Pan F + soon te be history ???

The Wogster wrote:

I'm in Canada, so some of those emulsions may not be available here, I
know I can order from the US, but with exchange and brokerage fees, the
72 images I shot in Algonquin 2 weeks ago, would cost both arms, both
legs, and an ear, plus first born male child.....

Ah. Yes. Canada. Seems a bad choice if you're looking to buy niche
items inexpensively... In fact, someone should probably set Canada
straight on the way they're strangling free trade with their ridiculous
personal importation situation -- doesn't it violate NAFTA or something?
Nope, I'm not volunteering.

Perhaps the simplest way, if you have a darkroom, is to set up stops on
a paper cutter and use it (in the dark, of course -- careful of your
fingers!) to cut down 4x5 film, if you want to use a 9x12 plate camera.
Alternately, you might check if there's an importer in Canada who
operates more or less like jandcphoto.com or retrophoto.co.uk (assuming
I remembered that second URL correctly) -- something along the lines of
a fotoimpex.ca would be perfect.

I did in my hunting find Adox is now based in Canada, their Bluefire
film looks interesting, might like to try a roll, once I get my film
scanner..... Might be a good replacement for Tech-Pan users.

Well, um, no. Or yes, Bluefire Police would probably make a fine
replacement for Tech Pan once the Tech Pan junkies quit whining; it's
nothing more or less than Copex Rapid and it works fine for me in 16 mm
without exotic developers; even Agfa makes a developer for continuous
tone archiving of color originals with it, so direct photographic use
isn't so far from its intended venue.

But Adox isn't based in Canada; rather, the fellow who runs Frugal
Photographer seems to have acquired the Canadian trademark for the Adox
name (probably by registering where it didn't exist before), even though
he has nothing really to do with the European Adox, which (as I
understand it) went out of business some time ago, with the name and
possibly one or two film formulations bought up by another European film
manufacturer (I don't recall which).

What you want, for 9x12 and everyday use, is probably Fomapan 100 or
Efke PL100; I've use the Fomapan (near the end of a 50 sheet box) and
liked it well enough to order another box. The other stuff is specialty
items. If you can only get 4x5, I'd recommend either T-Max 100 or
320TXP for cutting down, though HP5+ would be a fine alternate if Ilford
products are easier to get or you just like them.

Another option, if you're going to have to import and/or cut film in the
dark anyway, is to buy a roll of the aerographic film from that eBay
seller; it's Plus-X with extended red sensitivity on a stiff but thin
base, and is reported to work well for cut film applications (at least
by the seller); importing a single roll would keep you in film for a
year or more even if you shoot ten times as many sheets as I do.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

On 10/15/2004 12:32 PM Donald Qualls spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 10/15/2004 8:26 AM Donald Qualls spake thus:

jjs wrote:

BTW, I see no reason to spend so much time here trying to obviate a
real bellows with half-assed solutions that have been tried over and
over and found not to work. Spend a few dollars on a real bellows,
even one that needs repair, fix it and get on with making pictures!

Ah, so *that's* what you're on about. God forbid those of us with
little or no money to spend try to find a way to make the pictures we
want. Or didn't you read the early parts of the thread, about the
fact that some of us (like me) can't afford $200 for a well-used
camera that probably needs $300 in repairs before it's usable?
Photography is only for those who can afford to dump a grand or two to
test the waters?

Oh, come on: I'm sure a cheap-ass scrounger[1] like yourself can easily
come up with a usable bellows for a camera for far less than those
prices. I know; I've found them myself.

Well, it depends on what camera. You want a bellows to fit an
Isolette/Speedex (I know I do, times at least two)? Good luck finding a
"usable" bellows without paying for a new one. You want one for a 9x12
cm plate camera? I guess you could do what the seller of my Ica Ideal
did, and glue on an old one (fabric, JJS -- no, not a single layer, but
fabric both inside and out) from a 3x4 camera. After all, no one could
seriously plan to take pictures with such an ancient piece of junk, so
they'll never notice that it's both cracking in all the folds, and 1/4"
too small all around. It's recently occurred to me that the cheapest
way to fix that one might be to get a roll film Polaroid -- the kind
that get converted to 4x5 -- and take the bellows from it. I certainly
don't expect to find too many good bellows in non-working plattenkameren
from 70 years ago...

Well, maybe you need to readjust your expectations. I've found plenty of them,
and for cheap, too. Some from a local antique photographic dealer (now out of
business, unfortunately), and some from eBay. Check auctions for basket-case
folding cameras; some of them go for a song. In most cases, unless there's
been water damage or a bad case of mold, the bellows will be intact, maybe
needing a little patching up.


--
Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a
really easy way: stop participating in it.

- Noam Chomsky

On 10/15/2004 12:32 PM Donald Qualls spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 10/15/2004 8:26 AM Donald Qualls spake thus:

jjs wrote:

BTW, I see no reason to spend so much time here trying to obviate a
real bellows with half-assed solutions that have been tried over and
over and found not to work. Spend a few dollars on a real bellows,
even one that needs repair, fix it and get on with making pictures!

Ah, so *that's* what you're on about. God forbid those of us with
little or no money to spend try to find a way to make the pictures we
want. Or didn't you read the early parts of the thread, about the
fact that some of us (like me) can't afford $200 for a well-used
camera that probably needs $300 in repairs before it's usable?
Photography is only for those who can afford to dump a grand or two to
test the waters?

Oh, come on: I'm sure a cheap-ass scrounger[1] like yourself can easily
come up with a usable bellows for a camera for far less than those
prices. I know; I've found them myself.

Well, it depends on what camera. You want a bellows to fit an
Isolette/Speedex (I know I do, times at least two)? Good luck finding a
"usable" bellows without paying for a new one. You want one for a 9x12
cm plate camera? I guess you could do what the seller of my Ica Ideal
did, and glue on an old one (fabric, JJS -- no, not a single layer, but
fabric both inside and out) from a 3x4 camera. After all, no one could
seriously plan to take pictures with such an ancient piece of junk, so
they'll never notice that it's both cracking in all the folds, and 1/4"
too small all around. It's recently occurred to me that the cheapest
way to fix that one might be to get a roll film Polaroid -- the kind
that get converted to 4x5 -- and take the bellows from it. I certainly
don't expect to find too many good bellows in non-working plattenkameren
from 70 years ago...

Well, maybe you need to readjust your expectations. I've found plenty of them,
and for cheap, too. Some from a local antique photographic dealer (now out of
business, unfortunately), and some from eBay. Check auctions for basket-case
folding cameras; some of them go for a song. In most cases, unless there's
been water damage or a bad case of mold, the bellows will be intact, maybe
needing a little patching up.


--
Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a
really easy way: stop participating in it.

- Noam Chomsky

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 10/15/2004 12:32 PM Donald Qualls spake thus:

Well, it depends on what camera. You want a bellows to fit an
Isolette/Speedex (I know I do, times at least two)? Good luck finding
a "usable" bellows without paying for a new one. You want one for a
9x12 cm plate camera? I guess you could do what the seller of my Ica
Ideal did, and glue on an old one (fabric, JJS -- no, not a single
layer, but fabric both inside and out) from a 3x4 camera. After all,
no one could seriously plan to take pictures with such an ancient
piece of junk, so they'll never notice that it's both cracking in all
the folds, and 1/4" too small all around. It's recently occurred to
me that the cheapest way to fix that one might be to get a roll film
Polaroid -- the kind that get converted to 4x5 -- and take the bellows
from it. I certainly don't expect to find too many good bellows in
non-working plattenkameren from 70 years ago...


Well, maybe you need to readjust your expectations. I've found plenty of
them, and for cheap, too. Some from a local antique photographic dealer
(now out of business, unfortunately), and some from eBay. Check auctions
for basket-case folding cameras; some of them go for a song. In most
cases, unless there's been water damage or a bad case of mold, the
bellows will be intact, maybe needing a little patching up.

Well, again, it depends on the camera. You're extremely unlikely to
find an Isolette or Speedex with a good bellows; I've got three of them,
and at least two have pinhole bellows leaks (that I may or may not be
able to fix, when I get set up to work on them again). My Jubilette may
also have leaks; I need to check it.

A real leather bellows is a better bet, in general, than the synthetic
ones or those with fabric outer layers. Other folders are better, but
by the time you get into the plate camera era, you're looking at cameras
a minimum of 65+ years old (the last German plate cameras were
discontinued before the invasion of Poland, probably before the
annexation of the Sudetenland; British made models might have lasted a
year or two longer, but were certainly all done by 1940). Any bellows
that wasn't leather is almost certain to be beyond patching.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 10/15/2004 12:32 PM Donald Qualls spake thus:

Well, it depends on what camera. You want a bellows to fit an
Isolette/Speedex (I know I do, times at least two)? Good luck finding
a "usable" bellows without paying for a new one. You want one for a
9x12 cm plate camera? I guess you could do what the seller of my Ica
Ideal did, and glue on an old one (fabric, JJS -- no, not a single
layer, but fabric both inside and out) from a 3x4 camera. After all,
no one could seriously plan to take pictures with such an ancient
piece of junk, so they'll never notice that it's both cracking in all
the folds, and 1/4" too small all around. It's recently occurred to
me that the cheapest way to fix that one might be to get a roll film
Polaroid -- the kind that get converted to 4x5 -- and take the bellows
from it. I certainly don't expect to find too many good bellows in
non-working plattenkameren from 70 years ago...


Well, maybe you need to readjust your expectations. I've found plenty of
them, and for cheap, too. Some from a local antique photographic dealer
(now out of business, unfortunately), and some from eBay. Check auctions
for basket-case folding cameras; some of them go for a song. In most
cases, unless there's been water damage or a bad case of mold, the
bellows will be intact, maybe needing a little patching up.

Well, again, it depends on the camera. You're extremely unlikely to
find an Isolette or Speedex with a good bellows; I've got three of them,
and at least two have pinhole bellows leaks (that I may or may not be
able to fix, when I get set up to work on them again). My Jubilette may
also have leaks; I need to check it.

A real leather bellows is a better bet, in general, than the synthetic
ones or those with fabric outer layers. Other folders are better, but
by the time you get into the plate camera era, you're looking at cameras
a minimum of 65+ years old (the last German plate cameras were
discontinued before the invasion of Poland, probably before the
annexation of the Sudetenland; British made models might have lasted a
year or two longer, but were certainly all done by 1940). Any bellows
that wasn't leather is almost certain to be beyond patching.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.