Katz eye focusing screen.

Robert Coe wrote:
: It looks like this:
: http://edgehill.net/Misc/photography/viewfinder

I'm surprised it displays the AF points. I could swear that the last time I
looked, the Katz site said that the focus points don't get shown. Is this a
recent improvement? What kind of camera did you install it on? (I forget
whether you belong to the Hatfields or the McCoys.)

I can't say for other makes, but Nikon's focus points are
projected, and not a function of the screen itself. The Katz
Eye screen have always shown the focus points.

I had a screen just like yours on my Nikon F-2 and thought it was great. I'd
love to have one on my XTi, but not if I have to give up the focus points.

Bob

(I guess I should explain that allusion for non-US readers. The Hatfields and
the McCoys were two large extended families in the eastern US (Kentucky or
West Virginia, I believe) that engaged for several years in a savage, bloody
fued - sort of like the Nikon and Canon partisans of today!) ;^)

All cousins, and married to each other's sisters, if not
their own...

It really *is* just like the partisans here!

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

Robert Coe wrote:

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 04:15:10 GMT, Paul Furman wrote:
: Matt Clara wrote:
:
: Paul Furman wrote:
:
: I got my Katz eye focusing screen...
:
: There is an additional larger circle in the frame also. I don't know why
: it's there and I'd rather not have it but not a big deal. I set the grid
: lines to show for help with keeping horizons straight and now the 8x10
: crop lines and two circles and split prism and collar: it's pretty
: cluttered frankly :-)
:
: The big circle around that likely designates
: the center weighted focusing area, though I can't say for sure.
:
: There is already a dashed circle on the viewfinder among the AF points.
: This one is outside that... maybe a guide for framing portraits?
:
: It looks like this:
: http://edgehill.net/Misc/photography/viewfinder

I'm surprised it displays the AF points. I could swear that the last time I
looked, the Katz site said that the focus points don't get shown. Is this a
recent improvement? What kind of camera did you install it on? (I forget
whether you belong to the Hatfields or the McCoys.)

I had a screen just like yours on my Nikon F-2 and thought it was great. I'd
love to have one on my XTi, but not if I have to give up the focus points.


I'm a McCoy..er.. Nikon D200... it seems to vary by model, the version
for the Xti loses AF points. They can engrave the points for extra but
the active one won't light up, you'd have to use the LCD on the back.
This is not the case for other Canon models. There is a slight change in
some metering modes with slow lenses also:
http://www.katzeyeoptics.com/item--Katz-Eye-Focusing-Screen-for-the-Canon-400D-Rebel-XTi-Kiss-Dig-X--prod_400D.html
The D200 version has an impact on only spot metering with slow lenses.

(I guess I should explain that allusion for non-US readers. The Hatfields and
the McCoys were two large extended families in the eastern US (Kentucky or
West Virginia, I believe) that engaged for several years in a savage, bloody
fued - sort of like the Nikon and Canon partisans of today!) ;^)


--
Paul Furman Photography
http://edgehill.net
Bay Natives Nursery
http://www.baynatives.com

Matt Clara wrote:
Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:

Agreed! It's a total pain in the ass for macro.

Maybe that's because split prisms don't work in the macro range? One
side blacks out.

The microprism collar doesn't seem to work at 1:1 but the split prism
does, although not quite as well. They made some improvement over the
old technology where it also works on lenses as slow as f/11 where the
old ones went black at f/5.6

--
Paul Furman Photography
http://edgehill.net
Bay Natives Nursery
http://www.baynatives.com

On Sep 23, 11:19 am, Paul Furman wrote:
Matt Clara wrote:
Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:

Agreed! It's a total pain in the ass for macro.

Maybe that's because split prisms don't work in the macro range? One
side blacks out.

The microprism collar doesn't seem to work at 1:1 but the split prism
does, although not quite as well. They made some improvement over the
old technology where it also works on lenses as slow as f/11 where the
old ones went black at f/5.6



My Nikon split prism for my F3HP blacks out on one side when I try to
do macro, particularly with the bellows, so does my Mamiya RB67's.
You can hold your eye back a little bit, and regain use of the split
screen, but then your head isn't braced, and your a little farther
from the "split" to see it and line up the two halves.

--
www.mattclara.com

"Matt Clara" wrote:

My Nikon split prism for my F3HP blacks out on one side when
I try to do macro, particularly with the bellows, so does my
Mamiya RB67's. You can hold your eye back a little bit, and
regain use of the split screen, but then your head isn't
braced, and your a little farther from the "split" to see it
and line up the two halves.

That's likely because of the "bellows effect." At 1:1, an
f/2.8 lens is effectively an f/5.6 lens, and most split image
focus aids are only marginally usable at f/5.6 and unusable
by f/8. The Katz eye prism claims to be usable down to f/11,
but I've held off on buying/installing one since Nikon USA
considers it a warranty-voiding modification.

--
Michael Benveniste --
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $419. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.

"Michael Benveniste" wrote:
"Matt Clara" wrote:

My Nikon split prism for my F3HP blacks out on one side when
I try to do macro, particularly with the bellows, so does my
Mamiya RB67's. You can hold your eye back a little bit, and
regain use of the split screen, but then your head isn't
braced, and your a little farther from the "split" to see it
and line up the two halves.

That's likely because of the "bellows effect." At 1:1, an
f/2.8 lens is effectively an f/5.6 lens, and most split image
focus aids are only marginally usable at f/5.6 and unusable
by f/8. The Katz eye prism claims to be usable down to f/11,
but I've held off on buying/installing one since Nikon USA
considers it a warranty-voiding modification.

Really? That would be a bit silly of Nikon... and I
find it pretty hard to believe. It *is* a customer
replaceable component, no different than the carrying
strap, for example.

But I still don't see that as a problem anyway. If you
warranty need work done, just put the original screen
back in before handing it to Nikon.

It's not like they can tell it was ever there...

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

On Sep 23, 6:10 pm, "Michael Benveniste"
wrote:
"Matt Clara" wrote:
My Nikon split prism for my F3HP blacks out on one side when
I try to do macro, particularly with the bellows, so does my
Mamiya RB67's. You can hold your eye back a little bit, and
regain use of the split screen, but then your head isn't
braced, and your a little farther from the "split" to see it
and line up the two halves.

That's likely because of the "bellows effect." At 1:1, an
f/2.8 lens is effectively an f/5.6 lens, and most split image
focus aids are only marginally usable at f/5.6 and unusable
by f/8. The Katz eye prism claims to be usable down to f/11,
but I've held off on buying/installing one since Nikon USA
considers it a warranty-voiding modification.


I just installed Maxwell Hi-Lux screens in both of them. Works a
trick.
www.mattclara.com/maxwell/

--
www.mattclara.com

"Paul Furman" wrote in message ...

I got my Katz eye focusing screen in the mail yesterday and installed it today. Installation instructions (slow loading PDF):
http://www.katzeyeoptics.com/files/D200.PDF

The split prism center aid does indeed help with manual focusing, in particular I had a heck of a time without it focusing the old
28mm f/2 at medium distances and even where I thought it was easy like closeups, the focusing aid gives me a little better
confirmation.

I'm not sure what purpose the microprism collar serves. Hmm, OK:
http://www.brightscreen.com/styles.html
"shows a pattern of dots (microprisms) that are highly visible when the camera is not in focus, and gradually disappear when the
subject is calibrated into correct focus. This aid is particularly beneficial for moving subjects."
Perhaps it will prove useful... it does make the whole viewfinder rather complex though. The blur of a sharp edge is actually
larger on the background ground glass than within the collar but with a little testing, I see that the collar is useful.

I did not get the OptiBrite treatment as it can throw off the meter and supposedly actually makes it harder to focus on areas in
the background (I'm not sure if this last part is correct). I did get the 8x10 cropping lines... I'll have to train myself to use
them but it's really anoying when someone requests an 8x10 print and it doesn't look right cropped. There is an additional larger
circle in the frame also. I don't know why it's there and I'd rather not have it but not a big deal. I set the grid lines to show
for help with keeping horizons straight and now the 8x10 crop lines and two circles and split prism and collar: it's pretty
cluttered frankly :-)

With teleconverters (and slower lenses) the focusing aids do not work as well and half the circle and half the microprisms go
black depending on eye position. They have improved this over older designs but it's still a factor.

The out of focus rendering is odd. When OOF, the background looks more hazy, like ground glass, not clear... and OOF circles take
on a donut shape. As I recall, the factory focusing screen had a sort of granular texture in OOF areas which was not very
representative of the final image either so this may even be an improvement, I'm not sure. It would be interesting to compare side
by side; I'm working on memory now.

--
Paul Furman Photography

Funny - back in the "good old days" with really sharp Nikon
viewfinders (before the N7007 and the N90, and before the
center of my focus eye went soft), the first thing I did when
I got a new body (which came with that %$#& split-image
rangefinder and useless microprism, that just spoiled the view
and didn't help at all with focusing [the center of the split needs
to be on what? perpendicular edge how's that for
handy? for accuracy, assuming 1/2 doesn't go dark - and
I never could get Nikon's microprism to look different with
the lens in or out of focus] - and it all just slowed me down)
was to yank it out and replace it with the matte plus Fresnel
screen that was so sharp that I could beat any AF system for
accuracy and focus speed (until the F100/F5 came along,
as well as my eye problem...). Fortunately, Nikon has again
returned to making sharp matte screens (with diopter
adjustment, too!), making an N80 almost as easy to focus as
the F3/F2/F or the FE/FM/FA/8008. These matte screens
give a better idea of what the texture and "feel" of OOF
areas will I look like, also. I think I will not be paying extra
for a screen type I have many of on my shelves since I didn't
like them much when they came with the cameras...;-)
--
David Ruether

http://www.donferrario.com/ruether

David Ruether wrote:
Paul Furman wrote

I got my Katz eye focusing screen in the mail yesterday and installed it today. Installation instructions (slow loading PDF):
http://www.katzeyeoptics.com/files/D200.PDF

The split prism center aid does indeed help with manual focusing, in particular I had a heck of a time without it focusing the old
28mm f/2 at medium distances and even where I thought it was easy like closeups, the focusing aid gives me a little better
confirmation.

Funny - back in the "good old days" with really sharp Nikon
viewfinders (before the N7007 and the N90, and before the
center of my focus eye went soft), the first thing I did when
I got a new body (which came with that %$#& split-image
rangefinder and useless microprism, that just spoiled the view
and didn't help at all with focusing [the center of the split needs
to be on what? perpendicular edge how's that for
handy? for accuracy, assuming 1/2 doesn't go dark - and
I never could get Nikon's microprism to look different with
the lens in or out of focus] - and it all just slowed me down)
was to yank it out and replace it with the matte plus Fresnel
screen

Is that maybe what comes in the D200? The OOF does have a granular look
to it. Still, it's cropped frame and not 100% either, even if it is a
heck of a lot better than my D70 viewfinder was.

that was so sharp that I could beat any AF system for
accuracy and focus speed (until the F100/F5 came along,
as well as my eye problem...). Fortunately, Nikon has again
returned to making sharp matte screens (with diopter
adjustment, too!), making an N80 almost as easy to focus as
the F3/F2/F or the FE/FM/FA/8008. These matte screens
give a better idea of what the texture and "feel" of OOF
areas will I look like, also. I think I will not be paying extra
for a screen type I have many of on my shelves since I didn't
like them much when they came with the cameras...;-)

There are trade-offs but like I said, lenses like the 28mm f/2 & fast
50mm are really hard to focus at distances more than a few feet away and
it does help with that.

--
Paul Furman Photography
http://edgehill.net
Bay Natives Nursery
http://www.baynatives.com

Michael Benveniste wrote:

"Matt Clara" wrote:

My Nikon split prism for my F3HP blacks out on one side when
I try to do macro, particularly with the bellows, so does my
Mamiya RB67's. You can hold your eye back a little bit, and
regain use of the split screen, but then your head isn't
braced, and your a little farther from the "split" to see it
and line up the two halves.

That's likely because of the "bellows effect." At 1:1, an
f/2.8 lens is effectively an f/5.6 lens, and most split image
focus aids are only marginally usable at f/5.6 and unusable
by f/8. The Katz eye prism claims to be usable down to f/11,

The Katzeye worked at f/8 for telephoto and on my 105/2.8 macro with
14mm extension plus +2 diopter closeup lens but it's not necessary or
even useful... it's so easy to see what's in focus... at least it
doesn't go black. It might be helpful for copy work. On a bellows with
major extension, blackout is probably a problem.

PS I think the VR works for extreme macro... at least it does help
stabilize the view in the viewfinder.

but I've held off on buying/installing one since Nikon USA
considers it a warranty-voiding modification.

You have to keep things real clean, it's possible to get dust trapped
between the screen and the AF (metering?) sensor. It is pretty tedious
to install. It went in a little off center and I didn't want to redo
that... it doesn't really matter.

--
Paul Furman Photography
http://edgehill.net
Bay Natives Nursery
http://www.baynatives.com