Nikon made me buy Canon

"Zebedee" wrote in message
...
I have been a Nikon SLR user for 20 years, using mainly FMs and
occasionally
an F3.

Having tried digital compacts, I wanted to get a digital SLR. I'm quite
keen
on manual focus lenses and see no reason why I should have to use
autofocus
lenses. I was pleased to note that the Nikon bayonet had not changed.

I asked Nikon about using my existing lenses from my FM on a D70 and they
said:
"The D70 needs electronic contacts on the lens with which to communicate
and
meter. Manual lenses (at least 99.9% of them)do not have these contacts
and
therefore the camera would be unable to communicate with such lenses. You
would therefore be able to use the camera in manual mode only and would
have
to use an external light meter to ascertain the correct exposure. YOu
would
obviously also not get TTL flash exposure."

Well, if I have to buy new lenses and a new camera, I'm darned well not
forking out for Nikon since they don't support their customers, I said.
Hence I bought a Canon 300D and an 18-55 lens. I shall purchase more
lenses - later.

Bye bye Nikon. You don't support your customer base so we're all migrating
to Canon!


Canon digitals don't support older manual focus lenses either, so I'm not
sure you made any kind of point.

Mark

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...
Zebedee wrote:

"David Dyer-Bennet" wrote in message
...

You do realize that Canon did a much worse thing a few years back,
right? When they went from the FD mount to whatever the auto-focus
system they use now is called, they made a *complete* flag-day change;
no forward or backward compatibility between the old and the new
systems.

Yes. They did BUT Nikon's F4 works with all Nikon MF lenses. So should
the
D70 etc. They don't.

they do not work with coolpix either.
if they were that old and canon, they would be useless.

to get professional features, you pay the price,

I was forced to buy a new system so I voted with my
wallet and bought Canon.

Whereas I still use my AIS Nikon lenses on my digital SLR perfectly
happily. And I can use my Nikon auto-focus lenses on my FM, too.
Significant forward and backwards compatibility.

Sure. you can use dAF lenses on an FM but NAI lenses won't work on a D70
which makes the whole exercise utterly pointless. Sure the lenses will
fit
physically but with no metering, what's the point? The system's as near
as
dammit incompatible and hence useless.

--
Yours

Zebedee

(Claiming asylum in an attempt
to escape paying his debts to
Dougal and Florence)

When Canon obsolesced (is there such a word?) my FD mount stuff, I voted
with my wallet, too. Bought more Canon stuff, EF mount, this time. Just
because a change was made doesn't seem to be a reason to cut your nose off
to spite your face, so to speak. I found the newer Canon cameras to be more
intuitive than Nikon or Minolta, just because they operated more like my old
ones. I'd have bet that Nikon owners would feel the same way about Nikon
bodies, be they MF, AF or digital.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...
Zebedee wrote:

"David Dyer-Bennet" wrote in message
...

You do realize that Canon did a much worse thing a few years back,
right? When they went from the FD mount to whatever the auto-focus
system they use now is called, they made a *complete* flag-day change;
no forward or backward compatibility between the old and the new
systems.

Yes. They did BUT Nikon's F4 works with all Nikon MF lenses. So should
the
D70 etc. They don't.

they do not work with coolpix either.
if they were that old and canon, they would be useless.

to get professional features, you pay the price,

I was forced to buy a new system so I voted with my
wallet and bought Canon.

Whereas I still use my AIS Nikon lenses on my digital SLR perfectly
happily. And I can use my Nikon auto-focus lenses on my FM, too.
Significant forward and backwards compatibility.

Sure. you can use dAF lenses on an FM but NAI lenses won't work on a D70
which makes the whole exercise utterly pointless. Sure the lenses will
fit
physically but with no metering, what's the point? The system's as near
as
dammit incompatible and hence useless.

--
Yours

Zebedee

(Claiming asylum in an attempt
to escape paying his debts to
Dougal and Florence)

When Canon obsolesced (is there such a word?) my FD mount stuff, I voted
with my wallet, too. Bought more Canon stuff, EF mount, this time. Just
because a change was made doesn't seem to be a reason to cut your nose off
to spite your face, so to speak. I found the newer Canon cameras to be more
intuitive than Nikon or Minolta, just because they operated more like my old
ones. I'd have bet that Nikon owners would feel the same way about Nikon
bodies, be they MF, AF or digital.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

"Zebedee" wrote in message
...
I have been a Nikon SLR user for 20 years, using mainly FMs and
occasionally
an F3.

Having tried digital compacts, I wanted to get a digital SLR. I'm
quite keen
on manual focus lenses and see no reason why I should have to use
autofocus
lenses. I was pleased to note that the Nikon bayonet had not changed.

I asked Nikon about using my existing lenses from my FM on a D70 and
they
said:
"The D70 needs electronic contacts on the lens with which to
communicate and
meter. Manual lenses (at least 99.9% of them)do not have these
contacts and
therefore the camera would be unable to communicate with such lenses.
You
would therefore be able to use the camera in manual mode only and
would have
to use an external light meter to ascertain the correct exposure. YOu
would
obviously also not get TTL flash exposure."

Well, if I have to buy new lenses and a new camera, I'm darned well
not
forking out for Nikon since they don't support their customers, I
said.
Hence I bought a Canon 300D and an 18-55 lens. I shall purchase more
lenses - later.

Bye bye Nikon. You don't support your customer base so we're all
migrating
to Canon!

A hissy fit made you buy Canon. I have basically one set of lenses for
my 3 month old D70 and my 27 year old F2AS (except for a Makinon reflex
and a Tamron teleconverter that won't fit the D70 and the 18-70 DX that
is only good for "creative" shots on the F2). My old (AI) Nikkor and
Series E lenses work just fine on my D70, with the limitations the Nikon
rep outllined to you. How well are your old Nikkors going on your
Canon?

--
Apteryx
Treat anger like gold. Spend it wisely or not at all.

"Zebedee" wrote in message
...
I have been a Nikon SLR user for 20 years, using mainly FMs and
occasionally
an F3.

Having tried digital compacts, I wanted to get a digital SLR. I'm
quite keen
on manual focus lenses and see no reason why I should have to use
autofocus
lenses. I was pleased to note that the Nikon bayonet had not changed.

I asked Nikon about using my existing lenses from my FM on a D70 and
they
said:
"The D70 needs electronic contacts on the lens with which to
communicate and
meter. Manual lenses (at least 99.9% of them)do not have these
contacts and
therefore the camera would be unable to communicate with such lenses.
You
would therefore be able to use the camera in manual mode only and
would have
to use an external light meter to ascertain the correct exposure. YOu
would
obviously also not get TTL flash exposure."

Well, if I have to buy new lenses and a new camera, I'm darned well
not
forking out for Nikon since they don't support their customers, I
said.
Hence I bought a Canon 300D and an 18-55 lens. I shall purchase more
lenses - later.

Bye bye Nikon. You don't support your customer base so we're all
migrating
to Canon!

A hissy fit made you buy Canon. I have basically one set of lenses for
my 3 month old D70 and my 27 year old F2AS (except for a Makinon reflex
and a Tamron teleconverter that won't fit the D70 and the 18-70 DX that
is only good for "creative" shots on the F2). My old (AI) Nikkor and
Series E lenses work just fine on my D70, with the limitations the Nikon
rep outllined to you. How well are your old Nikkors going on your
Canon?

--
Apteryx
Treat anger like gold. Spend it wisely or not at all.

Yes, but...how many Nikon lenses introduced since they started to make AF
bodies are incompatible with those same AF bodies. The only ones I can
think of are the VR lenses with bodies pre F/N80. And that's only the VR,
the rest of the lens is operational.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
"David Bindle" wrote in message
...
Canon stopped making FD mount and non AF bodies more than just a few years
ago (Early eighties?? )
They stopped making one product line... manual focus cameras and lenses
and decided to only make AF cameras and lenses. (EOS)
Virtually all AF Canon lenses since then are 100% compatible and 100%
functional with all Canon EOS (AF) bodies made since this time. (Except
for
that one 18-55 lens on the Rebel D)

There are numerous Nikon lenses that don't have 100% functionality with
Nikon bodies that were both made since then. Canon gained 100% through a
new lens mount. Nikon couldn't offer this because they believed they
could
do it all AND retain their lens mount. Buyers of Nikon have to do careful
research to find out such facts that AFS lenses would AF on the older F4
but
not on the newer F90 (N90), or that a favorite old MF lens wouldn't meter
properly on their new AF body. Nikon was claiming backwards compatibility
but would introduce new products that were not 100% compatible with their
older products. For some, the lens mount was more important, but for
others
the feature compatibility was more important.

It was a big issue in the mid eighties but hardly an argument for today...
either way...
Most people aren't pros and don't have more than 3 or 4 lenses.
(I said MOST... not all)

Nowadays... people interested in manual focus cameras can pick up
incredible
Canon FD L lens optics for cheap, due to the fact that Canon changed their
mount. Cheaper than MF Nikon equipment but just as good and sometimes
better...

D.B.


"David Dyer-Bennet" wrote in message
...
"Zebedee" writes:

Well, if I have to buy new lenses and a new camera, I'm darned well
not
forking out for Nikon since they don't support their customers, I
said.
Hence I bought a Canon 300D and an 18-55 lens. I shall purchase more
lenses - later.

Bye bye Nikon. You don't support your customer base so we're all
migrating
to Canon!

You do realize that Canon did a much worse thing a few years back,
right? When they went from the FD mount to whatever the auto-focus
system they use now is called, they made a *complete* flag-day change;
no forward or backward compatibility between the old and the new
systems.

Whereas I still use my AIS Nikon lenses on my digital SLR perfectly
happily. And I can use my Nikon auto-focus lenses on my FM, too.
Significant forward and backwards compatibility.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/
http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

Yes, but...how many Nikon lenses introduced since they started to make AF
bodies are incompatible with those same AF bodies. The only ones I can
think of are the VR lenses with bodies pre F/N80. And that's only the VR,
the rest of the lens is operational.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
"David Bindle" wrote in message
...
Canon stopped making FD mount and non AF bodies more than just a few years
ago (Early eighties?? )
They stopped making one product line... manual focus cameras and lenses
and decided to only make AF cameras and lenses. (EOS)
Virtually all AF Canon lenses since then are 100% compatible and 100%
functional with all Canon EOS (AF) bodies made since this time. (Except
for
that one 18-55 lens on the Rebel D)

There are numerous Nikon lenses that don't have 100% functionality with
Nikon bodies that were both made since then. Canon gained 100% through a
new lens mount. Nikon couldn't offer this because they believed they
could
do it all AND retain their lens mount. Buyers of Nikon have to do careful
research to find out such facts that AFS lenses would AF on the older F4
but
not on the newer F90 (N90), or that a favorite old MF lens wouldn't meter
properly on their new AF body. Nikon was claiming backwards compatibility
but would introduce new products that were not 100% compatible with their
older products. For some, the lens mount was more important, but for
others
the feature compatibility was more important.

It was a big issue in the mid eighties but hardly an argument for today...
either way...
Most people aren't pros and don't have more than 3 or 4 lenses.
(I said MOST... not all)

Nowadays... people interested in manual focus cameras can pick up
incredible
Canon FD L lens optics for cheap, due to the fact that Canon changed their
mount. Cheaper than MF Nikon equipment but just as good and sometimes
better...

D.B.


"David Dyer-Bennet" wrote in message
...
"Zebedee" writes:

Well, if I have to buy new lenses and a new camera, I'm darned well
not
forking out for Nikon since they don't support their customers, I
said.
Hence I bought a Canon 300D and an 18-55 lens. I shall purchase more
lenses - later.

Bye bye Nikon. You don't support your customer base so we're all
migrating
to Canon!

You do realize that Canon did a much worse thing a few years back,
right? When they went from the FD mount to whatever the auto-focus
system they use now is called, they made a *complete* flag-day change;
no forward or backward compatibility between the old and the new
systems.

Whereas I still use my AIS Nikon lenses on my digital SLR perfectly
happily. And I can use my Nikon auto-focus lenses on my FM, too.
Significant forward and backwards compatibility.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/
http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

"Arte Phacting" wrote in message
...
As a mere novice to photography it seems a shame to see so much
anti-support
from such big names.

Digital photography is a sea-change in taking images - it is a shame to
see
a customer base being dumped so badly. Didn't N also charge their own
customers for proprietery software bundle too?

If so, that really does make my nipples hurt. A digital camera does need
good software.

I'd like to see one of the big brands team up with PSCS as a bundle. Then
I
may (emphasis on may) part with my hard earned spondoolies to DSLR -

I mean DSLR + Lenses + software sorta makes sense in a bundle and to
assist
conversion from 35mm to digital

Artie


Bundling lenses would be hard, since different photographers have different
requirements. But you do see that done with Canon's Rebel D and the 18-55
EF-S, which by the way, only fits that camera, and Sigma bundling two of
their cheaper lenses with the SD10. But putting any more than one everyday
lens in a package runs the risk of having a lens some photographers have
little or no use for, and leaving one or more out that some may really want.
Fer instance, when I went to AF, I really wanted the Canon 100-400 IS, and
felt I had little need for wide angle zooms like the 17-35L, which at the
time was going for about $1200. I bought Canon's 28-135, 100-400, 100 f2
and 50 f1.8. (who could resist a fast lens for $70??) Then I bought Sigma's
17-35, which sold for under $500. If any of those lenses were bundled with
the camera I bought, that might have been nice, but what if one of them had
been the Canon 17-35L?

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

"Arte Phacting" wrote in message
...
As a mere novice to photography it seems a shame to see so much
anti-support
from such big names.

Digital photography is a sea-change in taking images - it is a shame to
see
a customer base being dumped so badly. Didn't N also charge their own
customers for proprietery software bundle too?

If so, that really does make my nipples hurt. A digital camera does need
good software.

I'd like to see one of the big brands team up with PSCS as a bundle. Then
I
may (emphasis on may) part with my hard earned spondoolies to DSLR -

I mean DSLR + Lenses + software sorta makes sense in a bundle and to
assist
conversion from 35mm to digital

Artie


Bundling lenses would be hard, since different photographers have different
requirements. But you do see that done with Canon's Rebel D and the 18-55
EF-S, which by the way, only fits that camera, and Sigma bundling two of
their cheaper lenses with the SD10. But putting any more than one everyday
lens in a package runs the risk of having a lens some photographers have
little or no use for, and leaving one or more out that some may really want.
Fer instance, when I went to AF, I really wanted the Canon 100-400 IS, and
felt I had little need for wide angle zooms like the 17-35L, which at the
time was going for about $1200. I bought Canon's 28-135, 100-400, 100 f2
and 50 f1.8. (who could resist a fast lens for $70??) Then I bought Sigma's
17-35, which sold for under $500. If any of those lenses were bundled with
the camera I bought, that might have been nice, but what if one of them had
been the Canon 17-35L?

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

"Apteryx" wrote in message
...
A hissy fit made you buy Canon. I have basically one set of lenses for
my 3 month old D70 and my 27 year old F2AS (except for a Makinon reflex
and a Tamron teleconverter that won't fit the D70 and the 18-70 DX that
is only good for "creative" shots on the F2). My old (AI) Nikkor and
Series E lenses work just fine on my D70, with the limitations the Nikon
rep outllined to you. How well are your old Nikkors going on your
Canon?

since I had to go AF to use digital then I wasn't forking out £800 for a D70
body that won't accept any of my MF lenses and work with them when i could
get a D300 for £500 and a zoom lens for £200. Just what's the point in
buying Nikon any more?

--
Yours

Zebedee

(Claiming asylum in an attempt
to escape paying his debts to
Dougal and Florence)