Pyro Staining B&W negatives vs. C-41 Monochromatic film

What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC Pyro as opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is worth the trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.

"KS" not.me@com wrote in message
news:WifTc.97257$M95.43550@pd7tw1no...
What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC
Pyro as opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is
worth the trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.

What are you trying to accomplish?


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"KS" not.me@com wrote in message
news:WifTc.97257$M95.43550@pd7tw1no...
What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC
Pyro as opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is
worth the trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.


You are really talking about apples and swimming pools here. What are
you envisioning as your final prints, Azo or an alt process contact
print, or machine enlargment prints? Can you even get C-41 B&W films
big enough for a decent contact print? If you are planning on doing
enlargments, ABC is nearly useless. Look at PMK or Pyrocat HD for
that, and you will get much "sharper" negs that you would with the
C-41 stuff.
Brook

What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC
Pyro as opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is
worth the trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.


You are really talking about apples and swimming pools here. What are
you envisioning as your final prints, Azo or an alt process contact
print, or machine enlargment prints? Can you even get C-41 B&W films
big enough for a decent contact print? If you are planning on doing
enlargments, ABC is nearly useless. Look at PMK or Pyrocat HD for
that, and you will get much "sharper" negs that you would with the
C-41 stuff.
Brook

OK let's say it's PMK. I know absolutely nothing about Pyros at this point.
Just some cursory readings at present. I've read that it's a dye or stain
which is in some ways similar to the way color film (e.g. monochromatic c41)
works. I first want to use it on 35mm, and medium format negs, then I'll try
8X10. Will I see a improvement in my negs? I want to work toward contact
printing from 8X10 or digital negs to palladium at some point in the future.

In article IZJTc.109988$M95.36710@pd7tw1no, "KS"
wrote:


OK let's say it's PMK. I know absolutely nothing about Pyros at this point.
Just some cursory readings at present. I've read that it's a dye or stain
which is in some ways similar to the way color film (e.g. monochromatic c41)
works.

Think of Pyro stained negatives as having a yellow or yellow green filter
built in, contrast reduction is the biggest selling point of PMK or any
kind of Pyro. I've tried quite of few of the Pyro incarnations.
Personally I like the Rollo version which incorporates Vitamin C
"ascorbic acid" in the recipe. Seems more stable and consistant. The
best stain seems to be obtained which non T grained films with the
exception of Delta 100 which I find acceptable. Delta 400 also stains
nicely (But I mainly shoot LF).

For small format 35mm negatives Pyro is probably not the best choice
MF should be ok, Though for T grained films it would be Ok if it stains
them.

Best results with PMK can be obtained by doing two things:

a) Split the developer into two equal amounts for the
total development time. In other words pour out the first half and
replace it using fresh developer after half the development time has
elapsed.


b) Mix part b of the developer into the water and part a just prior to
using it and a pinch of amidol will give the developer a little
boost and will produce a little more film speed.

These are not new ideas, just ones which some here have shared,
and some taken from the Darkroom Cookbook which I recommend.


I first want to use it on 35mm, and medium format negs, then I'll try
8X10. Will I see a improvement in my negs?

It depends on how careful a darkroom worker you are, I tend to
feel the more careful you are the better results you can get from any
developer and film. People want painless solutions (pun intended)
There are not very many.

I want to work toward contact
printing from 8X10 or digital negs to palladium at some point in the future.

Well decide. The sooner the better.

--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

In article IZJTc.109988$M95.36710@pd7tw1no, "KS"
wrote:


OK let's say it's PMK. I know absolutely nothing about Pyros at this point.
Just some cursory readings at present. I've read that it's a dye or stain
which is in some ways similar to the way color film (e.g. monochromatic c41)
works.

Think of Pyro stained negatives as having a yellow or yellow green filter
built in, contrast reduction is the biggest selling point of PMK or any
kind of Pyro. I've tried quite of few of the Pyro incarnations.
Personally I like the Rollo version which incorporates Vitamin C
"ascorbic acid" in the recipe. Seems more stable and consistant. The
best stain seems to be obtained which non T grained films with the
exception of Delta 100 which I find acceptable. Delta 400 also stains
nicely (But I mainly shoot LF).

For small format 35mm negatives Pyro is probably not the best choice
MF should be ok, Though for T grained films it would be Ok if it stains
them.

Best results with PMK can be obtained by doing two things:

a) Split the developer into two equal amounts for the
total development time. In other words pour out the first half and
replace it using fresh developer after half the development time has
elapsed.


b) Mix part b of the developer into the water and part a just prior to
using it and a pinch of amidol will give the developer a little
boost and will produce a little more film speed.

These are not new ideas, just ones which some here have shared,
and some taken from the Darkroom Cookbook which I recommend.


I first want to use it on 35mm, and medium format negs, then I'll try
8X10. Will I see a improvement in my negs?

It depends on how careful a darkroom worker you are, I tend to
feel the more careful you are the better results you can get from any
developer and film. People want painless solutions (pun intended)
There are not very many.

I want to work toward contact
printing from 8X10 or digital negs to palladium at some point in the future.

Well decide. The sooner the better.

--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC
Pyro as opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is
worth the trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.


You are really talking about apples and swimming pools here. What are
you envisioning as your final prints, Azo or an alt process contact
print, or machine enlargment prints? Can you even get C-41 B&W films
big enough for a decent contact print? If you are planning on doing
enlargments, ABC is nearly useless. Look at PMK or Pyrocat HD for
that, and you will get much "sharper" negs that you would with the
C-41 stuff.
Brook

OK let's say it's PMK. I know absolutely nothing about Pyros at this point.
Just some cursory readings at present. I've read that it's a dye or stain
which is in some ways similar to the way color film (e.g. monochromatic c41)
works. I first want to use it on 35mm, and medium format negs, then I'll try
8X10. Will I see a improvement in my negs? I want to work toward contact
printing from 8X10 or digital negs to palladium at some point in the future.

What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC
Pyro as opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is
worth the trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.

What are you trying to accomplish?

A really good negative with wonderful tones.

"KS" not.me@com wrote in message
news:WifTc.97257$M95.43550@pd7tw1no...
What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC
Pyro as opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is
worth the trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.


You are really talking about apples and swimming pools here. What are
you envisioning as your final prints, Azo or an alt process contact
print, or machine enlargment prints? Can you even get C-41 B&W films
big enough for a decent contact print? If you are planning on doing
enlargments, ABC is nearly useless. Look at PMK or Pyrocat HD for
that, and you will get much "sharper" negs that you would with the
C-41 stuff.
Brook

What are the advantages/differences between using say ABC
Pyro as opposed to
C-41 based B&W process film? I'm debating whether it is
worth the trouble to
use play around with pyro. Thx.

What are you trying to accomplish?

A really good negative with wonderful tones.