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DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 27th 15, 07:20 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
George Kerby
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Posts: 4,798
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go




On 7/27/15 9:52 AM, in article , "PeterN"
wrote:

On 7/27/2015 5:42 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Bill W
wrote:

Not such a great analogy. Cameras are used as tools with a purpose,
and some purposes require greater quality than others. CD's have one
purpose, listening to music. Another problem is that lots of folks -
maybe most - clearly don't care at all about sound quality. Some of
the codecs & specs that are used are simply not very good. Oddly
enough, vinyl is having its own upward blip, because some people think
it sounds better. I think that's a good development, even if those
people are crazy...

they're hipsters who think it's cool.

They also think hiss = warmth.


and distortion.

Part of the problem, or maybe the whole
problem, became crystal clear to me many years ago. I bought a Mobile
Fidelity Sound Labs album, and the sound was amazing.


i have a couple of those.

That was before
CD's came out, and when the CD of that album came out, I couldn't wait
to listen to it. I assumed it would be beyond belief. Well, it sucked.
Flat, lifeless, everything you always hear from the vinyl nuts. But it
was representative of the overall problem. It was simply badly done.
Very badly done. It really was hit or miss back then.


early cds were poorly mastered, which has nothing to do with being
digital.

cds are much better than vinyl ever could dream of.

Another thing many people just don't understand is that if you listen
to one of those really great sounding vinyl LP's from years ago on
high end equipment, you will soon realize that the sound on that LP is
total crap, and it was simply being "healed" by a crappy sound system
that masked all of the flaws.


vinyl has always been total crap. it's that there wasn't anything
better until cds came along.

it's a tiny needle wiggling in a groove. it's horribly primitive.


So says the judgemental one, while not mentioning that lots of people
like the sound of vinyl.
While waiting at a light this morning, some A-hole was playing digital
sounds with a booming bass, that my car was shaking, and the sound
through closed windows, was drowning out the sound of my radio.


You should know what to do in that situation:

Start acting like you really LIKE it and get his attention (HAS to be a
MALE). Once he's looking your way, motion for him to turn it UP while
nodding your head up and down, and gesturing with the other hand ":thumbs
up". If you are lucky, the moron will follow your suggestions and jack it up
so loud that it will blow his speakers, a fuse and/or spontaneous combustion
of the vehicle due to electrical arcing.

My .02...

  #12  
Old July 27th 15, 10:33 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

In article , PeterN
wrote:

Another thing many people just don't understand is that if you listen
to one of those really great sounding vinyl LP's from years ago on
high end equipment, you will soon realize that the sound on that LP is
total crap, and it was simply being "healed" by a crappy sound system
that masked all of the flaws.


vinyl has always been total crap. it's that there wasn't anything
better until cds came along.

it's a tiny needle wiggling in a groove. it's horribly primitive.


So says the judgemental one, while not mentioning that lots of people
like the sound of vinyl.


i'm not judging anyone.

whatever sound they like (or actually, what they think they like) can
be done digitally.

the fact is that cd audio far surpasses vinyl. this can be proven
mathematically.

you can always downgrade cd to sound like vinyl but you can't ever make
a vinyl record sound as good as a cd. it's *impossible*.

While waiting at a light this morning, some A-hole was playing digital
sounds with a booming bass, that my car was shaking, and the sound
through closed windows, was drowning out the sound of my radio.


that has absolutely nothing to do with digital, which makes *you* the
judgmental one.

that's been happening for years, long before there was digital, with
cassettes or even radio stations. all it takes is a high powered sound
system.

and if it was as loud as you claim, call the cops and have them cited
for a noise violation.
  #13  
Old July 27th 15, 10:33 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

In article , PeterN
wrote:

it's a bit hard to listen to music if you
don't have speakers or an amplifier.

Newsflash!!
There is this brand new concept called: live performance.


whoosh.

and live performances usually have speakers and amplifiers, but don't
let that get in the way of your idiotic arguments.
  #14  
Old July 27th 15, 10:58 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
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Posts: 4,254
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

On 7/27/2015 5:33 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

it's a bit hard to listen to music if you
don't have speakers or an amplifier.

Newsflash!!
There is this brand new concept called: live performance.


whoosh.

whoosh yourself. Your above statement is idiotic.
I know Beethoven couldn't listen to music. There were no microphones and
speakers in his day.

and live performances usually have speakers and amplifiers, but don't
let that get in the way of your idiotic arguments.


Yes! Chamber music played for small audiences, usually have speakers.
Shessh! Ignorance prevails once again. I regularly go to live
performances where the performers would be horrified at the very thought
of speakers.
Yes microphones are used for a lot of performances. Sound engineers are
regularly employed for a lot of concerts. My objection is your
implication that one cannot hear music unless there are microphones and
speakers.

--
PeterN
  #15  
Old July 27th 15, 11:10 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

In article , PeterN
wrote:

it's a bit hard to listen to music if you
don't have speakers or an amplifier.

Newsflash!!
There is this brand new concept called: live performance.


whoosh.

whoosh yourself. Your above statement is idiotic.
I know Beethoven couldn't listen to music. There were no microphones and
speakers in his day.


whoosh again.

this isn't about beethoven's time.

and live performances usually have speakers and amplifiers, but don't
let that get in the way of your idiotic arguments.


Yes! Chamber music played for small audiences, usually have speakers.
Shessh! Ignorance prevails once again. I regularly go to live
performances where the performers would be horrified at the very thought
of speakers.
Yes microphones are used for a lot of performances. Sound engineers are
regularly employed for a lot of concerts. My objection is your
implication that one cannot hear music unless there are microphones and
speakers.


once again you're arguing just to argue.

the issue under discussion was a home stereo with a photo cartridge in
a turntable versus a cd player as an input source, connected to an
amplifier and speakers.

live performances was *never* under discussion.
  #16  
Old July 27th 15, 11:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 05:58:40 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

If this sounds alarmist, check out CD or vinyl sales from
their highest sales year till now. The drop in sales isn't
some minor economic blip, it's an evolution of the market.

Not such a great analogy. Cameras are used as tools with a purpose,
and some purposes require greater quality than others. CD's have one
purpose, listening to music. Another problem is that lots of folks -
maybe most - clearly don't care at all about sound quality. Some of
the codecs & specs that are used are simply not very good. Oddly
enough, vinyl is having its own upward blip, because some people think
it sounds better. I think that's a good development, even if those
people are crazy...

they're hipsters who think it's cool.


Me ahipster? 81 years old and loaded with 17th-18th century music?

You gotta be joking.


nope.

he said vinyl has seen an upward blip. did you buy your vinyl in the
past couple of years, contributing to that blip? no, you didn't. you
bought it a while ago, probably before there were cds.


I replied to because some people

............. think
it sounds better. I think that's a good development, even if those
people are crazy...


they're hipsters who think it's cool.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #17  
Old July 27th 15, 11:52 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

On 7/27/2015 6:10 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

it's a bit hard to listen to music if you
don't have speakers or an amplifier.

Newsflash!!
There is this brand new concept called: live performance.

whoosh.

whoosh yourself. Your above statement is idiotic.
I know Beethoven couldn't listen to music. There were no microphones and
speakers in his day.


whoosh again.

this isn't about beethoven's time.

and live performances usually have speakers and amplifiers, but don't
let that get in the way of your idiotic arguments.


Yes! Chamber music played for small audiences, usually have speakers.
Shessh! Ignorance prevails once again. I regularly go to live
performances where the performers would be horrified at the very thought
of speakers.
Yes microphones are used for a lot of performances. Sound engineers are
regularly employed for a lot of concerts. My objection is your
implication that one cannot hear music unless there are microphones and
speakers.


once again you're arguing just to argue.

the issue under discussion was a home stereo with a photo cartridge in
a turntable versus a cd player as an input source, connected to an
amplifier and speakers.

live performances was *never* under discussion.

Your statement: "it's a bit hard to listen to music if you
don't have speakers or an amplifier."


An unqualified statement.

Another absolute statement by you: " and live performances usually have
speakers and amplifiers, but don't
let that get in the way of your idiotic arguments."

Yet you have the temerity to state that: "live performances were never
under discussion."

I raised the issue, and it was not until you were cornered that you
bleat: "live performances were never under discussion."

And continue to argue when your error is pointed out.
--
PeterN
  #18  
Old July 28th 15, 12:11 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

In article , PeterN
wrote:

and live performances usually have speakers and amplifiers, but don't
let that get in the way of your idiotic arguments.

Yes! Chamber music played for small audiences, usually have speakers.
Shessh! Ignorance prevails once again. I regularly go to live
performances where the performers would be horrified at the very thought
of speakers.
Yes microphones are used for a lot of performances. Sound engineers are
regularly employed for a lot of concerts. My objection is your
implication that one cannot hear music unless there are microphones and
speakers.


once again you're arguing just to argue.

the issue under discussion was a home stereo with a photo cartridge in
a turntable versus a cd player as an input source, connected to an
amplifier and speakers.

live performances was *never* under discussion.

Your statement: "it's a bit hard to listen to music if you
don't have speakers or an amplifier."


An unqualified statement.

Another absolute statement by you: " and live performances usually have
speakers and amplifiers, but don't
let that get in the way of your idiotic arguments."

Yet you have the temerity to state that: "live performances were never
under discussion."


they were not, which you would know if you had actually read the post
to which i was responding as well as preceding posts.

you really should do that. otherwise you end up looking like a total
idiot.

here it is:
In article , nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

There are two weak points in most systems. The first is the cartridge
and associated bits and pieces. The second is most definitely the
speakers. Amplifiers are reasonably easy to do.


cds eliminates the first one.

the rest you can't eliminate. it's a bit hard to listen to music if you
don't have speakers or an amplifier.



do you see where it says 'most systems' ??

guess what that means.
hint: it does *not* mean 'live acoustic performance'.

now, if you click the reference link, you can see eric's post (which i
trimmed slightly but feel free to read it in its entirety), where bill
was discussing *home sound systems*, mfsl records and cds. eric
mentioned cartridge and speakers being weak points.

again *home* *sound* *systems*, records and cds.

not a single mention of live performances. zero. nada. zilch.


In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jul 2015 23:31:28 -0700, Bill W
wrote:

They also think hiss = warmth. Part of the problem, or maybe the whole
problem, became crystal clear to me many years ago. I bought a Mobile
Fidelity Sound Labs album, and the sound was amazing. That was before
CD's came out, and when the CD of that album came out, I couldn't wait
to listen to it. I assumed it would be beyond belief. Well, it sucked.
Flat, lifeless, everything you always hear from the vinyl nuts. But it
was representative of the overall problem. It was simply badly done.
Very badly done. It really was hit or miss back then.

Another thing many people just don't understand is that if you listen
to one of those really great sounding vinyl LP's from years ago on
high end equipment, you will soon realize that the sound on that LP is
total crap, and it was simply being "healed" by a crappy sound system
that masked all of the flaws.


There are two weak points in most systems. The first is the cartridge
and associated bits and pieces. The second is most definitely the
speakers. Amplifiers are reasonably easy to do.




I raised the issue, and it was not until you were cornered that you
bleat: "live performances were never under discussion."


nope. you argue for the sake of argument.

And continue to argue when your error is pointed out.


the only error is of your own making.
  #19  
Old July 28th 15, 12:39 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

On 7/27/2015 7:11 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

and live performances usually have speakers and amplifiers, but don't
let that get in the way of your idiotic arguments.

Yes! Chamber music played for small audiences, usually have speakers.
Shessh! Ignorance prevails once again. I regularly go to live
performances where the performers would be horrified at the very thought
of speakers.
Yes microphones are used for a lot of performances. Sound engineers are
regularly employed for a lot of concerts. My objection is your
implication that one cannot hear music unless there are microphones and
speakers.

once again you're arguing just to argue.

the issue under discussion was a home stereo with a photo cartridge in
a turntable versus a cd player as an input source, connected to an
amplifier and speakers.

live performances was *never* under discussion.

Your statement: "it's a bit hard to listen to music if you
don't have speakers or an amplifier."


An unqualified statement.

Another absolute statement by you: " and live performances usually have
speakers and amplifiers, but don't
let that get in the way of your idiotic arguments."

Yet you have the temerity to state that: "live performances were never
under discussion."


they were not, which you would know if you had actually read the post
to which i was responding as well as preceding posts.

you really should do that. otherwise you end up looking like a total
idiot.

here it is:
In article , nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

There are two weak points in most systems. The first is the cartridge
and associated bits and pieces. The second is most definitely the
speakers. Amplifiers are reasonably easy to do.


cds eliminates the first one.

the rest you can't eliminate. it's a bit hard to listen to music if you
don't have speakers or an amplifier.



do you see where it says 'most systems' ??

guess what that means.
hint: it does *not* mean 'live acoustic performance'.

now, if you click the reference link, you can see eric's post (which i
trimmed slightly but feel free to read it in its entirety), where bill
was discussing *home sound systems*, mfsl records and cds. eric
mentioned cartridge and speakers being weak points.

again *home* *sound* *systems*, records and cds.

not a single mention of live performances. zero. nada. zilch.


In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jul 2015 23:31:28 -0700, Bill W
wrote:

They also think hiss = warmth. Part of the problem, or maybe the whole
problem, became crystal clear to me many years ago. I bought a Mobile
Fidelity Sound Labs album, and the sound was amazing. That was before
CD's came out, and when the CD of that album came out, I couldn't wait
to listen to it. I assumed it would be beyond belief. Well, it sucked.
Flat, lifeless, everything you always hear from the vinyl nuts. But it
was representative of the overall problem. It was simply badly done.
Very badly done. It really was hit or miss back then.

Another thing many people just don't understand is that if you listen
to one of those really great sounding vinyl LP's from years ago on
high end equipment, you will soon realize that the sound on that LP is
total crap, and it was simply being "healed" by a crappy sound system
that masked all of the flaws.


There are two weak points in most systems. The first is the cartridge
and associated bits and pieces. The second is most definitely the
speakers. Amplifiers are reasonably easy to do.




I raised the issue, and it was not until you were cornered that you
bleat: "live performances were never under discussion."


nope. you argue for the sake of argument.

And continue to argue when your error is pointed out.


the only error is of your own making.


I see. Sorry. I missed the connection between "most systems," and your
statement to the effect that one cannot hear music without microphones
and speakers. I also missed your connection between microphones and most
home systems. Good thing that you cleared that up.

--
PeterN
  #20  
Old July 28th 15, 12:51 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go

In article , PeterN
wrote:

I see. Sorry. I missed the connection between "most systems," and your
statement to the effect that one cannot hear music without microphones
and speakers. I also missed your connection between microphones and most
home systems. Good thing that you cleared that up.


i never mentioned microphones.

you *really* ought to quit before you dig yourself an even deeper hole.
 




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