Leica's M8 fixes

The introduction of Leica's first digital M series hasn't gone quite as
smoothly as they will have hoped, before the camera even reached owners
some reviewers spotted some issues with the imaging side of the camera
(Banding, Mirror/Ghost effect and IR sensitivity). Leica issued a
statement two weeks ago that they were aware and were working on a
solution. Today they have announced the 'action plan', firstly that the
Banding and Mirror/Ghost images issue can be rectified by returning
your camera to LEICA for repair (and that all new M8's leaving Solms
will not suffer from this problem). Secondly the solution for 'above
average' IR sensitivity are IR filters which attach to the front of the
lens, Leica will be offering two free filters to all M8 owners.

Press Release:
Upgrade for the LEICA M8 available

11/24/2006 - Since delivery of the LEICA M8 started as of the end of
October 2006 we have received the endorsement of many happy users.
Nevertheless, in some fairly rare situations, some annoying effects may
occasionally occur. Even though these artifacts neither happen often
nor to everyone we want to eliminate the effects by providing the
following solution.
Issues reported as "Banding" and "Mirror/Ghost images"

Our engineering teams thoroughly investigated the root causes of these
effects. They have developed and tested a robust remedy - an upgrade
for the M8 - to eliminate any re-occurrence. We have taken extra
precautions to not only make sure that the problem does not surface
again, but that this remedy will enable every M8 to meet and exceed
Leica performance standards.

Cameras shipped from our factory as of November 27th, 2006 will be
equipped with the upgrade. Therefore, and because they will be tested
thoroughly, we are confident that they will be defect-free.

All customers having received their LEICA M8 before this delivery date
will be offered an upgrade free of charge in Leica Camera AG's Customer
Service in Solms. To upgrade your camera please, register yourself on
our website as of December 6th, 2006. After you have registered you
will be contacted by Customer Service to make an appointment to send in
your LEICA M8.
Please note that even without this upgrade all cameras delivered before
this date are in working order and can be used normally. Even so, we
recommend you to have the upgrade performed.
Above-average sensitivity for infrared light (synthetic fabrics are
rendered with a slight magenta offset)

During the development of the LEICA M8, we made important design
choices to insure that the camera delivers the quality in images the
Leica M System is known for. Keeping the protective glass cover on the
sensor as thin as possible on the one hand has the benefit of allowing
the full potential of Leica lenses on the LEICA M8 to be utilized with
respect to their sharpness and contrast rendition, but it also absorbs
less of the infrared light. In everyday photographical use the
resulting above-average sensitivity for infrared light may lead to a
faulty color rendition, especially in the case of synthetic fabrics
which - depending on the ambient light - cannot be rendered fully black
but only with a slight magenta offset.

Our solution: We will offer special screw-on type UV/IR filters for all
Leica M lenses. With respect to the Leica M's compact build the
combination of a thin absorption filter on the sensor and a screw-on
interference filter on the lens represents the best technical solution.
It completely eliminates the color offset caused by infrared light.
When using lenses from 16 to 35mm, we suggest opting for the 6-bit
coded ones, in order to prevent a color offset towards the edges. No
disadvantages must be expected for the images when the LEICA M8 is
equipped with the latest firmware (from 1.10; available as of early
December 2006).

Leica Camera AG offers every LEICA M8 customer a basic kit of two UV/IR
filters with diameters of her/his choice and free of charge. Delivery
will commence as of early February 2007. In order to receive the two
free IR/UV filters, please register yourself as of December 6th, 2006,
including your name and address as well as the camera's serial number.
After your registration you can order two filters of choice which will
be delivered to your address. Additional filters will be available from
your Leica dealer.
Continuing improvements through firmware updates

As is common with digital products, Leica Camera AG is constantly
working on improving firmware details such as in the case of the
automatic white balance. All improvements will be made available for
our customers as downloadable firmware updates.

We are confident these corrective technical measures will fulfil every
expectation of even the most demanding customers.

If anyone is unhappy enough with their M8 to want to give it away I will be
happy to take it, IR warts and all . . .

RichA wrote:

The introduction of Leica's first digital M series hasn't gone quite as
smoothly as they will have hoped, before the camera even reached owners
some reviewers spotted some issues with the imaging side of the camera
(Banding, Mirror/Ghost effect and IR sensitivity). Leica issued a
statement two weeks ago that they were aware and were working on a
solution. Today they have announced the 'action plan', firstly that the
Banding and Mirror/Ghost images issue can be rectified by returning
your camera to LEICA for repair (and that all new M8's leaving Solms
will not suffer from this problem). Secondly the solution for 'above
average' IR sensitivity are IR filters which attach to the front of the
lens, Leica will be offering two free filters to all M8 owners.

Press Release:
Upgrade for the LEICA M8 available

11/24/2006 - Since delivery of the LEICA M8 started as of the end of
October 2006 we have received the endorsement of many happy users.
Nevertheless, in some fairly rare situations, some annoying effects may
occasionally occur. Even though these artifacts neither happen often
nor to everyone we want to eliminate the effects by providing the
following solution.
Issues reported as "Banding" and "Mirror/Ghost images"

Our engineering teams thoroughly investigated the root causes of these
effects. They have developed and tested a robust remedy - an upgrade
for the M8 - to eliminate any re-occurrence. We have taken extra
precautions to not only make sure that the problem does not surface
again, but that this remedy will enable every M8 to meet and exceed
Leica performance standards.

Cameras shipped from our factory as of November 27th, 2006 will be
equipped with the upgrade. Therefore, and because they will be tested
thoroughly, we are confident that they will be defect-free.

All customers having received their LEICA M8 before this delivery date
will be offered an upgrade free of charge in Leica Camera AG's Customer
Service in Solms. To upgrade your camera please, register yourself on
our website as of December 6th, 2006. After you have registered you
will be contacted by Customer Service to make an appointment to send in
your LEICA M8.
Please note that even without this upgrade all cameras delivered before
this date are in working order and can be used normally. Even so, we
recommend you to have the upgrade performed.
Above-average sensitivity for infrared light (synthetic fabrics are
rendered with a slight magenta offset)

During the development of the LEICA M8, we made important design
choices to insure that the camera delivers the quality in images the
Leica M System is known for. Keeping the protective glass cover on the
sensor as thin as possible on the one hand has the benefit of allowing
the full potential of Leica lenses on the LEICA M8 to be utilized with
respect to their sharpness and contrast rendition, but it also absorbs
less of the infrared light. In everyday photographical use the
resulting above-average sensitivity for infrared light may lead to a
faulty color rendition, especially in the case of synthetic fabrics
which - depending on the ambient light - cannot be rendered fully black
but only with a slight magenta offset.

Our solution: We will offer special screw-on type UV/IR filters for all
Leica M lenses. With respect to the Leica M's compact build the
combination of a thin absorption filter on the sensor and a screw-on
interference filter on the lens represents the best technical solution.

Red flag: the bandpass of interference filters changes with
viewing angle.

It completely eliminates the color offset caused by infrared light.
When using lenses from 16 to 35mm, we suggest opting for the 6-bit
coded ones, in order to prevent a color offset towards the edges.

6-bit????

No
disadvantages must be expected for the images when the LEICA M8 is
equipped with the latest firmware (from 1.10; available as of early
December 2006).

Yeah, right. Firmware does not fix out of band filter response.


Leica Camera AG offers every LEICA M8 customer a basic kit of two UV/IR
filters with diameters of her/his choice and free of charge. Delivery
will commence as of early February 2007. In order to receive the two
free IR/UV filters, please register yourself as of December 6th, 2006,
including your name and address as well as the camera's serial number.
After your registration you can order two filters of choice which will
be delivered to your address. Additional filters will be available from
your Leica dealer.
Continuing improvements through firmware updates

As is common with digital products, Leica Camera AG is constantly
working on improving firmware details such as in the case of the
automatic white balance. All improvements will be made available for
our customers as downloadable firmware updates.

We are confident these corrective technical measures will fulfil every
expectation of even the most demanding customers.

This sounds like a band aid that is going to fall off.

Roger

Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) wrote:
RichA wrote:

The introduction of Leica's first digital M series hasn't gone quite as
smoothly as they will have hoped, before the camera even reached owners
some reviewers spotted some issues with the imaging side of the camera
(Banding, Mirror/Ghost effect and IR sensitivity). Leica issued a
statement two weeks ago that they were aware and were working on a
solution. Today they have announced the 'action plan', firstly that the
Banding and Mirror/Ghost images issue can be rectified by returning
your camera to LEICA for repair (and that all new M8's leaving Solms
will not suffer from this problem). Secondly the solution for 'above
average' IR sensitivity are IR filters which attach to the front of the
lens, Leica will be offering two free filters to all M8 owners.

Press Release:
Upgrade for the LEICA M8 available

11/24/2006 - Since delivery of the LEICA M8 started as of the end of
October 2006 we have received the endorsement of many happy users.
Nevertheless, in some fairly rare situations, some annoying effects may
occasionally occur. Even though these artifacts neither happen often
nor to everyone we want to eliminate the effects by providing the
following solution.
Issues reported as "Banding" and "Mirror/Ghost images"

Our engineering teams thoroughly investigated the root causes of these
effects. They have developed and tested a robust remedy - an upgrade
for the M8 - to eliminate any re-occurrence. We have taken extra
precautions to not only make sure that the problem does not surface
again, but that this remedy will enable every M8 to meet and exceed
Leica performance standards.

Cameras shipped from our factory as of November 27th, 2006 will be
equipped with the upgrade. Therefore, and because they will be tested
thoroughly, we are confident that they will be defect-free.

All customers having received their LEICA M8 before this delivery date
will be offered an upgrade free of charge in Leica Camera AG's Customer
Service in Solms. To upgrade your camera please, register yourself on
our website as of December 6th, 2006. After you have registered you
will be contacted by Customer Service to make an appointment to send in
your LEICA M8.
Please note that even without this upgrade all cameras delivered before
this date are in working order and can be used normally. Even so, we
recommend you to have the upgrade performed.
Above-average sensitivity for infrared light (synthetic fabrics are
rendered with a slight magenta offset)

During the development of the LEICA M8, we made important design
choices to insure that the camera delivers the quality in images the
Leica M System is known for. Keeping the protective glass cover on the
sensor as thin as possible on the one hand has the benefit of allowing
the full potential of Leica lenses on the LEICA M8 to be utilized with
respect to their sharpness and contrast rendition, but it also absorbs
less of the infrared light. In everyday photographical use the
resulting above-average sensitivity for infrared light may lead to a
faulty color rendition, especially in the case of synthetic fabrics
which - depending on the ambient light - cannot be rendered fully black
but only with a slight magenta offset.

Our solution: We will offer special screw-on type UV/IR filters for all
Leica M lenses. With respect to the Leica M's compact build the
combination of a thin absorption filter on the sensor and a screw-on
interference filter on the lens represents the best technical solution.

Red flag: the bandpass of interference filters changes with
viewing angle.

It completely eliminates the color offset caused by infrared light.
When using lenses from 16 to 35mm, we suggest opting for the 6-bit
coded ones, in order to prevent a color offset towards the edges.

6-bit????

No
disadvantages must be expected for the images when the LEICA M8 is
equipped with the latest firmware (from 1.10; available as of early
December 2006).

Yeah, right. Firmware does not fix out of band filter response.


Leica Camera AG offers every LEICA M8 customer a basic kit of two UV/IR
filters with diameters of her/his choice and free of charge. Delivery
will commence as of early February 2007. In order to receive the two
free IR/UV filters, please register yourself as of December 6th, 2006,
including your name and address as well as the camera's serial number.
After your registration you can order two filters of choice which will
be delivered to your address. Additional filters will be available from
your Leica dealer.
Continuing improvements through firmware updates

As is common with digital products, Leica Camera AG is constantly
working on improving firmware details such as in the case of the
automatic white balance. All improvements will be made available for
our customers as downloadable firmware updates.

We are confident these corrective technical measures will fulfil every
expectation of even the most demanding customers.

This sounds like a band aid that is going to fall off.

I pretty much figured they'd do the filter fix. Scraping the Kodak
sensors and re-fitting them with new ones with a stronger IR filter
attached would have been....expensive. These sensors were spec'd for
Leica so I wonder if they were the ones who specified the weak IR
filter?


Roger

Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) wrote:

It completely eliminates the color offset caused by infrared light.
When using lenses from 16 to 35mm, we suggest opting for the 6-bit
coded ones, in order to prevent a color offset towards the edges.


6-bit????

Lens ID encoding so the firmware knows which lens is mounted allowing
for the aberation correction. Leica will add the codes to your existing
lenses (or at least some of them).


No
disadvantages must be expected for the images when the LEICA M8 is
equipped with the latest firmware (from 1.10; available as of early
December 2006).


Yeah, right. Firmware does not fix out of band filter response.


As is common with digital products, Leica Camera AG is constantly
working on improving firmware details such as in the case of the
automatic white balance. All improvements will be made available for
our customers as downloadable firmware updates.

We are confident these corrective technical measures will fulfil every
expectation of even the most demanding customers.


This sounds like a band aid that is going to fall off.

Roger

Every DSLR maker has had product introduction issues. Considering the
lack of manufacturing might at Leica and that it is not an electronics
co. at all, it is not surprising that they have had these issues.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

Alan Browne wrote:

Every DSLR maker has had product introduction issues. Considering the
lack of manufacturing might at Leica and that it is not an electronics
co. at all, it is not surprising that they have had these issues.



I don't think that one has to be a manufacturing giant to a) Have a
thorough understanding of IR contamination issues, b) Test their
solution to these issues.

In article om,
wrote:
b) Test their
solution to these issues.

That's the surprising part. If they had said during the introduction that
they had to accept some IR sensitivity as a trade-off to get the most out
of their lenses, then I guess that most people would have accepted that.

However, now they simply look incompetent.


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:

Every DSLR maker has had product introduction issues. Considering the
lack of manufacturing might at Leica and that it is not an electronics
co. at all, it is not surprising that they have had these issues.




I don't think that one has to be a manufacturing giant to a) Have a
thorough understanding of IR contamination issues, b) Test their
solution to these issues.

Any product line introduction carries risks that there will have been
things overlooked, under estimated for risk or over estimated for success.

In order to test for something, you first have to identify the risk or
problem and then design for it and test it. They may have not gone far
enough in their evaluation or assessment of the liklihood of the problem
appearing.

As for their "might" (not giantness) this goes to identifying the risks
before they occure.

I'm not apologizing for Leica. At the prices they charge and in
maintaining the Leica excellence ideal in all of their marketing, one
would expect flawless execution.

Prinicpally they also have debt (lots) and shareholders (somewhat
patient). This leads to pressure to get the product out and to not
bankrupt the place while doing so.

Cheers,
Alan






--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

"Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)"
wrote in message ...
SNIP
Our solution: We will offer special screw-on type UV/IR filters
for all
Leica M lenses. With respect to the Leica M's compact build the
combination of a thin absorption filter on the sensor and a
screw-on
interference filter on the lens represents the best technical
solution.

Red flag: the bandpass of interference filters changes with
viewing angle.

Yes, I already noticed that several years ago on my Powershot G3 when
testing the effects of IR contamination on color saturation/accuracy
with the B+W 486 IR/UV cut interference filter:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~bvdwolf/main/downloads/B+W_486_reflect.jpg .

At 7.0mm zoom position (=approx. 28mm at 35mm full frame equivalence):
http://www.xs4all.nl/~bvdwolf/main/downloads/G3_07-0_LM_486_C.jpg
it is already visible without manipulation on an out-of-focus ()linear
gamma graycard shot.

Even the 28.8mm (=approx.115mm @ 35mm FF equiv.) position is not void
of the effect, but might be obscured by detail:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~bvdwolf/main/downloads/G3_28-8_LM_486_C.jpg

SNIP
No disadvantages must be expected for the images when the LEICA M8
is equipped with the latest firmware (from 1.10; available as of
early
December 2006).

Yeah, right. Firmware does not fix out of band filter response.

Leica already had to use special offset micro-lenses to combat light
falloff issues, due to the non-retrofocus lens design on this M8
rangefinder. Not having to account for an SLR mirror box ("the Leica
M's compact build") allows more symmetrical lens designs, but
unfortunately (for angle of incidence issues) the exit pupil is closer
to the focus plane for normal to wide focal lengths.

The fact that their newer lenses are bar coded to detect the focal
length, and the (by design) thinner CCD IR filter window, suggests to
me that Leica was aware of the potential issues of oblique angles of
incidence, and has a postprocessing fix attempt in place to address
several issues (in addition to an attempt to mitigate the lack of an
AA-filter).

This sounds like a band aid that is going to fall off.

I agree, especially since in my opinion it is better to fundamentally
avoid these issues, rather than 'fix' them in postprocessing.
Aggregate 'fixes' tend to create their own need for further 'fixes'...

--
Bart