D70 with Kenko extension tubes

I was looking into getting a nice 200 or 300mm prime and some extension
tubes for closeup work then realized I could get the tubes first and try
my 70-200 G AF-S VR. I read a bunch of conflicting information so called
Nikon & asked them straight up. They said no way, I wouldn't even be
able to adjust the aperture, just wide open or stopped all the way down.
Would that also be true for the Kenko tubes?

They said a pro Nikon body would be able to control the aperture but not
the D70. The problem is the 70-200 has no aperture ring, it's all
electronic.

--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
Bay Natives
http://www.baynatives.com

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:27:58 -0700, Paul Furman wrote:

I was looking into getting a nice 200 or 300mm prime and some extension
tubes for closeup work then realized I could get the tubes first and try
my 70-200 G AF-S VR. I read a bunch of conflicting information so called
Nikon & asked them straight up. They said no way, I wouldn't even be
able to adjust the aperture, just wide open or stopped all the way down.
Would that also be true for the Kenko tubes?

They said a pro Nikon body would be able to control the aperture but not
the D70. The problem is the 70-200 has no aperture ring, it's all
electronic.

I have a set of the Kenko extension tubes for my D70 and they work fine.

Old extension tubes had no connections for the Nikon lens electronics; the
Kenko tubes I have pass through the electrical connections between the lens
and body plus the mechanical AF drive for non AF-S lenses.

Nikon's probably feeding you a line since they'd prefer you buy a Nikon
macro lens.

Paul Furman wrote:

I was looking into getting a nice 200 or 300mm prime and some extension
tubes for closeup work then realized I could get the tubes first and try
my 70-200 G AF-S VR. I read a bunch of conflicting information so called
Nikon & asked them straight up. They said no way, I wouldn't even be
able to adjust the aperture, just wide open or stopped all the way down.
Would that also be true for the Kenko tubes?

They said a pro Nikon body would be able to control the aperture but not
the D70. The problem is the 70-200 has no aperture ring, it's all
electronic.

As far as I know, this is true of the *Nikon* extension tubes, but the
Kenko ones do preserve the lens/body communication and thus will work.

--
Jeremy |

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:13:36 +0900, Deedee Tee abuse@localhost
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 23:47:58 -0000, Jeremy Nixon
wrote:

Paul Furman wrote:

I was looking into getting a nice 200 or 300mm prime and some extension
tubes for closeup work then realized I could get the tubes first and try
my 70-200 G AF-S VR. I read a bunch of conflicting information so called
Nikon & asked them straight up. They said no way, I wouldn't even be
able to adjust the aperture, just wide open or stopped all the way down.
Would that also be true for the Kenko tubes?

They said a pro Nikon body would be able to control the aperture but not
the D70. The problem is the 70-200 has no aperture ring, it's all
electronic.

As far as I know, this is true of the *Nikon* extension tubes, but the
Kenko ones do preserve the lens/body communication and thus will work.

I can confirm the above. Kenko extension tubes and teleconverters have
both electronic connections and the mechanical "screwdriver" for
autofocus. However, autofocus has limited or no usefulness in macro,
and you will be better off by using manual focusing at magnifications
greater than about 0.5x. What the electronic transmission is really
useful for is light metering, which the Kenko tubes allow as well with
a D70/70s/50. The Nikon tubes don't.

The Kenko tubes don't pass 'D' information about the lens (because
it's now invalid data). Doesn't this prevent the D70 from metering?

I may be wrong.... has anyone actually tested them on a D70?

....not that metering is such a big deal on a digital body when doing
macro - you still have the histogram and the review LCD - and it costs
nothing to bracket.

I've been playing with an IR filter. You can't see anything through
the viewfinder, so of course the AF doesn't work (not that it would be
correctly focussed, even if it did). The first idea you get about
framing is when you see the shot on the LCD.....

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga

Owamanga wrote:

Deedee Tee wrote:

Jeremy Nixon wrote:

Paul Furman wrote:

I was looking into getting a nice 200 or 300mm prime and some extension
tubes for closeup work then realized I could get the tubes first and try
my 70-200 G AF-S VR. I read a bunch of conflicting information so called
Nikon & asked them straight up. They said no way, I wouldn't even be
able to adjust the aperture, just wide open or stopped all the way down.
Would that also be true for the Kenko tubes?

They said a pro Nikon body would be able to control the aperture but not
the D70. The problem is the 70-200 has no aperture ring, it's all
electronic.

As far as I know, this is true of the *Nikon* extension tubes, but the
Kenko ones do preserve the lens/body communication and thus will work.

I can confirm the above. Kenko extension tubes and teleconverters have
both electronic connections and the mechanical "screwdriver" for
autofocus. However, autofocus has limited or no usefulness in macro,
and you will be better off by using manual focusing at magnifications
greater than about 0.5x. What the electronic transmission is really
useful for is light metering, which the Kenko tubes allow as well with
a D70/70s/50. The Nikon tubes don't.

The Kenko tubes don't pass 'D' information about the lens (because
it's now invalid data). Doesn't this prevent the D70 from metering?

I don't really even care if it does metering but it's essential that the
aperture lever gets controlled by the camera because the 70-200 doesn't
have an aperture ring. I'm not sure I even believe the Nikon tubes can't
control the aperture, that seems so elemental.

I may be wrong.... has anyone actually tested them on a D70?

...not that metering is such a big deal on a digital body when doing
macro - you still have the histogram and the review LCD - and it costs
nothing to bracket.

I've been playing with an IR filter. You can't see anything through
the viewfinder, so of course the AF doesn't work (not that it would be
correctly focussed, even if it did). The first idea you get about
framing is when you see the shot on the LCD.....


--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
Bay Natives
http://www.baynatives.com

Deedee Tee wrote:

Jeremy Nixon wrote:

Paul Furman wrote:

I was looking into getting a nice 200 or 300mm prime and some extension
tubes for closeup work then realized I could get the tubes first and try
my 70-200 G AF-S VR. I read a bunch of conflicting information so called
Nikon & asked them straight up. They said no way, I wouldn't even be
able to adjust the aperture, just wide open or stopped all the way down.
Would that also be true for the Kenko tubes?

They said a pro Nikon body would be able to control the aperture but not
the D70. The problem is the 70-200 has no aperture ring, it's all
electronic.

As far as I know, this is true of the *Nikon* extension tubes, but the
Kenko ones do preserve the lens/body communication and thus will work.


I can confirm the above. Kenko extension tubes and teleconverters have
both electronic connections

The D70 has 10 electrical contacts and so do some of my new AF lenses. I
have a new MF lens with 5 contacts (4 in a row then skips 2 & one stray)
and a cheap AF with that same config and it's a G lens with no aperture
ring. So I can't make sense of the contact count. I had read to make
sure to get the Kenko tubes with seven contacts. I see all sorts of
different versions of those Kenko tubes and even Kenko's own web site
does not clearly distinguish how many contacts or which model number is
which.

I would very much like to have the VR work. I read one person said that
was possible with the Kenko tubes and others said no. shrug


and the mechanical "screwdriver" for
autofocus. However, autofocus has limited or no usefulness in macro,
and you will be better off by using manual focusing at magnifications
greater than about 0.5x. What the electronic transmission is really
useful for is light metering, which the Kenko tubes allow as well with
a D70/70s/50. The Nikon tubes don't.

Kenko tubes and teleconverters are made of plastic, and not suitable
to carry heavy mechanical loads, so you should support the weight of
the lens by attaching it to a tripod by the lens collar (if it has
one).

Yes I've heard they really bounce with a heavy lens and the 70-200 is
very heavy.


If you are planning to use a 200 or 300 mm prime for closeups, you may
need an impractically long stack of extension tubes: the longer the
FL, the longer the tubes needed to get the same magnification (just
remember that a 300 mm must be moved out from the camera body by 30 cm

I found a couple people using a 300 f/4 AF-S with the full set of Kenko
tubes at a total of 68mm and they were getting great results though it
was strictly a tripod situation with all the light fall-off. And I think
that prime is not terribly heavy.


in order to yield a 1:1 magnification). You may be better off mounting
a closeup lens on the filter threads in front of your tele. With a
tele, you don't need a very strong closeup attachment lens. If your
tele allows the use of small filters inserted into the lens barrel,
you can mount a small closeup lens there, and it will have the same
effect as a large one mounted on the front filter threads (and will be
much cheaper).

I do have a closeup lens to fit the front and it is useful because there
is no light loss I can hand hold with VR & all but it becomes too much
glass (especially with the 2xTC ha!)and the image quality does decline
even though it's a fancy 2-element model.

--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
Bay Natives
http://www.baynatives.com

Owamanga wrote:

The Kenko tubes don't pass 'D' information about the lens (because
it's now invalid data). Doesn't this prevent the D70 from metering?

If it did, then non-D lenses wouldn't meter either, which isn't the case.
The only thing "D" information is really useful for is flash metering.
It makes little or no difference for anything else.

--
Jeremy |

Jeremy Nixon wrote:
Owamanga wrote:


The Kenko tubes don't pass 'D' information about the lens (because
it's now invalid data). Doesn't this prevent the D70 from metering?


If it did, then non-D lenses wouldn't meter either, which isn't the case.
The only thing "D" information is really useful for is flash metering.
It makes little or no difference for anything else.

D is for Distance?

--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
Bay Natives
http://www.baynatives.com

"Paul Furman" wrote in message
...
Jeremy Nixon wrote:
Owamanga wrote:


The Kenko tubes don't pass 'D' information about the lens (because
it's now invalid data). Doesn't this prevent the D70 from metering?


If it did, then non-D lenses wouldn't meter either, which isn't the case.
The only thing "D" information is really useful for is flash metering.
It makes little or no difference for anything else.

D is for Distance?

--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
Bay Natives
http://www.baynatives.com

Yes, in the context of usage with Nikon lenses, the "D" designation means
distance communication with the appropriate bodies.
By the way, you are aware that all Nikon lenses open and shut their
diaphragms with a mechanical lever. Even in the "G" lenses it is
mechanical. The settings are transmitted electronically by the appropriate
bodies, but the ultimate opening & closing is handled mechanically. It
helps to understand this when sorting out what operates with what.
Bob

Robert Brace wrote:

By the way, you are aware that all Nikon lenses open and shut their
diaphragms with a mechanical lever. Even in the "G" lenses it is
mechanical. The settings are transmitted electronically by the appropriate
bodies, but the ultimate opening & closing is handled mechanically. It
helps to understand this when sorting out what operates with what.
Bob

Yes, I've shot with the lens reversed and had to reach my finger around
to control the aperture with that lever. Even a lens with an aperture
ring is wide open while framing the pic and the camera somehow has to
read the ring setting and stop it down when the shutter is released. I'm
a bit unclear about that part. That's why I think Nikon may have been
wrong when they said there was zero control thru their tubes with a
non-pro D-70. I am somewhat familiar with the idea of stop-down metering
(if I got that term right) using a pro body on an old unchipped non-AI
lens but don't fully understand it. I would be receptive to further
explanation g.


--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
Bay Natives
http://www.baynatives.com