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#71
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Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote: Everything is an XXXXXX problem if you don't know the rules by which XXXXXX operates. You shouldn't have to that is the point. Do you play chess? bridge? cricket? Do you drive a car on the roads? You will find that each of those is a problem unless you know the rules by which they work. one does *not* need to know how to build or repair cars to drive one to the store. |
#72
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Capture One 11 Pro: was - Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.
On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 14:15:01 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Neil wrote: There were many image editing programs in those days, but I eventually preferred Aldus PhotoStyler because of its ability to create and save custom tools. Adobe bought Aldus, and shut down PhotoStyler to sell Photoshop, which was quite inferior to it. So, I've used Photoshop since its release and haven't seen anything since version 5 or so that brought something useful to my table. Do you mean Photoshop 5.0 (version 5.0), or Photoshop CS5 (version 12.0)? Version 5.0. The only reason I upgraded beyond that was for OS compatibility. It does little for my productivity to have menus shifted around or the keyboard commands changed. a *lot* has changed since version 5, *far* more than shifting menus and changing keyboard commands (which can be set to whatever you want anyway). If you could read, you'd know that I have newer versions but don't find that their features increase my productivity, the accuracy of my work, or any other aspect critical to me. YMMV. The shifting menus and changing keyboard commands simply waste my time, and I don't care for that, either. keyboard shortcuts can be set to whatever you want and i can't think of which menu options shifted to where it would confuse someone. if anything, it's *more* logical now than it used to be, and if you use the keyboard shortcuts, the menu locations are irrelevant. that tells me you don't know how to use photoshop to its fullest potential (or even part of its potential), which is not surprising given what else you've said. you like doing things the hard way, resistant to change. Neil is using Photoshop to process images to his taste. He found out how to use the basic tool to do that years ago and has found no need to use the more recent bells and whistles. It follows that learning how to use photoshop to its fullest potential would require Neill doing things with images that he has no interest in doing. Neill is using Photoshop to produce images to his taste. He is not using Photoshop as an end in itself. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#73
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Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.
On 10/31/18 6:25 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
snip That's not quite what I want to do. If I had three computers I would want any computer to be able to share with the other two. I have fifteen computers here, and all can access each other's files. I go into file manager, connect to server via SSH, enter the LAN IP address and target directory of the computer I want to access, respond to the prompt with the "target" computer's password, and I'm in. (After the first time, the password manager takes over with the password.) But then, all my computers are running Linux. -- Ken Hart |
#74
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Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.
On 10/31/18 6:37 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens wrote: Everything is an XXXXXX problem if you don't know the rules by which XXXXXX operates. You shouldn't have to that is the point. Do you play chess? bridge? cricket? Do you drive a car on the roads? You will find that each of those is a problem unless you know the rules by which they work. one does *not* need to know how to build or repair cars to drive one to the store. But when the car starts going "wonka wonka wonka" and pulling to the left, it's helpful to know how to change a tire. -- Ken Hart |
#75
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Capture One 11 Pro: was - Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.
On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 14:07:03 -0700, Savageduck
wrote: On Oct 31, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote (in ): On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 12:18:58 -0700, Savageduck wrote: It is beginning to sound as if you simplified your needs, and the degree of efficiency you are content with as a rationalization for not exploring current, or future software developments. I find this discussion rather frustrating. Of course you do. Neil has said that the software he uses produces the results he wants. Why should he be quizzed, with an undertone of criticism, about why he has not explored other software fixes? No undertone of criticism, perhaps one of miscommunication. That first paragraph above is thinly-veiled criticism. You may not have intended it to be, but the use of "are content with" is very condescending and an implied criticism. Isn't the objective of post-processing to get the taken photograph to be right in the eye of the photographer? ...and there are tools which constantly improve to make that easier to do. If I recall correctly you are currently an Adobe CC subscriber, and as such I am sure that you might have discovered a new feature, or tool which has helped you. As nohelp has stated so many times, this is not about me. I take as much pleasure in learning about and employing the tools as I do with the result. Evidently, does not share that feeling, and there's nothing wrong with that. Neil is just as much at fault here as anyone else. Yup! If he's read r.p.d. in the past, he should know that what pleases him is not going to please others when they do it differently, and he should stfu. He's not going to convince anyone that he likes the results he gets the way he does it. ...and yet nobody here has any idea of what results Neil likes, or even which digital camera he shoots. May I remind you that the nose that gets poked into almost every thread in this newsgroup belongs to someone who never shows his results or states what camera he uses? That certainly doesn't stop him from telling everyone else they're doing it wrong. He is hardly an example that better methods result in better results because we don't know if he ends up with anything anyone would call "better". It's not like he's posted images that don't measure up or asked how he can improve doing what he's doing. So true. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
#76
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Capture One 11 Pro: was - Got to admit; when Windows fails, itdoes so spectacularly.
On 10/31/2018 3:18 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Oct 31, 2018, Neil wrote What Photoshop CC is capable of today is very different to what you had in PS 5.0. Not in terms of what I need or how efficiently I can get what I need done. It is beginning to sound as if you simplified your needs, and the degree of efficiency you are content with as a rationalization for not exploring current, or future software developments. Since you have no basis for understanding either the complexity of my needs or what I have done to accommodate them over the decades, I don't see why you think your comment has any rational basis at all. You would have to dismiss many of the things I've already presented in this topic and others: professional lithographic production for over 50 years (which you have no experience with); video production (which you have no experience with); digital image editing since the '70s; designing and building graphics cards for different platforms which necessarily includes writing the programs for them; using software that predated Photoshop; using Photoshop since its introduction; and more. I am quite capable of assessing the usefulness of software to meet my needs and not waste my time. I thought I could have a reasonable discussion with you, Duck. Apparently, I was wrong. Bye. -- best regards, Neil |
#77
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Capture One 11 Pro: was - Got to admit; when Windows fails, itdoes so spectacularly.
On 10/31/2018 4:32 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 12:18:58 -0700, Savageduck wrote: On Oct 31, 2018, Neil wrote (in article ): On 10/31/2018 12:51 PM, Savageduck wrote: On 2018-10-31 15:33:04 +0000, Neil said: On 10/30/2018 6:26 PM, Savageduck wrote: Do you mean Photoshop 5.0 (version 5.0), or Photoshop CS5 (version 12.0)? Version 5.0. The only reason I upgraded beyond that was for OS compatibility. It does little for my productivity to have menus shifted around or the keyboard commands changed. Version 5.0 is over 20 years old and the World has moved under it, that includes finding any currently supported OS, Mac, or Windows. If you re-read what I wrote, above, it clearly states that I'm not still running version 5.0. OK! So which version of Photoshop do you use, or which was the last version you actually used? What Photoshop CC is capable of today is very different to what you had in PS 5.0. Not in terms of what I need or how efficiently I can get what I need done. It is beginning to sound as if you simplified your needs, and the degree of efficiency you are content with as a rationalization for not exploring current, or future software developments. I find this discussion rather frustrating. Neil has said that the software he uses produces the results he wants. Why should he be quizzed, with an undertone of criticism, about why he has not explored other software fixes? Isn't the objective of post-processing to get the taken photograph to be right in the eye of the photographer? Neil is just as much at fault here as anyone else. If he's read r.p.d. in the past, he should know that what pleases him is not going to please others when they do it differently, and he should stfu. He's not going to convince anyone that he likes the results he gets the way he does it. It's not like he's posted images that don't measure up or asked how he can improve doing what he's doing. You raise some good points, Tony. However, I don't have an issue with those who work differently than I. It's their prerogative to do whatever they wish for whatever reason. I have no need to convince those who don't have a frame of reference to understand what I present. Though it's rare, there have been some here with the requisite background that *did* "get it". I also don't critique the images that people post, and I don't post my own images for comment, as it is not something that I have a need or desire to do. What "validates" my images is solely whether my clients publish and distribute them and pay my bills. And, they've done so for over 40 years. -- best regards, Neil |
#78
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Capture One 11 Pro: was - Got to admit; when Windows fails, itdoes so spectacularly.
On 10/31/2018 6:54 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 14:15:01 -0400, nospam wrote: In article , Neil wrote: There were many image editing programs in those days, but I eventually preferred Aldus PhotoStyler because of its ability to create and save custom tools. Adobe bought Aldus, and shut down PhotoStyler to sell Photoshop, which was quite inferior to it. So, I've used Photoshop since its release and haven't seen anything since version 5 or so that brought something useful to my table. Do you mean Photoshop 5.0 (version 5.0), or Photoshop CS5 (version 12.0)? Version 5.0. The only reason I upgraded beyond that was for OS compatibility. It does little for my productivity to have menus shifted around or the keyboard commands changed. a *lot* has changed since version 5, *far* more than shifting menus and changing keyboard commands (which can be set to whatever you want anyway). If you could read, you'd know that I have newer versions but don't find that their features increase my productivity, the accuracy of my work, or any other aspect critical to me. YMMV. The shifting menus and changing keyboard commands simply waste my time, and I don't care for that, either. keyboard shortcuts can be set to whatever you want and i can't think of which menu options shifted to where it would confuse someone. if anything, it's *more* logical now than it used to be, and if you use the keyboard shortcuts, the menu locations are irrelevant. that tells me you don't know how to use photoshop to its fullest potential (or even part of its potential), which is not surprising given what else you've said. you like doing things the hard way, resistant to change. Neil is using Photoshop to process images to his taste. He found out how to use the basic tool to do that years ago and has found no need to use the more recent bells and whistles. It follows that learning how to use photoshop to its fullest potential would require Neill doing things with images that he has no interest in doing. Neill is using Photoshop to produce images to his taste. He is not using Photoshop as an end in itself. First, thanks for your understanding. It's the closest anyone in this discussion has come to getting why I prefer to work the way I do. I don't care for such things as shifting menus, reprogramming keyboard commands, and "push button" effects, and per usual, a few might understand it from the comments, below. 1) When an updated version of an app is released, an amount of time is spent learning it to understand the changes. I deduct that time from my overall productivity at the same rate that I charge for work, and it is not an insignificant cost. 2) Before reprogramming keyboard commands, one has to determine that it won't interfere with the operation of the updated app. As above, it is a cost deducted from my profit. It's usually cheaper to use the "new" key command structure, which takes time to learn and is therefore more costly. 3) My images that I use in business (which are the minority of images in a publication) are those that don't require a lot of work. Those that take some complex editing can't be corrected "globally", as is what happens with plug-ins and push-button effects. I can fix them faster manually than fiddling about with those "features". 4) These days, most of the images that I receive from others for publication are quite good, as the professional photographers that submit them are acclimated to digital photography and have the skills to create and deliver them to my specs, so I rarely have to do much with them. -- best regards, Neil |
#79
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Capture One 11 Pro: was - Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote: Version 5.0. The only reason I upgraded beyond that was for OS compatibility. It does little for my productivity to have menus shifted around or the keyboard commands changed. a *lot* has changed since version 5, *far* more than shifting menus and changing keyboard commands (which can be set to whatever you want anyway). If you could read, you'd know that I have newer versions but don't find that their features increase my productivity, the accuracy of my work, or any other aspect critical to me. YMMV. The shifting menus and changing keyboard commands simply waste my time, and I don't care for that, either. keyboard shortcuts can be set to whatever you want and i can't think of which menu options shifted to where it would confuse someone. if anything, it's *more* logical now than it used to be, and if you use the keyboard shortcuts, the menu locations are irrelevant. that tells me you don't know how to use photoshop to its fullest potential (or even part of its potential), which is not surprising given what else you've said. you like doing things the hard way, resistant to change. Neil is using Photoshop to process images to his taste. He found out how to use the basic tool to do that years ago and has found no need to use the more recent bells and whistles. It follows that learning how to use photoshop to its fullest potential would require Neill doing things with images that he has no interest in doing. thereby confirming what i said. Neill is using Photoshop to produce images to his taste. He is not using Photoshop as an end in itself. just like other photoshop users. |
#80
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Capture One 11 Pro: was - Got to admit; when Windows fails, it does so spectacularly.
In article , Neil
wrote: Neil is using Photoshop to process images to his taste. He found out how to use the basic tool to do that years ago and has found no need to use the more recent bells and whistles. It follows that learning how to use photoshop to its fullest potential would require Neill doing things with images that he has no interest in doing. Neill is using Photoshop to produce images to his taste. He is not using Photoshop as an end in itself. First, thanks for your understanding. It's the closest anyone in this discussion has come to getting why I prefer to work the way I do. I don't care for such things as shifting menus, reprogramming keyboard commands, and "push button" effects, and per usual, a few might understand it from the comments, below. 1) When an updated version of an app is released, an amount of time is spent learning it to understand the changes. I deduct that time from my overall productivity at the same rate that I charge for work, and it is not an insignificant cost. if the changes improve one's productivity, then the amount of time spent learning is a worthwhile investment (and it's not exactly long either). if not, you still learned something new, perhaps useful for some other task. it's always good to learn new things. 2) Before reprogramming keyboard commands, one has to determine that it won't interfere with the operation of the updated app. false. As above, it is a cost deducted from my profit. It's usually cheaper to use the "new" key command structure, which takes time to learn and is therefore more costly. exactly how much time does it take you to learn a new keyboard command? it shouldn't be more than a few minutes. 3) My images that I use in business (which are the minority of images in a publication) are those that don't require a lot of work. Those that take some complex editing can't be corrected "globally", as is what happens with plug-ins and push-button effects. I can fix them faster manually than fiddling about with those "features". wrong. what you're blindly calling plug-ins and push-button effects can be global or localized. the point is that some of them could increase your productivity. 4) These days, most of the images that I receive from others for publication are quite good, as the professional photographers that submit them are acclimated to digital photography and have the skills to create and deliver them to my specs, so I rarely have to do much with them. that's good, but that raises the question, if you rarely have to do anything, why do they even bother sending them to you? |
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