darkroom wannabe

Dear Noob (that's funny)
Donald's advice (below mine) & the other posters is great. It's mostly
just about what I was going to say. There are a few things I would
like to emphase:

1. Buy several rolls of bad film to practice with.
2. If you buy 35mm stainless steel reels, if possible take a vernier
caliper & measure the ID between the flanges @ 4 places (90 degs
apart). If not equal return to store. If purchased used, try to bend
back to equal. I wish I could tell you a + or – tolerance. But try to
load any + all reels in the daylight before ever trying in the dark. A
bent SS reel has got to be one of the most madding, frustrating,
mother f'ing things on earth! If it's hard to load in the light, then
it'll be impossible in the dark. Don't try to use it. Take the word of
a veteran & save your self this grief.
3. Practice in the light, loading any or all reel(s) many times.
4. Then eyes closed many times.
5. Then blind folded (Well, maybe both #4 or #5 is a bit much. I do
get a little carried away sometimes, but it can't hurt)
6. Then run through the entire process of processing useless film w/
lights on, a time or 2. Make sure U do everything: set up all 4 baths
(dev. Stop, fixer, & wash); take the temperature of all 4 baths. They
should be w/in + or – 3deg F of each other, & be between 65 & 75F. My
exact #s may be a little off, so check what Kodak or Ilford say.
Finally load the reel(s) & timing each step, process the dummy film.
7. Then # 6 W/ lights out. Can U start or set the timer accurately w/o
lights? Will U know when each minute is up to agitate? This is where a
darkroom specific timer such as a Gralab is so great.
8. When you are ready to do the deed for real, don't use a roll that
has important shots.
9. One very important caution, do not use too much PhotoFlo. PhotoFlo
is not one of those things that if a little is good, then a lot is
better. Use exactly what Kodak says to use, or a little less. (I was
working in a darkroom when a new kid dumped a whole bottle in a tank.
What a mess!)
10. If U have problems w/ a particular reel, don't use it. Go back &
read #2. #2 also applies to 120 reels, but not as much so.
11. If U drop a reel, no matter how little, go back to #2.
12. If U are a highly allergic person, U will probably become allergic
to Metol. I think all Kodak developers use Metol. Or @ least Kodak
uses no Phoedone. (I could be wrong on both counts) Many Illford
developers use Phoedone (sp?), which causes far less allergic
reactions. If U have allergic tendancies, find both a Phoedone based
film & paper developer. Beside Illford, UFG film & LPD paper developer
are both Phoedone based. They also give the bonus of a much longer
life that Metol.
13. I highly recommend that U use a light tight tank for the
developer. While developing film, particularly 400 ASA film is very
sensitive to any light. It's not in the stop bath very long & it's
loosing sensitivity while there. After 30 or so seconds in the fixer,
the film has lost almost all sensitivity. So it's not as important to
have light tightness in the stop & fix. For the 3 last baths any, old
cheap container will do. An ordinary plastic dishpan will work to hold
water to bring all the baths to the same temperature & can be used to
wash the film. You'll still a 4th container for the PhotoFlo. Or U can
use the PhotoFlo tank for the wash.
14. If U live in a hot climate & cannot get tap H2O below 75F or so, U
will have to take special precautions. Call back if U do. Actually, I
forget what the max temp. is for normal processing. Can someone help?
I realize that my recommendations are perhaps a bit anal, (who me?
Anal? Never) & U certainly don't have to take them all, but they can
save you some grief.
With all my & the other posters great advice how can you go wrong?
John


Donald Qualls wrote in message news:YTHZc.14964$3l3.9424@attbi_s03...
EC wrote:

G'day all! I am really wanting to develop my own B&W film at home. The 4
big questions I have a
What are the basics I should be looking at as far as chemicals,
equipment, enlarger, etc.?
How much should I be expecting to spend to get started?
What film/chemical combo is a good start for a noob?
What are some good resources to read to learn the basics?

TIA!
EC

Most basic: a B&W (silver based, not C-41 process) film with a
comfortable speed for the type of photography you do (if you don't know,
start with ISO 400; you can easily change later), a liquid concentrate
developer like HC-110, Ilfotec HC, or Rodinal (for keeping qualities and
ease of dilution to use one-shot), and any brand of liquid rapid fixer
concentrate. You can use water for stop bath just as readily as an
indicator acid stop product (some will say it's better). Strongly
preferred is to get a wetting agent (PhotoFlo 200 or other brand
equivalent) to prevent water spotting, and buy distilled (or at least
filtered) water for mixing chemicals and washing. Measuring equipment
can come from the housewares department in a large supermarket -- cups
in one cup, two cup, or two quart sizes are cheap and accurate enough,
and all are marked in milliliters as well as ounces these days. A
darkroom type thermometer is good to have, but cheap; mine cost $5 and
doubles nicely as a stirring rod.

You'll need a daylight film tank and reel that fits the size film you
shoot -- new, this will cost between $15 and $60, depending on brand and
versatility. It's worth getting the better type (Kindermann or
Paterson; look for Hewes stainless reels to make any brand of stainless
tank easier) unless you're on a severe budget and have some previous
experience. Unless you have previous experience loading reels, you're
likely to find the Paterson plastic reels easiest to load, and the
Paterson tank is one of the best.

You'll need a source of darkness for loading the daylight tank -- I use
a changing bag; if you get one, get the larger size (27x27 inches,
IIRC), which has three times the internal space of a small bag for a lot
less than twice the money. Some folks go into a closet, at night, with
the house lights out, and stuff a towel under the door, or do the same
with their bathroom (watch out for LED lights on chargers for electric
razors, clock displays, night lights, etc., which can fog film from
anywhere in the room); if you have fluorescent lights, turn them out for
ten minutes before starting to load film to avoid fogging from afterglow
of the phosphors.

And you'll need detailed instructions and practice, both for loading the
tank, for mixing and measuring chemicals, and for the process of filling
the tank, timing and agitating, draining and refilling. Sacrifice a
roll of film (you can buy expired film, even color, to practice with;
you're not going to actually develop it anyway; if it's more than $1 per
roll, look some more, but make sure it's 36 exposure if you're shooting
35 mm, because the longer rolls handle differently from the short ones),
practice opening the cassette or unrolling the backing paper, starting
the film on the reel, and feeding it in; first, in the light. When you
get comfortable with it, try it with your eyes closed. When you can do
it consistently with eyes closed, try it a few times with the scrap film
in the dark before you try it with important images.

Developing film is easy; I learned to do it at age 10, and did it
successfully unsupervised after doing it once in summer camp. Fine
tuning the process so you get negatives that are easy to print and have
the qualities you want, to fit the images you want to make, requires
practice, study, and sometimes a little luck in finding just the right
combination of film, developer, and process details -- and then all of
that is further dependent on the enlarger, paper, and paper developer,
or scanning and printing system you use to arrive at a final print.

If you're willing to take your time and buy used, in the United States,
you should be able to get the equipment and chemicals to just develop
one size of negatives for under $50 (with luck, you might shave another
$10 or $20 off that figure, but $50 is a figure you can be confident of
if you don't mind spending a few weeks on eBay looking at used tanks and
such); I spent close to $100, but I'm set up to develop film sizes from
16 mm through 4x5 sheets in three different developers. You can do it
with new equipment for one size of film for under $100 and have money
left to buy a few rolls of Tri-X.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Dear Noob (that's funny)
Donald's advice (below mine) & the other posters is great. It's mostly
just about what I was going to say. There are a few things I would
like to emphase:

1. Buy several rolls of bad film to practice with.
2. If you buy 35mm stainless steel reels, if possible take a vernier
caliper & measure the ID between the flanges @ 4 places (90 degs
apart). If not equal return to store. If purchased used, try to bend
back to equal. I wish I could tell you a + or – tolerance. But try to
load any + all reels in the daylight before ever trying in the dark. A
bent SS reel has got to be one of the most madding, frustrating,
mother f'ing things on earth! If it's hard to load in the light, then
it'll be impossible in the dark. Don't try to use it. Take the word of
a veteran & save your self this grief.
3. Practice in the light, loading any or all reel(s) many times.
4. Then eyes closed many times.
5. Then blind folded (Well, maybe both #4 or #5 is a bit much. I do
get a little carried away sometimes, but it can't hurt)
6. Then run through the entire process of processing useless film w/
lights on, a time or 2. Make sure U do everything: set up all 4 baths
(dev. Stop, fixer, & wash); take the temperature of all 4 baths. They
should be w/in + or – 3deg F of each other, & be between 65 & 75F. My
exact #s may be a little off, so check what Kodak or Ilford say.
Finally load the reel(s) & timing each step, process the dummy film.
7. Then # 6 W/ lights out. Can U start or set the timer accurately w/o
lights? Will U know when each minute is up to agitate? This is where a
darkroom specific timer such as a Gralab is so great.
8. When you are ready to do the deed for real, don't use a roll that
has important shots.
9. One very important caution, do not use too much PhotoFlo. PhotoFlo
is not one of those things that if a little is good, then a lot is
better. Use exactly what Kodak says to use, or a little less. (I was
working in a darkroom when a new kid dumped a whole bottle in a tank.
What a mess!)
10. If U have problems w/ a particular reel, don't use it. Go back &
read #2. #2 also applies to 120 reels, but not as much so.
11. If U drop a reel, no matter how little, go back to #2.
12. If U are a highly allergic person, U will probably become allergic
to Metol. I think all Kodak developers use Metol. Or @ least Kodak
uses no Phoedone. (I could be wrong on both counts) Many Illford
developers use Phoedone (sp?), which causes far less allergic
reactions. If U have allergic tendancies, find both a Phoedone based
film & paper developer. Beside Illford, UFG film & LPD paper developer
are both Phoedone based. They also give the bonus of a much longer
life that Metol.
13. I highly recommend that U use a light tight tank for the
developer. While developing film, particularly 400 ASA film is very
sensitive to any light. It's not in the stop bath very long & it's
loosing sensitivity while there. After 30 or so seconds in the fixer,
the film has lost almost all sensitivity. So it's not as important to
have light tightness in the stop & fix. For the 3 last baths any, old
cheap container will do. An ordinary plastic dishpan will work to hold
water to bring all the baths to the same temperature & can be used to
wash the film. You'll still a 4th container for the PhotoFlo. Or U can
use the PhotoFlo tank for the wash.
14. If U live in a hot climate & cannot get tap H2O below 75F or so, U
will have to take special precautions. Call back if U do. Actually, I
forget what the max temp. is for normal processing. Can someone help?
I realize that my recommendations are perhaps a bit anal, (who me?
Anal? Never) & U certainly don't have to take them all, but they can
save you some grief.
With all my & the other posters great advice how can you go wrong?
John


Donald Qualls wrote in message news:YTHZc.14964$3l3.9424@attbi_s03...
EC wrote:

G'day all! I am really wanting to develop my own B&W film at home. The 4
big questions I have a
What are the basics I should be looking at as far as chemicals,
equipment, enlarger, etc.?
How much should I be expecting to spend to get started?
What film/chemical combo is a good start for a noob?
What are some good resources to read to learn the basics?

TIA!
EC

Most basic: a B&W (silver based, not C-41 process) film with a
comfortable speed for the type of photography you do (if you don't know,
start with ISO 400; you can easily change later), a liquid concentrate
developer like HC-110, Ilfotec HC, or Rodinal (for keeping qualities and
ease of dilution to use one-shot), and any brand of liquid rapid fixer
concentrate. You can use water for stop bath just as readily as an
indicator acid stop product (some will say it's better). Strongly
preferred is to get a wetting agent (PhotoFlo 200 or other brand
equivalent) to prevent water spotting, and buy distilled (or at least
filtered) water for mixing chemicals and washing. Measuring equipment
can come from the housewares department in a large supermarket -- cups
in one cup, two cup, or two quart sizes are cheap and accurate enough,
and all are marked in milliliters as well as ounces these days. A
darkroom type thermometer is good to have, but cheap; mine cost $5 and
doubles nicely as a stirring rod.

You'll need a daylight film tank and reel that fits the size film you
shoot -- new, this will cost between $15 and $60, depending on brand and
versatility. It's worth getting the better type (Kindermann or
Paterson; look for Hewes stainless reels to make any brand of stainless
tank easier) unless you're on a severe budget and have some previous
experience. Unless you have previous experience loading reels, you're
likely to find the Paterson plastic reels easiest to load, and the
Paterson tank is one of the best.

You'll need a source of darkness for loading the daylight tank -- I use
a changing bag; if you get one, get the larger size (27x27 inches,
IIRC), which has three times the internal space of a small bag for a lot
less than twice the money. Some folks go into a closet, at night, with
the house lights out, and stuff a towel under the door, or do the same
with their bathroom (watch out for LED lights on chargers for electric
razors, clock displays, night lights, etc., which can fog film from
anywhere in the room); if you have fluorescent lights, turn them out for
ten minutes before starting to load film to avoid fogging from afterglow
of the phosphors.

And you'll need detailed instructions and practice, both for loading the
tank, for mixing and measuring chemicals, and for the process of filling
the tank, timing and agitating, draining and refilling. Sacrifice a
roll of film (you can buy expired film, even color, to practice with;
you're not going to actually develop it anyway; if it's more than $1 per
roll, look some more, but make sure it's 36 exposure if you're shooting
35 mm, because the longer rolls handle differently from the short ones),
practice opening the cassette or unrolling the backing paper, starting
the film on the reel, and feeding it in; first, in the light. When you
get comfortable with it, try it with your eyes closed. When you can do
it consistently with eyes closed, try it a few times with the scrap film
in the dark before you try it with important images.

Developing film is easy; I learned to do it at age 10, and did it
successfully unsupervised after doing it once in summer camp. Fine
tuning the process so you get negatives that are easy to print and have
the qualities you want, to fit the images you want to make, requires
practice, study, and sometimes a little luck in finding just the right
combination of film, developer, and process details -- and then all of
that is further dependent on the enlarger, paper, and paper developer,
or scanning and printing system you use to arrive at a final print.

If you're willing to take your time and buy used, in the United States,
you should be able to get the equipment and chemicals to just develop
one size of negatives for under $50 (with luck, you might shave another
$10 or $20 off that figure, but $50 is a figure you can be confident of
if you don't mind spending a few weeks on eBay looking at used tanks and
such); I spent close to $100, but I'm set up to develop film sizes from
16 mm through 4x5 sheets in three different developers. You can do it
with new equipment for one size of film for under $100 and have money
left to buy a few rolls of Tri-X.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

"Michael R. Lachance" wrote in message
ink.net...
Ken,

I worked in one lab where we used a small table top roller machine for our
BW portrait proofs, I forget what make and model it was, but in retrospect
(14 years later) it would have made one hell of a great RA4 processor for
a
home darkroom setup!


Check that auction site. I picked up a ThermaPhot 302 VR for less than
$500. I had been doing the tube thing for way too many years. Not ever,
not even once, going back. The Jobo is relegated to processing film. I
also picked up a CAP-40 processor from the same guy for $50.00. Need to be
cleaned real good and some wiring fixed (those crimp-on/push-on terminals
had all corroded), but it does IlfoChromes wonderfully. The thing's darned
huge, however.

"Michael R. Lachance" wrote in message
ink.net...
Ken,

I worked in one lab where we used a small table top roller machine for our
BW portrait proofs, I forget what make and model it was, but in retrospect
(14 years later) it would have made one hell of a great RA4 processor for
a
home darkroom setup!


Check that auction site. I picked up a ThermaPhot 302 VR for less than
$500. I had been doing the tube thing for way too many years. Not ever,
not even once, going back. The Jobo is relegated to processing film. I
also picked up a CAP-40 processor from the same guy for $50.00. Need to be
cleaned real good and some wiring fixed (those crimp-on/push-on terminals
had all corroded), but it does IlfoChromes wonderfully. The thing's darned
huge, however.

EC wrote in message ...
There are many books at the library, and of course we need to know
what format you plan to use. Are you working with 35mm? If so, be sure
to select a book that concentrates on 35mm, because it has its own
technique that differs somewhat from that used with large format
(sheet film).

Wow! Thanks everyone! There are some great suggestions here. Thank you
kindly. It seems that this newsgroup is much more useful than some of
the other newsgroups in the rec.photo hierarchy! To answer some of the
questions asked: I am in Canada and am shooting 35mm negatives. I only
shot slides for a little while after taking a very basic course sometime
ago. I would love to take a darkroom course but have not yet found any
courses locally. Initially I think I do want to print, but may
eventually scan the negatives.

Thanks, again,
EC

Scanning is not really equivalent to printing. A negative that makes a
good print may not scan well at all. If you're going to develop your
own film, you are pretty much committing yourself to an enlarger.

EC wrote in message ...
There are many books at the library, and of course we need to know
what format you plan to use. Are you working with 35mm? If so, be sure
to select a book that concentrates on 35mm, because it has its own
technique that differs somewhat from that used with large format
(sheet film).

Wow! Thanks everyone! There are some great suggestions here. Thank you
kindly. It seems that this newsgroup is much more useful than some of
the other newsgroups in the rec.photo hierarchy! To answer some of the
questions asked: I am in Canada and am shooting 35mm negatives. I only
shot slides for a little while after taking a very basic course sometime
ago. I would love to take a darkroom course but have not yet found any
courses locally. Initially I think I do want to print, but may
eventually scan the negatives.

Thanks, again,
EC

Scanning is not really equivalent to printing. A negative that makes a
good print may not scan well at all. If you're going to develop your
own film, you are pretty much committing yourself to an enlarger.

EC wrote:
G'day all! I am really wanting to develop my own B&W film at home. The 4
big questions I have a
What are the basics I should be looking at as far as chemicals,
equipment, enlarger, etc.?
How much should I be expecting to spend to get started?
What film/chemical combo is a good start for a noob?
What are some good resources to read to learn the basics?

A quick search using Google for "developing your own black and white
film" brings back a ton of great results. One that I have read through
and can recommend is this:

http://photography.about.com/library.../aa051401a.htm

I would really suggest contacting your local colleges to see if they run
photography courses. I paid 25UKP to go on a 16 week one earlier this
year and I had full use of a huge 9 workstation dark room for 3 hours
every Wednesday night, with tuition! I also got the 25UKP back
(actually, much much more!) through student discount at the cinema and
when purchasing photography equipment from Jessops!

You don't say if you want to develop film and print too, but if your
only interested in developing film it should cost you less than 40UKP
from eBay.co.uk for equipment and Jessops for chemicals. If you also
want to print your own pictures, this will cost significantly more, but
less than 350UKP for good equipment.

I hope that helps.

Thanks,

Andrew McCall

EC wrote:
G'day all! I am really wanting to develop my own B&W film at home. The 4
big questions I have a
What are the basics I should be looking at as far as chemicals,
equipment, enlarger, etc.?
How much should I be expecting to spend to get started?
What film/chemical combo is a good start for a noob?
What are some good resources to read to learn the basics?

A quick search using Google for "developing your own black and white
film" brings back a ton of great results. One that I have read through
and can recommend is this:

http://photography.about.com/library.../aa051401a.htm

I would really suggest contacting your local colleges to see if they run
photography courses. I paid 25UKP to go on a 16 week one earlier this
year and I had full use of a huge 9 workstation dark room for 3 hours
every Wednesday night, with tuition! I also got the 25UKP back
(actually, much much more!) through student discount at the cinema and
when purchasing photography equipment from Jessops!

You don't say if you want to develop film and print too, but if your
only interested in developing film it should cost you less than 40UKP
from eBay.co.uk for equipment and Jessops for chemicals. If you also
want to print your own pictures, this will cost significantly more, but
less than 350UKP for good equipment.

I hope that helps.

Thanks,

Andrew McCall

EC wrote:

G'day mates . . . . What film/chemical combo
is a good start for a noob? ...

'Antipodean Noob', eh? Have to look that one up
.. . . . here it is. Well, that certainly puts a
different spin on it:

For film it says 'sweat'
For chemical it says 'beer'

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.

EC wrote:

G'day mates . . . . What film/chemical combo
is a good start for a noob? ...

'Antipodean Noob', eh? Have to look that one up
.. . . . here it is. Well, that certainly puts a
different spin on it:

For film it says 'sweat'
For chemical it says 'beer'

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.