10,000 ISO?

Possibly a back-thinned, illuminated CCD??

http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/intern.../d925/f934.cfm

This scan back 6x17 camera is extremely fast. The image results are
comparable to a one-shot digital or film back. This is possible thanks
to a very high read-out speed of 300 MB per second - 100x faster than
for any existing scan back. The fastest exposure speed is 1/20'000 - or
one second for the entire 6x17 scan at full resolution!

Compared to previous surface sensors, the sensitivity of the Seitz D3
sensor is significantly higher. Or compared to conventional scanning
cameras, the sensitivity is increased by factor 100. This results in a
very broad ISO/ASA range (equivalent) of 500 to 10,000,

"RichA" wrote in message
oups.com...
Possibly a back-thinned, illuminated CCD??

From a thick-skinned obsessive NG poster.

Your point? Other than to try to post something idiotic at least several
times a week?

"Helen" wrote in message
...

"RichA" wrote in message
oups.com...
Possibly a back-thinned, illuminated CCD??

From a thick-skinned obsessive NG poster.

Your point? Other than to try to post something idiotic at least several
times a week?


I think this is almost a valid question, not well asked but can't have
everything.

Really Rich, ISO10,000 is not that high, some of todays D-SLR cameras will
do ISO 6,400 so it is not even a whole factor higher, just means that it
resolves a little better in the poorly lit scenes, just a little, you might
find that with a bit of playing around on camera and in post you might
almost mastch ISO10,000 if you are very careful.

Pete D wrote:
"Helen" wrote in message
...

"RichA" wrote in message
oups.com...
Possibly a back-thinned, illuminated CCD??

From a thick-skinned obsessive NG poster.

Your point? Other than to try to post something idiotic at least several
times a week?


I think this is almost a valid question, not well asked but can't have
everything.

Really Rich, ISO10,000 is not that high, some of todays D-SLR cameras will
do ISO 6,400 so it is not even a whole factor higher, just means that it
resolves a little better in the poorly lit scenes, just a little, you might
find that with a bit of playing around on camera and in post you might
almost mastch ISO10,000 if you are very careful.

You can squeeze detail out of an image at 200,000 ISO, but It isn't
like what 400 ISO
looks like. I think the implication is that this camera holds 10,000
ISO and presents it
like 1600-3200 ISO on a regular DSLR. If so, it's impressive for what
it is.

RichA wrote:
Pete D wrote:
"Helen" wrote in message
...

"RichA" wrote in message
oups.com...
Possibly a back-thinned, illuminated CCD??

From a thick-skinned obsessive NG poster.

Your point? Other than to try to post something idiotic at least
several times a week?


I think this is almost a valid question, not well asked but can't
have everything.

Really Rich, ISO10,000 is not that high, some of todays D-SLR
cameras will do ISO 6,400 so it is not even a whole factor higher,
just means that it resolves a little better in the poorly lit
scenes, just a little, you might find that with a bit of playing
around on camera and in post you might almost mastch ISO10,000 if
you are very careful.

You can squeeze detail out of an image at 200,000 ISO, but It isn't
like what 400 ISO
looks like. I think the implication is that this camera holds 10,000
ISO and presents it
like 1600-3200 ISO on a regular DSLR. If so, it's impressive for what
it is.

Canon or Nikon could easily do 10,000...but that doesn't mean it's going to
impress.
They've stopped at 3200 because that's as far as they are willing to
consider "acceptable."
Pushing higher is easy. It's just not very pretty...yet.

--
Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
www.pbase.com/markuson

--
Ed Smith"Why do drive-up ATM's have instructions in braille ?"
"Mark²" mjmorgan(lowest even number wrote in message
news:OAFQg.1824$nm1.623@fed1read04...
RichA wrote:
Pete D wrote:
"Helen" wrote in message
...

"RichA" wrote in message
oups.com...
Possibly a back-thinned, illuminated CCD??

From a thick-skinned obsessive NG poster.

Your point? Other than to try to post something idiotic at least
several times a week?


I think this is almost a valid question, not well asked but can't
have everything.

Really Rich, ISO10,000 is not that high, some of todays D-SLR
cameras will do ISO 6,400 so it is not even a whole factor higher,
just means that it resolves a little better in the poorly lit
scenes, just a little, you might find that with a bit of playing
around on camera and in post you might almost mastch ISO10,000 if
you are very careful.

You can squeeze detail out of an image at 200,000 ISO, but It isn't
like what 400 ISO
looks like. I think the implication is that this camera holds 10,000
ISO and presents it
like 1600-3200 ISO on a regular DSLR. If so, it's impressive for what
it is.

Canon or Nikon could easily do 10,000...but that doesn't mean it's going to
impress.
They've stopped at 3200 because that's as far as they are willing to
consider "acceptable."
Pushing higher is easy. It's just not very pretty...yet.

--
Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
www.pbase.com/markuson

Does it bother you Rich, that this camera is made of plastic?

RichA wrote:

Possibly a back-thinned, illuminated CCD??

http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/intern.../d925/f934.cfm

This scan back 6x17 camera is extremely fast. The image results are
comparable to a one-shot digital or film back. This is possible thanks
to a very high read-out speed of 300 MB per second - 100x faster than
for any existing scan back. The fastest exposure speed is 1/20'000 - or
one second for the entire 6x17 scan at full resolution!

Compared to previous surface sensors, the sensitivity of the Seitz D3
sensor is significantly higher. Or compared to conventional scanning
cameras, the sensitivity is increased by factor 100. This results in a
very broad ISO/ASA range (equivalent) of 500 to 10,000,


The sensor is a TDI: a time delay integration array, similar to that
used on the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) in the HIRIS camera,
about to start mapping operations. It is a CCD.

A technical paper on the web site is at:
http://vfm.dalsa.com/support/techpap...tech_paper.pdf

It shows the quantum efficiency is similar to other CCDs, so
similar to other digital cameras on the market. The specifications
say 8-micron pixels (compared to 8.2 microns in the canon 1D mark II
and 5D cameras). The read noise is 19 electrons (compared to ~4 electrons
for the 1D Mark II), and the full well is 50,000 electrons (compared
to the 80,000 for the 1D Mark II).

An important concept is the unity gain ISO where 1 data number in the A/D
converter = 1 electron. For 12-bit converters, the unity gain
of the 1D mark II is ISO 1300, and from the above specs, the unity
gain for the same bits of the 6x17 camera would be about the same.
One can always up the gain, but you just amplify noise with no
benefit (it actually decreases dynamic range). So the sensor
appears to have no ISO advantage over traditional cameras.
So iso 10,000 would be about the same as on a 1D Mark II or 5D.
Nevertheless, it is a neat camera for those with money to
burn!

For more on unity gain ISO and related issues, see:
Digital Cameras: Does Pixel Size Matter?
Factors in Choosing a Digital Camera
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedeta...el.size.matter

Roger

In article , "Roger N. Clark (change
username to rnclark)" writes
RichA wrote:

Possibly a back-thinned, illuminated CCD??

http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/intern.../d925/f934.cfm

The sensor is a TDI: a time delay integration array, similar to that
used on the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) in the HIRIS camera,
about to start mapping operations. It is a CCD.

A technical paper on the web site is at:
http://vfm.dalsa.com/support/techpap...-TDI_sensor_te
ch_paper.pdf

It shows the quantum efficiency is similar to other CCDs, so
similar to other digital cameras on the market. The specifications
say 8-micron pixels (compared to 8.2 microns in the canon 1D mark II
and 5D cameras). The read noise is 19 electrons (compared to ~4 electrons
for the 1D Mark II), and the full well is 50,000 electrons (compared
to the 80,000 for the 1D Mark II).

An important concept is the unity gain ISO where 1 data number in the A/D
converter = 1 electron. For 12-bit converters, the unity gain
of the 1D mark II is ISO 1300, and from the above specs, the unity
gain for the same bits of the 6x17 camera would be about the same.
One can always up the gain, but you just amplify noise with no
benefit (it actually decreases dynamic range). So the sensor
appears to have no ISO advantage over traditional cameras.
So iso 10,000 would be about the same as on a 1D Mark II or 5D.
Nevertheless, it is a neat camera for those with money to
burn!

For more on unity gain ISO and related issues, see:
Digital Cameras: Does Pixel Size Matter?
Factors in Choosing a Digital Camera
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedeta...el.size.matter

Roger - thank goodness for someone who actually adds useful information
to the issue, rather than trading insults.

David
--
David Littlewood

David Littlewood wrote:
In article , "Roger N. Clark (change
username to rnclark)" writes

RichA wrote:

Possibly a back-thinned, illuminated CCD??

http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/intern.../d925/f934.cfm


The sensor is a TDI: a time delay integration array, similar to that
used on the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) in the HIRIS camera,
about to start mapping operations. It is a CCD.

A technical paper on the web site is at:
http://vfm.dalsa.com/support/techpap...-TDI_sensor_te
ch_paper.pdf

It shows the quantum efficiency is similar to other CCDs, so
similar to other digital cameras on the market. The specifications
say 8-micron pixels (compared to 8.2 microns in the canon 1D mark II
and 5D cameras). The read noise is 19 electrons (compared to ~4
electrons
for the 1D Mark II), and the full well is 50,000 electrons (compared
to the 80,000 for the 1D Mark II).

An important concept is the unity gain ISO where 1 data number in the A/D
converter = 1 electron. For 12-bit converters, the unity gain
of the 1D mark II is ISO 1300, and from the above specs, the unity
gain for the same bits of the 6x17 camera would be about the same.
One can always up the gain, but you just amplify noise with no
benefit (it actually decreases dynamic range). So the sensor
appears to have no ISO advantage over traditional cameras.
So iso 10,000 would be about the same as on a 1D Mark II or 5D.
Nevertheless, it is a neat camera for those with money to
burn!

For more on unity gain ISO and related issues, see:
Digital Cameras: Does Pixel Size Matter?
Factors in Choosing a Digital Camera
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedeta...el.size.matter

Roger - thank goodness for someone who actually adds useful information
to the issue, rather than trading insults.

David

David,

Thank you. That's especially nice considering the
holy war going on in r.p.d.

Roger