Battery question

In article , philo
wrote:

I found that alkaline batteries worked well enough but as I said
you have to keep buying them all the time so in the long run are more
expensive.

alkaline batteries don't last very long because of the high current
demands of a digital camera,

Plus they have a nominal voltage of only 1.2 v

alkaline batteries are 1.5v when new. nicad and nimh batteries are 1.2v
when fully charged. the difference almost always does not matter.

Believe me it does.
The camera I had would not function under 4.5 volts or so

4x 1.2v nimh = 4.8v, so even with nimh, it should still have worked.

nevertheless, i said 'almost always'. yours was one of the few devices
where may have mattered. nearly all devices work just fine with nimh.

On 10/15/2012 7:27 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , philo
wrote:

I found that alkaline batteries worked well enough but as I said
you have to keep buying them all the time so in the long run are more
expensive.

alkaline batteries don't last very long because of the high current
demands of a digital camera,

Plus they have a nominal voltage of only 1.2 v

alkaline batteries are 1.5v when new. nicad and nimh batteries are 1.2v
when fully charged. the difference almost always does not matter.

Believe me it does.
The camera I had would not function under 4.5 volts or so

4x 1.2v nimh = 4.8v, so even with nimh, it should still have worked.

nevertheless, i said 'almost always'. yours was one of the few devices
where may have mattered. nearly all devices work just fine with nimh.



Something went wrong here I was talking about Nicads not nimh

At any rate, with an Alkaline battery the staring voltage would be 6
volts. It would take a while before the voltage would go down to 4.5 v

With a set of Nicad batteries it did not take too long to go from 4.8 v
to 4.5 volts totally unacceptable life

In article , philo
wrote:

I found that alkaline batteries worked well enough but as I said
you have to keep buying them all the time so in the long run are more
expensive.

alkaline batteries don't last very long because of the high current
demands of a digital camera,

Plus they have a nominal voltage of only 1.2 v

alkaline batteries are 1.5v when new. nicad and nimh batteries are 1.2v
when fully charged. the difference almost always does not matter.

Believe me it does.
The camera I had would not function under 4.5 volts or so

4x 1.2v nimh = 4.8v, so even with nimh, it should still have worked.

nevertheless, i said 'almost always'. yours was one of the few devices
where may have mattered. nearly all devices work just fine with nimh.

Something went wrong here I was talking about Nicads not nimh

they're both 1.2v.

At any rate, with an Alkaline battery the staring voltage would be 6
volts. It would take a while before the voltage would go down to 4.5 v

not that long, depending on load.

With a set of Nicad batteries it did not take too long to go from 4.8 v
to 4.5 volts totally unacceptable life

the discharge curve for nicad/nimh is flatter than alkaline and 4.5v =
1.12v/cell which is nearly discharged.

http://www.greenbatteries.com/nibafa.html

Yes, for most high drain electronic applications NiMH batteries are
ideal substitutes and you needn't worry about the apparent voltage
differences.* Even though alkaline batteries are rated at a nominal
1.5 volts, they only deliver 1.5 volts when they are fully charged.*
As they begin to discharge the voltage of alkaline batteries
continuously drops.* In fact, over the course of their discharge,
alkaline batteries actually average about 1.2 volts.* That's very
close to the 1.2 volts of a NiMH battery. The main difference is that
an alkaline battery starts at 1.5 volts and gradually drops to less
than 1.0 volts.* NiMH batteries stay at about 1.2 volts for most of
their discharge cycle.

...And keep in mind that the alkaline battery only has a higher
voltage when it is fully charged.* Once it gets to 50% capacity or
less, it will be delivering a lower voltage than a NiMH battery.

OG wrote:
On 15/10/2012 22:50, wrote:
I'm looking at two digital camers, a Fujifilm FinePix HS30EXR and a
FinePix
HS25EXR. Almost identical cameras with a few minor (to me anyway)
differences.
But the big one I'm trying to decide is 4 AA batteris in the FinePix
HS25EXR
versus am Li-ion battery in the FinePix HS30EXR. My first thought was
that the
AA batteries would be easy to replace when I needed them, especially
if I was on
the road. I can easily buy them. Camera supposedly gets 35o shots out
of the
batteries. The Li-ion supposedly gets 600 shots. But of course, it has
to then
be recharged, Any thoughts as to which power supply is the better?
Thanks.


Most of my cameras have used AAs and they've never been a problem. I've
bought decent quality NiMh rechargeables and a recharger that can run
off 12v in the car, and never run out of power. On the other hand, when
I had a Fuji F610 that used a Li-ion battery I needed to spend £25 on a
spare one and hope I could get by with just 2 when we were travelling
away from 240v supplies.

Get Eneloop cells for your day to day use - they hold their charge for
months.

For absolute backup get some Lithium AAs and use them when every other
battery is flat.



Hi,

I go with Li ion batteries. For use at home or nearby, I carry an extra
battery, in plastic, in my pocket. When going on a trip, I take 2 or 3
extras. I once went on a 7-day cruise with a new battery in my camera,
and two new batteries in my pocket, all OEM batteries. Well, after just
ten or twelve pictures, the in-camera battery was dead, and would not
take a charge. I put in a spare fully charged battery, and it was
defective and would not work. Thank goodness, I had a third battery,
which was fine for the entire trip. Needless to say, there was no shop
on board that sold Li ion batteries.

Mort Linder

nospam wrote:
In article , philo
wrote:

I once had a camera that took 4 AA batteries.
In the long run it was a bad idea as I was constantly replacing them and
of course paying for them each time. Though the camera could also use
NiCads, the charge only lasted a very short time so were useless.

nicads haven't been around in ages. you must mean nimh, which work
quite well.

alkaline aa batteries, on the other hand, don't work well at all.

Really it was Nicads I was talking about...of course I had that camera
over ten years ago. I still have it a Kodak 1MP. You can drop it on
cement and it just bounces!

ten years ago is a long time ago, and even then, nimh was the standard.

I found that alkaline batteries worked well enough but as I said
you have to keep buying them all the time so in the long run are more
expensive.

alkaline batteries don't last very long because of the high current
demands of a digital camera,

nimh and lithium aa batteries can source a lot more current and work a
*lot* better. lithium aa batteries are not that cheap but their shelf
life is 10 years or more and make for an excellent backup for when the
rechargeables are exhausted.

Nicads can offer more current output than nimh, unless things have changed
in the last 10 years.

Greg

philo wrote:
On 10/15/2012 6:49 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , philo
wrote:

I once had a camera that took 4 AA batteries.
In the long run it was a bad idea as I was constantly replacing them and
of course paying for them each time. Though the camera could also use
NiCads, the charge only lasted a very short time so were useless.

nicads haven't been around in ages. you must mean nimh, which work
quite well.

alkaline aa batteries, on the other hand, don't work well at all.

Really it was Nicads I was talking about...of course I had that camera
over ten years ago. I still have it a Kodak 1MP. You can drop it on
cement and it just bounces!

ten years ago is a long time ago, and even then, nimh was the standard.

I found that alkaline batteries worked well enough but as I said
you have to keep buying them all the time so in the long run are more
expensive.

alkaline batteries don't last very long because of the high current
demands of a digital camera,

Plus they have a nominal voltage of only 1.2 v


More like 1.5 volts.

Greg

nimh and lithium aa batteries can source a lot more current and work a
*lot* better. lithium aa batteries are not that cheap but their shelf
life is 10 years or more and make for an excellent backup for when the
rechargeables are exhausted.


Yep

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 21:47:50 -0400, Mort wrote:

OG wrote:
On 15/10/2012 22:50, wrote:
I'm looking at two digital camers, a Fujifilm FinePix HS30EXR and a
FinePix
HS25EXR. Almost identical cameras with a few minor (to me anyway)
differences.
But the big one I'm trying to decide is 4 AA batteris in the FinePix
HS25EXR
versus am Li-ion battery in the FinePix HS30EXR. My first thought was
that the
AA batteries would be easy to replace when I needed them, especially
if I was on
the road. I can easily buy them. Camera supposedly gets 35o shots out
of the
batteries. The Li-ion supposedly gets 600 shots. But of course, it has
to then
be recharged, Any thoughts as to which power supply is the better?
Thanks.


Most of my cameras have used AAs and they've never been a problem. I've
bought decent quality NiMh rechargeables and a recharger that can run
off 12v in the car, and never run out of power. On the other hand, when
I had a Fuji F610 that used a Li-ion battery I needed to spend £25 on a
spare one and hope I could get by with just 2 when we were travelling
away from 240v supplies.

Get Eneloop cells for your day to day use - they hold their charge for
months.

For absolute backup get some Lithium AAs and use them when every other
battery is flat.



Hi,

I go with Li ion batteries. For use at home or nearby, I carry an extra
battery, in plastic, in my pocket. When going on a trip, I take 2 or 3
extras. I once went on a 7-day cruise with a new battery in my camera,
and two new batteries in my pocket, all OEM batteries. Well, after just
ten or twelve pictures, the in-camera battery was dead, and would not
take a charge. I put in a spare fully charged battery, and it was
defective and would not work. Thank goodness, I had a third battery,
which was fine for the entire trip. Needless to say, there was no shop
on board that sold Li ion batteries.

Mort Linder

So you're not painting a very positive picture of Li-ion batteris?

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:50:50 -0400, wrote:

I'm looking at two digital camers, a Fujifilm FinePix HS30EXR and a FinePix
HS25EXR. Almost identical cameras with a few minor (to me anyway) differences.
But the big one I'm trying to decide is 4 AA batteris in the FinePix HS25EXR
versus am Li-ion battery in the FinePix HS30EXR. My first thought was that the
AA batteries would be easy to replace when I needed them, especially if I was on
the road. I can easily buy them. Camera supposedly gets 35o shots out of the
batteries. The Li-ion supposedly gets 600 shots. But of course, it has to then
be recharged, Any thoughts as to which power supply is the better? Thanks.

How long should a spare battery, or even a battery in a camera which has been
turned of and unused for a while, hold it's charge? Can I count on a spare
battery being ready to go when I need it?

On 16/10/2012 05:44, wrote:
[]
So you're not painting a very positive picture of Li-ion batteris?

No, he's not, and it's not what matches my experience. I gave up AA
cells as handling four cells rather one Li-ion battery is a lot more
inconvenient when you need to change batteries in the field. But most
modern cameras will get through at least a whole day with a single set
of AA cells or Li-ion battery.

When buying spare batteries, don't buy the cheapest "OEM battery" on
e-bay, but don't pay the full camera manufacturer's price either.

I have read that some Li-ion batteries need a couple of charge/discharge
cycles to reach full capacity, although I'm not sure how true that is.

Going on holiday with a new camera and untested cheap batteries is a
recipe for possible trouble - do try stuff out for a week beforehand if
possible, and get familiar with the camera controls! Run each battery
through a full cycle.

BTW: it's a pity that no "consumer champion" has not forced a
standardisation of Li-ion cells between manufacturers.
--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

On 16/10/2012 05:56, tony cooper wrote:
[]
I realize I'm not answering your question, but I have two batteries
for my Nikon dslr. I'll never know how long a battery will hold
charge when unused. I rotate the two batteries after each outing. I
can always count on my second battery to be ready.

Also, I remove the battery from my camera when returning from a photo
outing, charge it, and put it in the bag and move the other battery to
a pouch on my strap. The pouch battery is the next used. I don't
leave any battery in the camera when it's not being used.

I don't think this system is necessary or even beneficial. It works
for me, though. I've never had a battery problem.

I do something very similar to Tony, although I rotate the two batteries
every day. I also take a 3rd battery which I rotate on each trip (i.e.
several day period). This is for "emergency" use only, and tends to
live in the hotel or cabin rather than coming with me. I would feel
confident that battery was well charged after a week, but less charged
after a month.

I have seen one third-party Li-ion battery fail to take charge after
being used for a while, and some 5-year old Sanyo eneloops seemed to
have lost capacity compared to their new replacements. Be aware that
the shelf life, used or unused, of Li-ion batteries is 3-5 years, and
they will show capacity loss.
--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu