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Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.



 
 
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  #101  
Old November 3rd 18, 01:06 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

the point is that file sharing between computers does not need anything
more than enabling it on at least one and then connecting from another.

some systems make it more complex than it needs to be, something you're
finding out.


It took me about five minutes to set up file sharing between my Win7 and
Win 10 machines, over my home network. All I did was RTFM.


no need for an fm. click a box to enable and click another button to
browse.

meanwhile, it took eric the better part of a week, and i don't think he
has it working the way he would like, if it's working at all. why don't
you fix it for him?
  #102  
Old November 3rd 18, 01:08 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.

On Thu, 01 Nov 2018 19:06:31 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


Serious question: how often would you expect to have to replace (i.e.
refresh) a NAS?


replace/refresh what? also, replace & refresh mean different things, so
what exactly are you asking?

keep in mind that a nas can be a computer with file sharing enabled
(along with whatever else) and one or more drives. it doesn't have to
be a nas box such as synology or qnap. there are advantages to each.


I didn't ask you for a definition of 'NAS', a term which you
introduced to this discussion. I was wanting to know "how often would
you expect to have to replace (i.e. refresh) a NAS?"

To explain the term 'refresh' to you, it comes from Alan Browne's use
of the word in:

-----------------------------------
tl;dr discs are *not* archival.


That's why I refresh them every 5 - 6 years.
------------------------------------

.... which I took to mean he replaced them because they had come to the
end of their reliable life.

The same problem, although from different causes, must occur with NAS
storage. Software may become obsolete or hardware become old and
unreliable: there must come a time when it is best to replace the NAS
with a new one. Hence my serious question: how often would you expect
to have to replace (i.e. refresh) a NAS?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #103  
Old November 3rd 18, 01:12 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.

On Thu, 01 Nov 2018 19:06:33 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Do you play chess? bridge? cricket? Do you drive a car on the roads?

You will find that each of those is a problem unless you know the
rules by which they work.

one does *not* need to know how to build or repair cars to drive one to
the store.

You do if the car is in bits or doesn't go.

no. either you call for service or find alternate means.


OK. You can also engage a knowledgable person to play chess, bridge or
cricket on your behalf.


given how well i play chess or cricket, that's what i would do


I presume thats because you find chess and cricket to be a problem.

A hundred years ago people who didn't know how
to drive a car engaged a chauffer.


they do that now with uber, lyft, taxicabs, bike rentals, scooters,
public transportation (bus, subway & rail) and other options.

not that any of that has anything to do with file sharing.

the point is that file sharing between computers does not need anything
more than enabling it on at least one and then connecting from another.

some systems make it more complex than it needs to be, something you're
finding out.


I've known it for years. This is the first time since Windows 3.5 that
I have had the same operating system on two computers.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #104  
Old November 3rd 18, 01:17 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.

On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 19:11:56 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

On 11/1/2018 7:06 PM, nospam wrote:



Snip


the point is that file sharing between computers does not need anything
more than enabling it on at least one and then connecting from another.

some systems make it more complex than it needs to be, something you're
finding out.


It took me about five minutes to set up file sharing between my Win7 and
Win 10 machines, over my home network. All I did was RTFM.


1) Did you actually get one?

2) Was it still the same as the user interface and operating system by
the time you got it?

My trouble is that I have never succeeded in identifying a book that
contains information at the system level I require. Even if I had,
going by what's on the Internet, the details of the user interface
given in the instructions would no longer be the same as the current
version of the OS.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #105  
Old November 3rd 18, 01:19 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.

On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 03:38:21 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Thursday, 1 November 2018 22:37:13 UTC, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2018 08:07:03 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Do you play chess? bridge? cricket? Do you drive a car on the roads?

You will find that each of those is a problem unless you know the
rules by which they work.

one does *not* need to know how to build or repair cars to drive one to
the store.

You do if the car is in bits or doesn't go.

no. either you call for service or find alternate means.


OK. You can also engage a knowledgable person to play chess, bridge or
cricket on your behalf. A hundred years ago people who didn't know how
to drive a car engaged a chauffer.


People still do hire chauffers, wedding, funerals, parties, you might also have noticed and service called cabs or taxis, people don't always use such things because they can't drive.

So people who can't drive are a sub-class of people who hire chauffers
or taxis.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #106  
Old November 3rd 18, 02:31 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Serious question: how often would you expect to have to replace (i.e.
refresh) a NAS?


replace/refresh what? also, replace & refresh mean different things, so
what exactly are you asking?

keep in mind that a nas can be a computer with file sharing enabled
(along with whatever else) and one or more drives. it doesn't have to
be a nas box such as synology or qnap. there are advantages to each.


I didn't ask you for a definition of 'NAS', a term which you
introduced to this discussion. I was wanting to know "how often would
you expect to have to replace (i.e. refresh) a NAS?"


a question which is unclear and doesn't make much sense.

To explain the term 'refresh' to you, it comes from Alan Browne's use
of the word in:

-----------------------------------
tl;dr discs are *not* archival.


That's why I refresh them every 5 - 6 years.
------------------------------------

... which I took to mean he replaced them because they had come to the
end of their reliable life.


optical discs degrade and will eventually become unreadable much faster
than hard drives, while sitting unused on a shelf.

The same problem, although from different causes, must occur with NAS
storage.


of course. nothing lasts forever.

Software may become obsolete or hardware become old and
unreliable: there must come a time when it is best to replace the NAS
with a new one. Hence my serious question: how often would you expect
to have to replace (i.e. refresh) a NAS?


again, replace & refresh mean different things.

in any event, how often do you replace/refresh hard drives in your
laptop or desktop computer? how often do you replace/refresh the
computer itself? how heavily do you use the computer? how much down
time can you tolerate if there's a problem?

nas hardware is mostly the same (sometimes exactly the same) as a
desktop computer, just optimized for a different use case.

tl;dr there is no single answer.
  #107  
Old November 3rd 18, 02:31 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

the point is that file sharing between computers does not need anything
more than enabling it on at least one and then connecting from another.

some systems make it more complex than it needs to be, something you're
finding out.


I've known it for years. This is the first time since Windows 3.5 that
I have had the same operating system on two computers.


having the same system on both doesn't matter.

what matters is if they speak the same protocols, which if both are the
same, should greatly simplify things.
  #108  
Old November 3rd 18, 08:38 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 21:31:27 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Serious question: how often would you expect to have to replace (i.e.
refresh) a NAS?

replace/refresh what? also, replace & refresh mean different things, so
what exactly are you asking?

keep in mind that a nas can be a computer with file sharing enabled
(along with whatever else) and one or more drives. it doesn't have to
be a nas box such as synology or qnap. there are advantages to each.


I didn't ask you for a definition of 'NAS', a term which you
introduced to this discussion. I was wanting to know "how often would
you expect to have to replace (i.e. refresh) a NAS?"


a question which is unclear and doesn't make much sense.

To explain the term 'refresh' to you, it comes from Alan Browne's use
of the word in:

-----------------------------------
tl;dr discs are *not* archival.


That's why I refresh them every 5 - 6 years.
------------------------------------

... which I took to mean he replaced them because they had come to the
end of their reliable life.


optical discs degrade and will eventually become unreadable much faster
than hard drives, while sitting unused on a shelf.

The same problem, although from different causes, must occur with NAS
storage.


of course. nothing lasts forever.

Software may become obsolete or hardware become old and
unreliable: there must come a time when it is best to replace the NAS
with a new one. Hence my serious question: how often would you expect
to have to replace (i.e. refresh) a NAS?


again, replace & refresh mean different things.

in any event, how often do you replace/refresh hard drives in your
laptop or desktop computer? how often do you replace/refresh the
computer itself? how heavily do you use the computer? how much down
time can you tolerate if there's a problem?

nas hardware is mostly the same (sometimes exactly the same) as a
desktop computer, just optimized for a different use case.

tl;dr there is no single answer.


Now in previous discussions you have told us the economic life of a PC
is about 3 years and of Apple about 5 years. That means the life
expectancy of a NAS will be about the same as that of a CD disc or
similar. At that time you will be looking to either replace it or, at
the least, install new drives. You may prolong its life by fitting new
drives but I doubt if you would do that a second time.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #109  
Old November 3rd 18, 02:21 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Ken Hart[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 569
Default Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.

On 11/2/18 9:31 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Serious question: how often would you expect to have to replace (i.e.
refresh) a NAS?

replace/refresh what? also, replace & refresh mean different things, so
what exactly are you asking?

keep in mind that a nas can be a computer with file sharing enabled
(along with whatever else) and one or more drives. it doesn't have to
be a nas box such as synology or qnap. there are advantages to each.


I didn't ask you for a definition of 'NAS', a term which you
introduced to this discussion. I was wanting to know "how often would
you expect to have to replace (i.e. refresh) a NAS?"


a question which is unclear and doesn't make much sense.

To explain the term 'refresh' to you, it comes from Alan Browne's use
of the word in:

-----------------------------------
tl;dr discs are *not* archival.


That's why I refresh them every 5 - 6 years.
------------------------------------

... which I took to mean he replaced them because they had come to the
end of their reliable life.


optical discs degrade and will eventually become unreadable much faster
than hard drives, while sitting unused on a shelf.

The same problem, although from different causes, must occur with NAS
storage.


of course. nothing lasts forever.

Software may become obsolete or hardware become old and
unreliable: there must come a time when it is best to replace the NAS
with a new one. Hence my serious question: how often would you expect
to have to replace (i.e. refresh) a NAS?


again, replace & refresh mean different things.

in any event, how often do you replace/refresh hard drives in your
laptop or desktop computer? how often do you replace/refresh the
computer itself? how heavily do you use the computer? how much down
time can you tolerate if there's a problem?

nas hardware is mostly the same (sometimes exactly the same) as a
desktop computer, just optimized for a different use case.

tl;dr there is no single answer.

https://www.extremetech.com/computin...ually-live-for

Summarizing this 2013 cite, an online backup company called "Backblaze"
analyzed the failure rate of their 25,000 consumer-grade drives. They
found three "failure phases": the first 1.5 years, 5% fail due to
manufacturing defects. The next 1.5 years, 1.5% fail randomly. After 3
years, 12% fail from wear. (I've done slight rounding.)

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-...tats-for-2017/

The same company presents stats from last year, breaking out brands and
sizes. I didn't do the math, but at a glance, it looks like their 2013
data is still pretty close for the first two failure phases, while the
third (wearing out) has improved somewhat.

Summarizing, nospam is right: "there is no single answer", but the
prudent individual would start seriously shopping for a new drive at
four years.


--
Ken Hart

  #110  
Old November 3rd 18, 05:06 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Software may become obsolete or hardware become old and
unreliable: there must come a time when it is best to replace the NAS
with a new one. Hence my serious question: how often would you expect
to have to replace (i.e. refresh) a NAS?


again, replace & refresh mean different things.

in any event, how often do you replace/refresh hard drives in your
laptop or desktop computer? how often do you replace/refresh the
computer itself? how heavily do you use the computer? how much down
time can you tolerate if there's a problem?

nas hardware is mostly the same (sometimes exactly the same) as a
desktop computer, just optimized for a different use case.

tl;dr there is no single answer.


Now in previous discussions you have told us the economic life of a PC
is about 3 years and of Apple about 5 years. That means the life
expectancy of a NAS will be about the same as that of a CD disc or
similar.


nope.

a nas has a very different use case than a desktop/laptop computer.

a nas sharing files does not need to run the latest version of
photoshop or whatever else, nor does it need a fancy gpu, so as long as
the hardware continues to work, there's not a pressing need to replace
it.

At that time you will be looking to either replace it or, at
the least, install new drives. You may prolong its life by fitting new
drives but I doubt if you would do that a second time.


also wrong.
 




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