Suite, etc.
Any adjusted & finished images exported and saved in the standard file
format of choice would be accessible to any image editor.

Storing RAW files using whatever archive system you have devised is
always prudent.



So it is not saved in an XMP file, as with ACR? I was not aware of that.

--
PeterN

On 2013-11-17 03:29:34 +0000, PeterN said:

On 11/16/2013 3:48 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2013-11-16 20:10:51 +0000, PeterN said:

On 11/16/2013 2:31 PM, MI wrote:



On 11/16/13 10:49 AM, in article
2013111610494361729-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck"
wrote:

On 2013-11-16 18:32:59 +0000, "Mayayana"
said:

| Personally the deal for 12 months is too good for any
| Photoshop/Lightroom user to turn down. Whatever happens they will
still
| have their older copy of CS which qualifies them for the deal.

The whole point of such marketing is to get you hooked.
They hope you won't be willing to go back to the old version
after the deal is over. Meanwhile, if you found the added cost
of $10/month worthwhile then you must already think the
rental version is notably better than CS6, which implies that
they can probably get away with a price increase at year's
end, because you'll be loathe to return to CS6 by then.

Perhaps, perhaps. That said I have my copy of CS6 and while I can
certainly live with it now. Having a 12 month promotional "trial" of CC
was tempting. I am already thinking in terms of buying an LR5 upgrade
to run with CS6 as a form of insurance. So for now I will live with the
Adobe ambiguity and make any decision to renew once their intent is a
tad clearer.

It's like cable TV promos that promise "only $xx
for 6 months" without telling you the real price. Anyone
who's not prone to lying to themselves will find out
what the real price actually is and decide whether
they want the product at *that* price.

(Salesmen rarely cheat outright. They just help one to
lie to oneself.)

Yup! However, the big difference for current CS owners is, we will
still have our original tools, whereas the cable subscriber who drops
service after the promotional period has nothing.


One thing to take into consideration of this "one year trial offer"
is will
you be able to go back to CS6. I know that you can not go back in
Lightroom
as one of my fellow students discovered a couple of years ago. The
class was
using LR2 and he bought LR3. When he took his LR2 work home and
installed it
on his LR3 version home he discovered (and so did the whole class)
that he
could no longer work LR3 work on the school's LR2 system.

I would be cautious of assuming that you can go backwards. New stuff
shouldn't be a problem but if for some reason you want to work on an
older
photo you may not be able to.


I would think that if you keep your RAW files, that would not be a
problem. Especially since you can use non-destructive editing.
You can also save as a TIFF, or other backward compatible format.

In LR all adjustments are applied virtually and retained in the
application specific cat file. So in LR none of the adjusted virtual
copies would be backward compatible. All of the RAW files or DNGs would
be movable between versions. The ony files other than originally imorted
fies and virtual copies found in LR are image files saved back to LR
after using an external editor such as PS, one of the NIK products,
OnOne Suite, etc.
Any adjusted & finished images exported and saved in the standard file
format of choice would be accessible to any image editor.

Storing RAW files using whatever archive system you have devised is
always prudent.



So it is not saved in an XMP file, as with ACR? I was not aware of that.

That is one of the reasons it is important to set up a regular backup
of the LR catalog file in the LR preferences. Mine is set to do that on
a weekly basis.
To give you some idea my latest LR catalog file backup 464.12GB of
image files and adjustments stored & cataloged in LR is 329MB.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_374.jpg

You have several options with LR, the default is to store the all the
virtual adjustments in the LR cat files. It also gives the option to
automatically write changes into XMP and add that data to the metadata
for a particular file. So if you look at the resident folder for a
particular batch of DNGs imported into LR you will not see XMP sidecar
files.

As you know any files processed in ACR and edited in PS saved back to
the original location will usually have an associated XMP file. If you
make the same adjustments in LR to a virtual copy and then use CS or
NIK as an external editor, saving the PS adjusted/edited file back to
LR either as a TIFF or PSD all the changes are recorded in the LR
catalog. Make the same adjustments and record the changes directly via
PS you will have the resulting XMP.

So here is what a Lightroom catalog image folder looks like with an
edited virtual copy saved back to LR as a TIF. (Note: LR automatically
relabels by adding "edit")
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_372.jpg

....and the same batch of NEFs back when the bulk of my editing was done in PS.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_373.jpg

....and the final result as done with LR5 and exported from LR5 as a
JPEG to a separate location. The JPEG isn't in the LR catalog folder.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...NC1996-E1w.jpg


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 11/16/2013 9:29 PM, PeterN wrote:
On 11/16/2013 3:48 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2013-11-16 20:10:51 +0000, PeterN said:

On 11/16/2013 2:31 PM, MI wrote:



On 11/16/13 10:49 AM, in article
2013111610494361729-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck"
wrote:

On 2013-11-16 18:32:59 +0000, "Mayayana"
said:

| Personally the deal for 12 months is too good for any
| Photoshop/Lightroom user to turn down. Whatever happens they will
still
| have their older copy of CS which qualifies them for the deal.

The whole point of such marketing is to get you hooked.
They hope you won't be willing to go back to the old version
after the deal is over. Meanwhile, if you found the added cost
of $10/month worthwhile then you must already think the
rental version is notably better than CS6, which implies that
they can probably get away with a price increase at year's
end, because you'll be loathe to return to CS6 by then.

Perhaps, perhaps. That said I have my copy of CS6 and while I can
certainly live with it now. Having a 12 month promotional "trial"
of CC
was tempting. I am already thinking in terms of buying an LR5 upgrade
to run with CS6 as a form of insurance. So for now I will live with
the
Adobe ambiguity and make any decision to renew once their intent is a
tad clearer.

It's like cable TV promos that promise "only $xx
for 6 months" without telling you the real price. Anyone
who's not prone to lying to themselves will find out
what the real price actually is and decide whether
they want the product at *that* price.

(Salesmen rarely cheat outright. They just help one to
lie to oneself.)

Yup! However, the big difference for current CS owners is, we will
still have our original tools, whereas the cable subscriber who drops
service after the promotional period has nothing.


One thing to take into consideration of this "one year trial offer"
is will
you be able to go back to CS6. I know that you can not go back in
Lightroom
as one of my fellow students discovered a couple of years ago. The
class was
using LR2 and he bought LR3. When he took his LR2 work home and
installed it
on his LR3 version home he discovered (and so did the whole class)
that he
could no longer work LR3 work on the school's LR2 system.

I would be cautious of assuming that you can go backwards. New stuff
shouldn't be a problem but if for some reason you want to work on an
older
photo you may not be able to.


I would think that if you keep your RAW files, that would not be a
problem. Especially since you can use non-destructive editing.
You can also save as a TIFF, or other backward compatible format.

In LR all adjustments are applied virtually and retained in the
application specific cat file. So in LR none of the adjusted virtual
copies would be backward compatible. All of the RAW files or DNGs would
be movable between versions. The ony files other than originally imorted
fies and virtual copies found in LR are image files saved back to LR
after using an external editor such as PS, one of the NIK products,
OnOne Suite, etc.
Any adjusted & finished images exported and saved in the standard file
format of choice would be accessible to any image editor.

Storing RAW files using whatever archive system you have devised is
always prudent.



So it is not saved in an XMP file, as with ACR? I was not aware of that.


You have the option to set it up that way, if you like. It will slow
things down if you constantly update the XMP file while you make changes
in the develop module, but you do have that option.

You also have the option to export to RAW, which will create/update XMP
files in a batch operation. So you can of leave all your edit changes in
the catalog for now, and then if you ever feel the need to bail, export
all your RAW files. Might take some time to do them all, but it is
possible.

If you export DNG RAW files, the metadata is embedded in the DNG file,
so you don't need XMP files at all.

And, if you ever feel the need to ditch the CC subscription, you could
always outright buy LR5 or upgrade to it, if you really, really, liked
the way your library was set up.





---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

First, Adobe sells Photoshop, not Paintshop. A mental error, but it
makes a difference because there is a program called "Paintshop".

Sorry about that. I should know better because I've got Photopaint. I
always tend to get them confused.

Second, CorelDraw is not a substitute for Photoshop. CorelDraw is a
vector drawing program. (I have CorelDraw) It is not a photo editing
program. There is a package called CorelDraw Graphics Suite X6 that
contains Photo-Paint, but that's US$400.

I wasn't talking about CorelDraw but 'CorelDraw Suite'. That includes
all kinds of things. The current list includes CorelDraw, Corel
PhotoPaint, Power Trace, Website creator, Corel Capture and Corel
Connect.

Corel may indeed have a product called PhotoPaint. But they also have
(or had) a product call Paintshop Photo Pro. I am staring at it in a
box on my bookshelf. I think I paid $25 for it in a Black Friday deal a
few years ago, but never got around to installing it.


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 11/22/2013 1:02 AM, otter wrote:
On 11/16/2013 9:29 PM, PeterN wrote:
On 11/16/2013 3:48 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2013-11-16 20:10:51 +0000, PeterN said:

On 11/16/2013 2:31 PM, MI wrote:



On 11/16/13 10:49 AM, in article
2013111610494361729-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck"
wrote:

On 2013-11-16 18:32:59 +0000, "Mayayana"
said:

| Personally the deal for 12 months is too good for any
| Photoshop/Lightroom user to turn down. Whatever happens they will
still
| have their older copy of CS which qualifies them for the deal.

The whole point of such marketing is to get you hooked.
They hope you won't be willing to go back to the old version
after the deal is over. Meanwhile, if you found the added cost
of $10/month worthwhile then you must already think the
rental version is notably better than CS6, which implies that
they can probably get away with a price increase at year's
end, because you'll be loathe to return to CS6 by then.

Perhaps, perhaps. That said I have my copy of CS6 and while I can
certainly live with it now. Having a 12 month promotional "trial"
of CC
was tempting. I am already thinking in terms of buying an LR5 upgrade
to run with CS6 as a form of insurance. So for now I will live with
the
Adobe ambiguity and make any decision to renew once their intent is a
tad clearer.

It's like cable TV promos that promise "only $xx
for 6 months" without telling you the real price. Anyone
who's not prone to lying to themselves will find out
what the real price actually is and decide whether
they want the product at *that* price.

(Salesmen rarely cheat outright. They just help one to
lie to oneself.)

Yup! However, the big difference for current CS owners is, we will
still have our original tools, whereas the cable subscriber who drops
service after the promotional period has nothing.


One thing to take into consideration of this "one year trial offer"
is will
you be able to go back to CS6. I know that you can not go back in
Lightroom
as one of my fellow students discovered a couple of years ago. The
class was
using LR2 and he bought LR3. When he took his LR2 work home and
installed it
on his LR3 version home he discovered (and so did the whole class)
that he
could no longer work LR3 work on the school's LR2 system.

I would be cautious of assuming that you can go backwards. New stuff
shouldn't be a problem but if for some reason you want to work on an
older
photo you may not be able to.


I would think that if you keep your RAW files, that would not be a
problem. Especially since you can use non-destructive editing.
You can also save as a TIFF, or other backward compatible format.

In LR all adjustments are applied virtually and retained in the
application specific cat file. So in LR none of the adjusted virtual
copies would be backward compatible. All of the RAW files or DNGs would
be movable between versions. The ony files other than originally imorted
fies and virtual copies found in LR are image files saved back to LR
after using an external editor such as PS, one of the NIK products,
OnOne Suite, etc.
Any adjusted & finished images exported and saved in the standard file
format of choice would be accessible to any image editor.

Storing RAW files using whatever archive system you have devised is
always prudent.



So it is not saved in an XMP file, as with ACR? I was not aware of that.


You have the option to set it up that way, if you like. It will slow
things down if you constantly update the XMP file while you make changes
in the develop module, but you do have that option.

You also have the option to export to RAW, which will create/update XMP
files in a batch operation. So you can of leave all your edit changes in
the catalog for now, and then if you ever feel the need to bail, export
all your RAW files. Might take some time to do them all, but it is
possible.

If you export DNG RAW files, the metadata is embedded in the DNG file,
so you don't need XMP files at all.

And, if you ever feel the need to ditch the CC subscription, you could
always outright buy LR5 or upgrade to it, if you really, really, liked
the way your library was set up.


Right now I have about 1.5T of RAW files, plus about 250 gig of
processed files. Tim Grey advises that all LR files be kept on one
drive. he also advises that the files be kept on an external drive, and
that we not use DNG. Before I even try LR, I want to reorganize my
files. I should have that completed by the weekend.

Link courtesy of the Duck:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSwkDC3q7uk

He also advises that

--
PeterN

On 11/22/2013 1:17 AM, otter wrote:

First, Adobe sells Photoshop, not Paintshop. A mental error, but it
makes a difference because there is a program called "Paintshop".

Sorry about that. I should know better because I've got Photopaint. I
always tend to get them confused.

Second, CorelDraw is not a substitute for Photoshop. CorelDraw is a
vector drawing program. (I have CorelDraw) It is not a photo editing
program. There is a package called CorelDraw Graphics Suite X6 that
contains Photo-Paint, but that's US$400.

I wasn't talking about CorelDraw but 'CorelDraw Suite'. That includes
all kinds of things. The current list includes CorelDraw, Corel
PhotoPaint, Power Trace, Website creator, Corel Capture and Corel
Connect.

Corel may indeed have a product called PhotoPaint. But they also have
(or had) a product call Paintshop Photo Pro. I am staring at it in a
box on my bookshelf. I think I paid $25 for it in a Black Friday deal a
few years ago, but never got around to installing it.


At one time Corel graphics was competitive with PS. It is no longer, for
various reasons. That said, PSP has a lot of functionality, and is a
good alternative to PS Elements. As of now, the only corel products I
use are WordPerfect and Painter.


--
PeterN

| Corel may indeed have a product called PhotoPaint. But they also have
| (or had) a product call Paintshop Photo Pro. I am staring at it in a
| box on my bookshelf. I think I paid $25 for it in a Black Friday deal a
| few years ago, but never got around to installing it.

Yes, they bought it from the original authors,
Jasc, some years ago. They still sell it, but have
changed the versions. It's currently PSP X6, rather
than just a version number.

I still use PSP5 for basic editing. It does what I
need. I once decided to update to PSP7 but was
very disappointed with it. They had stuffed it full
of nonsense bloat. (Simply drawing a rectangle had
become a complex task, cluttered with choices
to use stock backgrounds and such.) So I went back
to PSP5.