Adobe's Low hanging .... ?

On 7/16/2014 10:39 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Sandman
wrote:

Funny. The problem with my old iPhone was a broken internal switch.

What "switch" was this? You say it's an internal component, and the topic
was "moving parts" so you seem to imply that inside your iPhone there was a
mechanical physically moving "switch" that was broken. Having seen the
insides of many iPhones (I have a friend that repair them), I can assure
you that no such switch exists.

he's talking out is ass. there is no 'internal switch'.

the *only* buttons and switches are on the outside (not inside), where
a user can access them. an internal switch makes no sense whatsoever.

the status of any of those buttons/switches or whether any of them are
even functional do not affect data retention or being able to access
the data at all.

there are even ways to continue to use an iphone/ipad with broken
buttons/switches although obviously less convenient than getting it
repaired, which for an out of warranty device may not be worth it.

and for those who don't want to disassemble their iphone to check
what's really in there, just check out any of the teardowns online.

The phone would turn on and off, but nothing could be accessed.
According t the good folks at the Apple store the diagnostic code
was a bad internal switch, or something like that. It cold not be
repaired. Perhaps I should have sent nospam to argue with them.

Since the topic was data loss, are you here claiming that this internal
"switch" failing also made your phone backup fail? Or are you saying that
in spite of your iPhone explictly asking you to, and Apple providing it for
free, you declined automatic backup of your phone?

Because if you didn't decline, and you had backup, then your replacement
iPhone would just ask for your iCloud credentials and then just restore
your new phone with all the data from your old phone.

So regardless of this "internal switch" whatever that is supposed to mean,
your phone data - while unrecoverable inside your old phone - was not
actually lost since you're smart enough to utilize the automatic and free
of charge backup mechanism in iCloud (or the automatic free of charge
backup mechanism in iTunes if you distrust the cloud).

a backup certainly makes things easier, but the data in his old phone
was still there.

he's wrong.


Although the data on any device may be there, it's worthless if it
cannot be accessed.

--
PeterN

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

there is no need to specify the default case since it's the default
case.

Who says? Where did they say it.

what do you think default *means*?

The important question is what do you think that default means?

what normally happens, without the user going out of their way.

Also why are we restricting the discussion to the default case when
there are alternative choices which should be taken into
consideration? Who made the decision to do so and when did they tell
us?

the user can do whatever they want, but if they go out of their way to
put one copy of data anywhere (cloud or not), then data loss is a real
risk and if it happens, it's of their own doing, based on the decisions
they have made.

it's *not* a fault of the cloud.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Funny. The problem with my old iPhone was a broken internal switch.

What "switch" was this? You say it's an internal component, and the topic
was "moving parts" so you seem to imply that inside your iPhone there was
a
mechanical physically moving "switch" that was broken. Having seen the
insides of many iPhones (I have a friend that repair them), I can assure
you that no such switch exists.

he's talking out is ass. there is no 'internal switch'.

Switches need not be mechanical devices with moving parts. e.g. a
transistor is a switch. There are many other similar devices such as
Hall Effect switches. Please don't try to interpret this example as me
claiming there are Hall Effect devices in iPhones.

now that's a stretch.

nobody is going to tell a customer 'an internal switch failed' (if
that's actually what anyone said, which is highly suspect) when a
single *transistor* fails, which nobody would even know in the first
place just by looking at it.

any failure gets diagnosed as a logic board failure and that gets
replaced as a unit. even if a part were to be replaced, it would be
thousands, if not millions of transistors (and other stuff).

On 7/16/2014 12:56 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

The phone would turn on and off, but nothing could be accessed.
According t the good folks at the Apple store the diagnostic code
was a bad internal switch, or something like that. It cold not be
repaired. Perhaps I should have sent nospam to argue with them.

Since the topic was data loss, are you here claiming that this internal
"switch" failing also made your phone backup fail? Or are you saying that
in spite of your iPhone explictly asking you to, and Apple providing it for
free, you declined automatic backup of your phone?

Nobody, except you, said my phone was not backed up. Typically, you make
assumptions with no factual basis.

if it was backed up then it doesn't matter what failed or if you even
had the original phone at all.

bottom line: nothing lost, exactly as i said.

Because if you didn't decline, and you had backup, then your replacement
iPhone would just ask for your iCloud credentials and then just restore
your new phone with all the data from your old phone.

Decline what??

The discussion was about the data on my hone, not on my backup, or
restoration to a new phone.

no, the discussion is data loss.

since you admit to having a backup, there can't be data loss.


The phone data is no longer available on the phone. The phone is kaput.
The data on the phone is lost


--
PeterN

On 7/16/2014 4:21 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

So regardless of this "internal switch" whatever that is supposed to mean,
your phone data - while unrecoverable inside your old phone - was not
actually lost since you're smart enough to utilize the automatic and free
of charge backup mechanism in iCloud (or the automatic free of charge
backup mechanism in iTunes if you distrust the cloud).

a backup certainly makes things easier, but the data in his old phone
was still there.

he's wrong.

Sorry, I forgot you were aware of what the Apple Store people told me.

i didn't say anything about what they said or didn't say.

stop making **** up.

If you knew how to read, you would have seen that all technical
information was from the people at the Apple Store.

if you had any resemblance of a clue, you'd realize that the apple
store staff is not the sole source of technical information and
actually they don't know as much as you think they do.

there's far more information than you could possibly comprehend at
apple's web site. start he https://developer.apple.com/.

again, the apple store employee's job is to repair the phone, not
recover data. apple even says they're not responsible for data. it's
not what they do.

you're *well* out of your league.

I'm sure you wold have fixed my phone. No doubt abut that. Amazing how
when show to be wrong, you consistently turn to personal insults.


stick to lying. it's what you do well. leave the complicated stuff to
others.

Another rant into a mirror.

--
PeterN

On 7/16/2014 6:30 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 10:39:12 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

there is no need to specify the default case since it's the default
case.

Who says? Where did they say it.

what do you think default *means*?

The important question is what do you think that default means?

It means he is wrong and attempting to twist out of the intellectually
honest admission. We've all seen him do that before.


Also why are we restricting the discussion to the default case when
there are alternative choices which should be taken into
consideration? Who made the decision to do so and when did they tell
us?



--
PeterN

In article , Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_quoting_out_of_context

Which, in short says it means:

"The practice of quoting out of context, sometimes referred to as
"contextomy", is a logical fallacy and a type of false attribution
in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such
a way as to distort its intended meaning"

So, according to this explanation, it surely means you have to
remove something in order to take something out of context. Which
incidentally is exactly how I have used the phrase all these
years. And by logic, it's the only thing it *can* mean, seeing how
it couldn't be taken out of context if the context is still right
there.

If you have concluded that the original passage has to be removed or
not visible, then you misunderstand the explanation.

In what way did I misunderstand it, supposedly?

Was it this part:

"in which a passage is removed"

When something is "taken out of context", it is discussed without
referring to the context in which it originally appeared and as if the
surrounding context doesn't apply to the meaning.

Do you mean that it has been removed from the "surrounding context"?

If this statement is made:

"The United State's borders are secure as they can be considering
the number of people assigned to keeping our borders secured."

And someone says:

"You say our 'borders are secure', but hundreds of thousands of
illegal immigrants cross our borders every year."

The phrase "borders are secure" has been quoted out of context even
if the original statement is presented intact and visible to read.

No, the original statement is *not* present in the quote. It has been taken
out of its context and presented without it, removing the intended meaning
of the quote. Whether or not the original text is present or not is not
relevant to the fact that it was omitted from the *quote*.



--
Sandman[.net]

In article , PeterN wrote:

Sandman:
Because if you didn't decline, and you had backup, then your
replacement iPhone would just ask for your iCloud credentials
and then just restore your new phone with all the data from
your old phone.

PeterN:
Decline what??

The discussion was about the data on my hone, not on my backup,
or restoration to a new phone.

nospam:
no, the discussion is data loss.

since you admit to having a backup, there can't be data loss.

The phone data is no longer available on the phone.

But your data is not lost, right? Also, the data on the phone *is*
available, only not easily so.

The phone is kaput. The data on the phone is lost

No, the threshold to access has been greatly elevated. It can be done, but
since you have a backup and your data hasn't been lost, it is not worth it
for you to access the data.

If your phone, and your phone only, contained the launch codes to US
missile bases, and an "internal switch" made the phone "kaput", then the
data would not be considered lost, and would be retrieved by a number of
different data retrieval processes.

As it is, your data wasn't valuable enough for you to retrieve the data,
since you had a backup and your data wasn't actually lost.

--
Sandman[.net]

On 2014-07-17 14:24:38 +0000, PeterN said:

On 7/16/2014 12:56 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

The phone would turn on and off, but nothing could be accessed.
According t the good folks at the Apple store the diagnostic code
was a bad internal switch, or something like that. It cold not be
repaired. Perhaps I should have sent nospam to argue with them.

Since the topic was data loss, are you here claiming that this internal
"switch" failing also made your phone backup fail? Or are you saying that
in spite of your iPhone explictly asking you to, and Apple providing it for
free, you declined automatic backup of your phone?

Nobody, except you, said my phone was not backed up. Typically, you make
assumptions with no factual basis.

if it was backed up then it doesn't matter what failed or if you even
had the original phone at all.

bottom line: nothing lost, exactly as i said.

Because if you didn't decline, and you had backup, then your replacement
iPhone would just ask for your iCloud credentials and then just restore
your new phone with all the data from your old phone.

Decline what??

The discussion was about the data on my hone, not on my backup, or
restoration to a new phone.

no, the discussion is data loss.

since you admit to having a backup, there can't be data loss.


The phone data is no longer available on the phone. The phone is kaput.
The data on the phone is lost

This sub-thread is beginning to resemble the Monty Python Parrot
sketch, mated to the 5 minute argument sketch.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 7/17/2014 3:22 AM, Sandman wrote:
In article , PeterN wrote:

PeterN:
And just where did I used the word "removed." Do learn to read.

nospam:
you said "selectively take comments out of context".

the entire post was quoted (again) and nothing was removed at all,
therefore nothing could be taken out of context.

do learn to read.

Do look up what the phrase: "taken out of context,: means. You will
quickly see that it does not mean anything was removed.

Ehm, if something is taken *out* of context, then the context need to be
missing, right? Looking it up, as per your request, I find this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_quoting_out_of_context

Which, in short says it means:

"The practice of quoting out of context, sometimes referred to as
"contextomy", is a logical fallacy and a type of false attribution in
which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as
to distort its intended meaning"

So, according to this explanation, it surely means you have to remove
something in order to take something out of context. Which incidentally is
exactly how I have used the phrase all these years. And by logic, it's the
only thing it *can* mean, seeing how it couldn't be taken out of context if
the context is still right there.


Then you have been using the expression incorrectly. In American usage
the term also means ignoring ignoring the words that explain what is
intended.
While Wikipedia can be helpful, it is not peer reviewed and therefore is
not considered authoritative.
See Tony Cooper's explanation.


--
PeterN