Build quality?

"RichA" wrote in message
oups.com...

Charles Schuler wrote:
"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
...
This is one of the least objective and least useful descriptors out
there,
and is overused, in my humble opinion.

I appreciate all of the responses and will go with my gut feeling. I
will
ignore anecdotal comments about build quality, because they are mostly of
no
merit or value (in my opinion).

Blindly accepting horrible quality is an American trait. The dollar is
EVERYTHING, quality counts for next to nothing. The driver for this is
the genetic predisposition to have "instant gratification." For e.g.,
while a European may save his money for a year and spend $2000 on a
mountain bike, Joe Sixpack American runs down to the local cut-rate
sports store and spends
$200-$300 because they just "haaaaavvvvee" to have the product RIGHT
NOW! A nation that values quality that little is a great target for a
huge big box store that gets 90% of it's product from China...otherwise
know as Walmart.

Rich, before you start making blanket statements, especially exaggerated
ones, it's best to check one's target audience. A lot of Europeans will do
the same thing as any American, and vice versa. Some of us will save to buy
the best, and some of them will jump at what they can afford. And, too,
some people just can't afford better than WalMart, or have to stretch their
budget to buy from Target. Not everyone lives in your version of a world of
privilege.
Sure, Americans aren't perfect, but I've not seen any other nation that
doesn't have its faults. Except maybe the Dutch, but I don't know many
Netherlanders...
On the other hand, there's guys like you, who can't wait to castigate others
on subjects about which you either know little, or care about less. Such a
sad life you must lead.

--
Skip Middleton
www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
www.pbase.com/skipm

Skip wrote:
"RichA" wrote in message
oups.com...

Charles Schuler wrote:
"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
...
This is one of the least objective and least useful descriptors out
there,
and is overused, in my humble opinion.

I appreciate all of the responses and will go with my gut feeling. I
will
ignore anecdotal comments about build quality, because they are mostly of
no
merit or value (in my opinion).

Blindly accepting horrible quality is an American trait. The dollar is
EVERYTHING, quality counts for next to nothing. The driver for this is
the genetic predisposition to have "instant gratification." For e.g.,
while a European may save his money for a year and spend $2000 on a
mountain bike, Joe Sixpack American runs down to the local cut-rate
sports store and spends
$200-$300 because they just "haaaaavvvvee" to have the product RIGHT
NOW! A nation that values quality that little is a great target for a
huge big box store that gets 90% of it's product from China...otherwise
know as Walmart.

Rich, before you start making blanket statements, especially exaggerated
ones, it's best to check one's target audience. A lot of Europeans will do
the same thing as any American, and vice versa.

They drove Walmart OUT of Germany.

Some of us will save to buy
the best, and some of them will jump at what they can afford. And, too,
some people just can't afford better than WalMart, or have to stretch their
budget to buy from Target.

Makes me wonder how they got along without those two stores.

Not everyone lives in your version of a world of
privilege.

There is nothing privileged about waiting to buy something decent
rather than blowing
money on junk. No one says they need to go out and somehow buy a
1DsMkII. Thankfully, the reach to quality is much nearer and less dear
than that.

Sure, Americans aren't perfect, but I've not seen any other nation that
doesn't have its faults. Except maybe the Dutch, but I don't know many
Netherlanders...
On the other hand, there's guys like you, who can't wait to castigate others
on subjects about which you either know little, or care about less. Such a
sad life you must lead.

Pot, kettle, etc.

Lets say the base level DSLR was the Canon 30D. So some people who
would have spent
$700 on a Rebel XT end up waiting a while longer to get a FAR superior
camera. Or (heaven forbid) they actually give up something else to
obtain it. At what point does the World fall into ruin because of
this?

There is a persistent myth circulating today that families need two
earners to survive. Some do, as always, but the basic middle class
person has two earners today because they have things they didn't have
years ago. Like $100/month cable TV bills, $100/month cell phone
bills, 13 year old kids who have to have $300 iPods, computers, etc.
The percentage of disposible income now allocated for personal
electronics is about 10x what it was 30 years ago. So, your choices
are simple, have it all and have it all mediocre, or have less and
maybe have better quality.
-Rich

"Skip" wrote in message
...
SNIP
Sure, Americans aren't perfect, but I've not seen any other nation that
doesn't have its faults. Except maybe the Dutch, but I don't know many
Netherlanders...

I dated a Dutch girl for a while, and believe me, they DO have their
faults...

SCNR ;-)

Cheers,
ink

"RichA" wrote in message
ups.com...

Skip wrote:
"RichA" wrote in message
oups.com...



Blindly accepting horrible quality is an American trait. The dollar is
EVERYTHING, quality counts for next to nothing. The driver for this is
the genetic predisposition to have "instant gratification." For e.g.,
while a European may save his money for a year and spend $2000 on a
mountain bike, Joe Sixpack American runs down to the local cut-rate
sports store and spends
$200-$300 because they just "haaaaavvvvee" to have the product RIGHT
NOW! A nation that values quality that little is a great target for a
huge big box store that gets 90% of it's product from China...otherwise
know as Walmart.

Rich, before you start making blanket statements, especially exaggerated
ones, it's best to check one's target audience. A lot of Europeans will
do
the same thing as any American, and vice versa.

They drove Walmart OUT of Germany.

Only because of a combination of nationalism and better established
retailers.

Some of us will save to buy
the best, and some of them will jump at what they can afford. And, too,
some people just can't afford better than WalMart, or have to stretch
their
budget to buy from Target.

Makes me wonder how they got along without those two stores.

Not as well. Those marketers brought a level of retail merchandise to a
group of people who could not afford things at the price a ma and pa store
had to charge to maintain margins. Unfortunately, those same retailers
drove the ma and pa stores into the ground, plus Sears, Montgomery Wards and
nearly Kmart (now the proud owner of Sears), none of whom offered the
quality of merchandise at a competitive price.

Not everyone lives in your version of a world of
privilege.

There is nothing privileged about waiting to buy something decent
rather than blowing
money on junk. No one says they need to go out and somehow buy a
1DsMkII. Thankfully, the reach to quality is much nearer and less dear
than that.

It is previleged to be able to afford to buy what you want, rather than what
you can afford.

Sure, Americans aren't perfect, but I've not seen any other nation that
doesn't have its faults. Except maybe the Dutch, but I don't know many
Netherlanders...
On the other hand, there's guys like you, who can't wait to castigate
others
on subjects about which you either know little, or care about less. Such
a
sad life you must lead.

Pot, kettle, etc.

Lets say the base level DSLR was the Canon 30D. So some people who
would have spent
$700 on a Rebel XT end up waiting a while longer to get a FAR superior
camera. Or (heaven forbid) they actually give up something else to
obtain it. At what point does the World fall into ruin because of
this?

What about the people who have to stretch their budgets, wait "a while
longer" or give up something to get a Rebel XT? Not everyone can afford the
better item, no matter what. Good lord, compare the price of a film SLR to
the current prices of digital SLRs. I wonder why anyone buys DSLRs except
those who absolutely need them, which would eliminate the market for the
Rebel XT/D40/D50 and maybe event the higher lineups like the 30D and D200.

There is a persistent myth circulating today that families need two
earners to survive. Some do, as always, but the basic middle class
person has two earners today because they have things they didn't have
years ago. Like $100/month cable TV bills, $100/month cell phone
bills, 13 year old kids who have to have $300 iPods, computers, etc.
The percentage of disposible income now allocated for personal
electronics is about 10x what it was 30 years ago. So, your choices
are simple, have it all and have it all mediocre, or have less and
maybe have better quality.
-Rich

I can't argue that last point, it's true, at least in most areas. But to
have any quality of life in San Diego, for instance, a minimum income of
about $40,000 is supposedly required, poverty level is $28,000. At $12 an
hour, even, it takes two to get along around here.
There's a third choice, have most of it, and have it good.
--
Skip Middleton
www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
www.pbase.com/skipm

Skip wrote:

Sure, Americans aren't perfect, but I've not seen any other nation that
doesn't have its faults. Except maybe the Dutch, but I don't know many
Netherlanders...

They are anything but prudish, have a real sexual education (and
don't think celibacy is THE option, either) ... and happen to
have the lowest percentage of teenage mothers in all of Europe,
about 1/10 of what the USA has to cope with.

That obviously is a fault, since these facts don't happen to match
the theories of those advancing certain methods in the US of A,
so an invasion is in order.

-Wolfgang

"Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote in message
...
Skip wrote:

Sure, Americans aren't perfect, but I've not seen any other nation that
doesn't have its faults. Except maybe the Dutch, but I don't know many
Netherlanders...

They are anything but prudish, have a real sexual education (and
don't think celibacy is THE option, either) ... and happen to
have the lowest percentage of teenage mothers in all of Europe,
about 1/10 of what the USA has to cope with.

That obviously is a fault, since these facts don't happen to match
the theories of those advancing certain methods in the US of A,
so an invasion is in order.

-Wolfgang

Yes, but I hear that they practice involuntary euthanasia on people deemed
to having medical conditions that make their lives not worth living.

Very frightening, and more associated with Nazism than with enlightenment.
Imagine having your right to live being decided by others!

"Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote in message
...
Skip wrote:

Sure, Americans aren't perfect, but I've not seen any other nation that
doesn't have its faults. Except maybe the Dutch, but I don't know many
Netherlanders...

They are anything but prudish, have a real sexual education (and
don't think celibacy is THE option, either) ... and happen to
have the lowest percentage of teenage mothers in all of Europe,
about 1/10 of what the USA has to cope with.

That obviously is a fault, since these facts don't happen to match
the theories of those advancing certain methods in the US of A,
so an invasion is in order.

-Wolfgang

Y'know, that's an invasion I just might go along with, if not join in on!
G

--
Skip Middleton
www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
www.pbase.com/skipm

Skip wrote:
"Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote in message
...
Skip wrote:

Sure, Americans aren't perfect, but I've not seen any other nation that
doesn't have its faults. Except maybe the Dutch, but I don't know many
Netherlanders...
They are anything but prudish, have a real sexual education (and
don't think celibacy is THE option, either) ... and happen to
have the lowest percentage of teenage mothers in all of Europe,
about 1/10 of what the USA has to cope with.

That obviously is a fault, since these facts don't happen to match
the theories of those advancing certain methods in the US of A,
so an invasion is in order.

-Wolfgang

Y'know, that's an invasion I just might go along with, if not join in on!
G

I was rather hoping the Dutch would invade over here, and teach a few
lessons along the way.

--
john mcwilliams

"jeremy" wrote in message
news:mLAph.6323$Mf2.3018@trndny01...
SNIP
Yes, but I hear that they practice involuntary euthanasia on people
deemed to having medical conditions that make their lives not worth
living.

You've heard wrong, unless you believe some of the misinformation
being spread by some lobbyists in the USA that I've heard on this
topic. One can only hope they are misinformed, rather than having an
agenda.

It's more likely something to do with ethics versus dogma, that we
allow people to choose (in a carefully layed out and documented
procedure) between prolonged unbearable suffering which unavoidably
leads to death, and a more humane end of their life (carried out under
medical supervision). There's nothing involuntary about it, it's a
personal documented choice, and doctors can also refuse to cooperate.

--
Bart

"Skip" wrote in message
...

Y'know, that's an invasion I just might go along with, if not join
in on! G

In fact the "The Hague Invasion Act"
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/08/aspa080302.htm was signed by G.W.
Bush in 2002, perhaps some alterior motives were behind it? ;-)

--
Bart