Adobe's Low hanging .... ?

On 7/15/2014 11:44 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 21:51:52 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

You really have difficulty in expressing what you mean. You previously
wrote "a cloud outage might be annoying, but the data won't be lost"
when you really meant a cloud outage might be annoying, but the data
won't be lost as it should be stored in a copy else where.

there is no need to say that since the default is for a copy of the
data in the cloud.

Then you should have said it was for the default case. Otherwise it's
a generalisation which isn't always correct.

the default does not need to be spelled out. that's why it's called the
default.

The trouble was that it was not said to be the default case (rather
than the general case) until well into the argument. Nor was the exact
nature of the default defined as such until well into the argument.
The problem with your failure to exactly define your terms until after
the argument is underway is that you use it to duck and weave and
genereally confuse the argument.

not only that, but one of the key advantages of the cloud multiple
devices having access, so it's probably in many places. dropbox is a
good example.

now ask yourself how many people have only one copy of their data on a
hard drive. the answer is a lot. *they* are the ones who are going to
lose data.

Ditto with people and laptops and phones.

no, because a phone is often backed up to the cloud without the user
needing to do much of anything.

You have ignored my mention of phones for which the overflow is
*stored* - not backed up but *stored* in the cloud. The people who do
that are certain their data is secure.

Now you say smartphones are "*more* secure since there are no moving
parts to fail" when you really meant smartphones are *more* secure
since there are no moving parts to fail except buttons and switches
which do not store data.

data storage is either on a hard drive or flash memory, not buttons and
switches.

So?

it means that the device can have all buttons and switches removed and
the data will be there and readable.

Who said anything about their removal? You shouldn't think only in
terms of software failures. I know of many cases where failure of
devices such as switches, contacts, sensors, gates etc have had quite
unintended consequences. I certainly would not rule out the
possibility of the loss of data in the event of a failure of buttons
and switches.

when someone says no moving parts with regards to data storage, they
mean no spinning disk.

Oh, do they? Is that what you meant? Then why didn't you say so?

because it's obvious.

data is stored on a hard drive or ssd. not buttons.

only an idiot would bring up buttons, and sure enough, one did.

And another idiot couln't see the obvious.

only an idiot would bring up switches. they do move but that makes no
difference to the data. even if every button and switch was broken, the
data is unaffected.

Are you really saying that it is not possible for the failure of a
button or switch to cause the loss of data? You will have to be very
brave to say that: just because you don't know or can't think of an
example doesn't mean it can't happen.

yes.

data is not stored in a button or switch.

Gee - that's simplistic thinking.

and correct.

It's not stored by switches but it's controlled by switches. See
above.

He is wrong and is now, as usual, he trying t wriggle out of it.

--
PeterN

On 7/15/2014 11:59 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

You really have difficulty in expressing what you mean. You previously
wrote "a cloud outage might be annoying, but the data won't be lost"
when you really meant a cloud outage might be annoying, but the data
won't be lost as it should be stored in a copy else where.

there is no need to say that since the default is for a copy of the
data in the cloud.

Then you should have said it was for the default case. Otherwise it's
a generalisation which isn't always correct.

the default does not need to be spelled out. that's why it's called the
default.

The trouble was that it was not said to be the default case (rather
than the general case) until well into the argument. Nor was the exact
nature of the default defined as such until well into the argument.
The problem with your failure to exactly define your terms until after
the argument is underway is that you use it to duck and weave and
genereally confuse the argument.

no, you're blaming your misunderstanding on me when it's you.

there is no need to specify the default case since it's the default
case.

not only that, but one of the key advantages of the cloud multiple
devices having access, so it's probably in many places. dropbox is a
good example.

now ask yourself how many people have only one copy of their data on a
hard drive. the answer is a lot. *they* are the ones who are going to
lose data.

Ditto with people and laptops and phones.

no, because a phone is often backed up to the cloud without the user
needing to do much of anything.

You have ignored my mention of phones for which the overflow is
*stored* - not backed up but *stored* in the cloud. The people who do
that are certain their data is secure.

anyone that believes one copy of data is secure is in for a surprise.

and again, that's not the default case.


Another fallback statement you use, to keep from admiting you are wrong.


--
PeterN

On 7/16/2014 6:14 AM, Sandman wrote:
In article , PeterN wrote:

PeterN:
Which model of any smart phone has no moving parts?

nospam:
all of them.

buttons and switches do not count since those do not store data
and even if one fails, the data is intact.

you really have no clue, do you?

Eric Stevens:
You really have difficulty in expressing what you mean. You
previously wrote "a cloud outage might be annoying, but the data
won't be lost" when you really meant a cloud outage might be
annoying, but the data won't be lost as it should be stored in a
copy else where.

Now you say smartphones are "*more* secure since there are no
moving parts to fail" when you really meant smartphones are *more*
secure since there are no moving parts to fail except buttons and
switches which do not store data.

Are you really saying that it is not possible for the failure of a
button or switch to cause the loss of data? You will have to be
very brave to say that: just because you don't know or can't think
of an example doesn't mean it can't happen.

Funny. The problem with my old iPhone was a broken internal switch.

What "switch" was this? You say it's an internal component, and the topic
was "moving parts" so you seem to imply that inside your iPhone there was a
mechanical physically moving "switch" that was broken. Having seen the
insides of many iPhones (I have a friend that repair them), I can assure
you that no such switch exists.

The phone would turn on and off, but nothing could be accessed.
According t the good folks at the Apple store the diagnostic code
was a bad internal switch, or something like that. It cold not be
repaired. Perhaps I should have sent nospam to argue with them.

Since the topic was data loss, are you here claiming that this internal
"switch" failing also made your phone backup fail? Or are you saying that
in spite of your iPhone explictly asking you to, and Apple providing it for
free, you declined automatic backup of your phone?

Nobody, except you, said my phone was not backed up. Typically, you make
assumptions with no factual basis.




Because if you didn't decline, and you had backup, then your replacement
iPhone would just ask for your iCloud credentials and then just restore
your new phone with all the data from your old phone.

Decline what??

The discussion was about the data on my hone, not on my backup, or
restoration to a new phone.



So regardless of this "internal switch" whatever that is supposed to mean,
your phone data - while unrecoverable inside your old phone - was not
actually lost since you're smart enough to utilize the automatic and free
of charge backup mechanism in iCloud (or the automatic free of charge
backup mechanism in iTunes if you distrust the cloud).



I never said otherwise.

--
PeterN

On 7/16/2014 6:14 AM, Sandman wrote:
In article , PeterN wrote:

PeterN:
Which model of any smart phone has no moving parts?

nospam:
all of them.

buttons and switches do not count since those do not store data
and even if one fails, the data is intact.

you really have no clue, do you?

Eric Stevens:
You really have difficulty in expressing what you mean. You
previously wrote "a cloud outage might be annoying, but the data
won't be lost" when you really meant a cloud outage might be
annoying, but the data won't be lost as it should be stored in a
copy else where.

Now you say smartphones are "*more* secure since there are no
moving parts to fail" when you really meant smartphones are *more*
secure since there are no moving parts to fail except buttons and
switches which do not store data.

Are you really saying that it is not possible for the failure of a
button or switch to cause the loss of data? You will have to be
very brave to say that: just because you don't know or can't think
of an example doesn't mean it can't happen.

Funny. The problem with my old iPhone was a broken internal switch.

What "switch" was this? You say it's an internal component, and the topic
was "moving parts" so you seem to imply that inside your iPhone there was a
mechanical physically moving "switch" that was broken. Having seen the
insides of many iPhones (I have a friend that repair them), I can assure
you that no such switch exists.

The phone would turn on and off, but nothing could be accessed.
According t the good folks at the Apple store the diagnostic code
was a bad internal switch, or something like that. It cold not be
repaired. Perhaps I should have sent nospam to argue with them.

Since the topic was data loss, are you here claiming that this internal
"switch" failing also made your phone backup fail? Or are you saying that
in spite of your iPhone explictly asking you to, and Apple providing it for
free, you declined automatic backup of your phone?

Because if you didn't decline, and you had backup, then your replacement
iPhone would just ask for your iCloud credentials and then just restore
your new phone with all the data from your old phone.

So regardless of this "internal switch" whatever that is supposed to mean,
your phone data - while unrecoverable inside your old phone - was not
actually lost since you're smart enough to utilize the automatic and free
of charge backup mechanism in iCloud (or the automatic free of charge
backup mechanism in iTunes if you distrust the cloud).



I apologize to you for my snippy answers. I thought I was responding to
nosense, and sent before review.

--
PeterN

On 7/16/2014 10:39 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Sandman
wrote:

Funny. The problem with my old iPhone was a broken internal switch.

What "switch" was this? You say it's an internal component, and the topic
was "moving parts" so you seem to imply that inside your iPhone there was a
mechanical physically moving "switch" that was broken. Having seen the
insides of many iPhones (I have a friend that repair them), I can assure
you that no such switch exists.

he's talking out is ass. there is no 'internal switch'.

the *only* buttons and switches are on the outside (not inside), where
a user can access them. an internal switch makes no sense whatsoever.

the status of any of those buttons/switches or whether any of them are
even functional do not affect data retention or being able to access
the data at all.

there are even ways to continue to use an iphone/ipad with broken
buttons/switches although obviously less convenient than getting it
repaired, which for an out of warranty device may not be worth it.

and for those who don't want to disassemble their iphone to check
what's really in there, just check out any of the teardowns online.

The phone would turn on and off, but nothing could be accessed.
According t the good folks at the Apple store the diagnostic code
was a bad internal switch, or something like that. It cold not be
repaired. Perhaps I should have sent nospam to argue with them.

Since the topic was data loss, are you here claiming that this internal
"switch" failing also made your phone backup fail? Or are you saying that
in spite of your iPhone explictly asking you to, and Apple providing it for
free, you declined automatic backup of your phone?

Because if you didn't decline, and you had backup, then your replacement
iPhone would just ask for your iCloud credentials and then just restore
your new phone with all the data from your old phone.

So regardless of this "internal switch" whatever that is supposed to mean,
your phone data - while unrecoverable inside your old phone - was not
actually lost since you're smart enough to utilize the automatic and free
of charge backup mechanism in iCloud (or the automatic free of charge
backup mechanism in iTunes if you distrust the cloud).

a backup certainly makes things easier, but the data in his old phone
was still there.

he's wrong.

Sorry, I forgot you were aware of what the Apple Store people told me.

--
PeterN

In article , PeterN
wrote:

Funny. The problem with my old iPhone was a broken internal switch. The
phone would turn on and off, but nothing could be accessed. According t
the good folks at the Apple store the diagnostic code was a bad
internal
switch, or something like that. It cold not be repaired. Perhaps I
should have sent nospam to argue with them.

the phone may not have been usable as a phone, but the *data* on it was
not lost. it's still there.

The data may have been there, but it could not be accessed. It would not
sync with any computer. It could not be read by any computer.
Not even at the Apple store.

your story keeps changing.

it won't sync with anything other than the computer to which it was
first synced. once again, you don't know what you're talking about.

however, the data was there.

not only that, but a 'broken internal switch' isn't going to cause a
sync failure.

the switches do *not* matter.

the apple store staff wanted to fix the phone so you could use it as a
phone. that's to be expected.

The folks in th Apple store disagree with you.

no. their job is to fix stuff, not recover them.

if you want data recovery, try http://www.drivesavers.com/.

Once more yu have no idea WTF you are talking about.

i know *far* more about ios devices that you ever will.

And you selectively take comments out of context. But it doesn't matter.
We all know what you are, and act accordingly.

nothing was removed.
you are wrong again.

And just where did I used the word "removed." Do learn to read.

you said "selectively take comments out of context".

the entire post was quoted (again) and nothing was removed at all,
therefore nothing could be taken out of context.

do learn to read.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

The phone would turn on and off, but nothing could be accessed.
According t the good folks at the Apple store the diagnostic code
was a bad internal switch, or something like that. It cold not be
repaired. Perhaps I should have sent nospam to argue with them.

Since the topic was data loss, are you here claiming that this internal
"switch" failing also made your phone backup fail? Or are you saying that
in spite of your iPhone explictly asking you to, and Apple providing it for
free, you declined automatic backup of your phone?

Nobody, except you, said my phone was not backed up. Typically, you make
assumptions with no factual basis.

if it was backed up then it doesn't matter what failed or if you even
had the original phone at all.

bottom line: nothing lost, exactly as i said.

Because if you didn't decline, and you had backup, then your replacement
iPhone would just ask for your iCloud credentials and then just restore
your new phone with all the data from your old phone.

Decline what??

The discussion was about the data on my hone, not on my backup, or
restoration to a new phone.

no, the discussion is data loss.

since you admit to having a backup, there can't be data loss.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

The phone would turn on and off, but nothing could be accessed.
According t the good folks at the Apple store the diagnostic code
was a bad internal switch, or something like that. It cold not be
repaired. Perhaps I should have sent nospam to argue with them.

Since the topic was data loss, are you here claiming that this internal
"switch" failing also made your phone backup fail? Or are you saying that
in spite of your iPhone explictly asking you to, and Apple providing it for
free, you declined automatic backup of your phone?

Because if you didn't decline, and you had backup, then your replacement
iPhone would just ask for your iCloud credentials and then just restore
your new phone with all the data from your old phone.

So regardless of this "internal switch" whatever that is supposed to mean,
your phone data - while unrecoverable inside your old phone - was not
actually lost since you're smart enough to utilize the automatic and free
of charge backup mechanism in iCloud (or the automatic free of charge
backup mechanism in iTunes if you distrust the cloud).

I apologize to you for my snippy answers. I thought I was responding to
nosense, and sent before review.

you meant to say you respond *with* nonsense.

next time review it before sending.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

So regardless of this "internal switch" whatever that is supposed to mean,
your phone data - while unrecoverable inside your old phone - was not
actually lost since you're smart enough to utilize the automatic and free
of charge backup mechanism in iCloud (or the automatic free of charge
backup mechanism in iTunes if you distrust the cloud).

a backup certainly makes things easier, but the data in his old phone
was still there.

he's wrong.

Sorry, I forgot you were aware of what the Apple Store people told me.

i didn't say anything about what they said or didn't say.

stop making **** up.

On 7/16/2014 12:56 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

The phone would turn on and off, but nothing could be accessed.
According t the good folks at the Apple store the diagnostic code
was a bad internal switch, or something like that. It cold not be
repaired. Perhaps I should have sent nospam to argue with them.

Since the topic was data loss, are you here claiming that this internal
"switch" failing also made your phone backup fail? Or are you saying that
in spite of your iPhone explictly asking you to, and Apple providing it for
free, you declined automatic backup of your phone?

Because if you didn't decline, and you had backup, then your replacement
iPhone would just ask for your iCloud credentials and then just restore
your new phone with all the data from your old phone.

So regardless of this "internal switch" whatever that is supposed to mean,
your phone data - while unrecoverable inside your old phone - was not
actually lost since you're smart enough to utilize the automatic and free
of charge backup mechanism in iCloud (or the automatic free of charge
backup mechanism in iTunes if you distrust the cloud).

I apologize to you for my snippy answers. I thought I was responding to
nosense, and sent before review.

you meant to say you respond *with* nonsense.

next time review it before sending.

You really are an asshole.


--
PeterN