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[SI] Because I feel obligated...



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 27th 04, 03:32 AM
Al Denelsbeck
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Default [SI] Because I feel obligated...


...what with it being my mandate and all.

Been a busy week, but I finally sat down and set thoughts to pixels.
I got a free Whopper at Burger King once for my opinions, so you can rest
assured they do indeed have weight. Or is it mass?

In any event, my commentary follows. For those who want to sing
along, the images in question can be found at
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/culture


Jim Kramer - I find it hard to interpret this image as to what was in Jim's
eye when he shot it. With the vertical format, emphasis is towards the
upper portions where the tangle of wires and lights are, not anything
unique in the US. There's also a lot of empahsis from the street, which
isn't either particularly empty or busy. What is notable is the moderate
age of the buildings, and the design which seems to indicate this was once
a semi-industrial area - those look more like warehouses or manufacturing
plants, high ceilings with windows for lots of light. Also notable is the
close proximity of a rural section, seeming to indicate this wasn't a
particularly successful industrial area which would have expanded to
overtake the trees. Not compelling, the idea takes some examination to get,
but it does speak of a small town that never took off.

Al Denelsbeck - I had other ideas in mind than this, but couldn't make them
work within the time period. What is notable about my area is the draw of
fishing. This isn't too unique, lots of places are considered fishing
areas, but here it's almost a religion, and that's what I was after. Even
the kids are out at sunrise and wading into the river. What I was unable to
show was the local trait of fresh live bait - fisherfolk very frequently
use casting nets to collect the baitfish they will immediately use to
pursue bigger fish. Lures are almost unheard of. Ah well, I aimed to make
it as artsy as I could, anyway.

Bowser - There's nothing unique about this scene, in the US or, I suspect,
many other countries as well. But it does give the idea of the new culture
which has sprung up quite quickly, and the attention it has gotten from
entire families. Notice the matching portable chairs, indicating their
simultaneous purchase. Bowser also timed his shot to catch the field action
between the chairs, very good, but the secret subject is the boy stretched
out on the ground. Uninterested in sports? Trying to catch some meager
shade? It's not clear, but he does realize that he's been caught by the
photographer. I am not a great fan of direct shots, and this one puts a
close barrier up in the pic in my eyes, the line of chairs - I would have
preferred the line at a diagonal to lend more depth, but that could be just
me. Slightly tight for my liking too, but the elements are well-placed in
the frame and balance nicely.

Alan Browne - Very crisp, striking in its contrast. Good angle on the
house, which shows some of the textures well, but the stonework is too
subtle, especially compared to the siding of the addition, and it doesn't
carry strongly enough in my eyes. The framing is very direct - the pic says
'house' and not much more. Though a closer look shows some signage by the
door, so this might not be a house? Taken as a representative of the
residential area, it not only speaks of a fairly well-off neighborhood, but
subtly of a colder clime too - the steep roof and two chimneys, one with a
varmint-screen on it, are a good indication. But this is in marked contrast
to the weather conditions and the flowering plants, so it still remains
pretty subtle overall. Emphasis on one house, up tight, seems to lean away
from the 'culture' idea slightly, since its isolation makes it seem more
like an exception rather than a typical representation. Does this make
sense?

Doug Payne - Simple building, horse & carriage, very simple fences and an
unpaved parking lot. I have to say Los Angeles. This one is slightly
curious, in that portions of it seem to point to Amish country,
northeastern US, but it seems too flat for that. Closer inspection shows
the building is a modular, on a poor foundation (notice the sag), but
obviously intended as permanent, with the basement windows and the half-
hearted planters. Does that sign say, "Clearview School"? Hell of a school
if it does. The distinct electircal connection seems to chase off the Amish
idea as well, though I don't think this rules it out. Slightly tight in the
frame, but again, balanced well, and that tree does a lot for the use of
space, well done. The pic would almost scream out 'isolation' if it weren't
for the factors leading towards us, the driveway and the electrical line -
I get the feeling that the most urban parts of the image are carefully
hidden behind the photographer.

Rich Pos - Hmmmmm. Hard to pin this one down within a representation of
culture. There are indications of beachfront property, but not a prosperous
area - the rope, barrier, sign, and roadside conditions all lean away from
this. The sand on the road and the light at the end of the electrical line
(how many people caught that?) seem to say this is a dead end, but subtly.
The two strong subjects are the flag and the forbidden stairs, and it took
me a bit to determine why these seem at odds with each other. But the flag
says 'unity,' while the barriers say 'isolation'. I can't pin down any
direct feelings regarding this one, and can't assign much of a culture.
Confusing.

Ken Nadvornick - Ken's last entry was a Disney shot, but this one seems
much more so - I'm reminded of the clean-cut short films and specials that
Disney produced through the 50s and 60s, just has that aura for me. The
main subjects are, of course, the sign and the "Wayside Chapel," which is
remarkable in that the scale is truly confusing to the eye. 'Chapels,' is
that what you call them in your area, Ken? We call them 'outhouses' or
occasionally 'Reading Rooms' ;-). The emptiness of the lot speaks volumes,
but even better, the blur of the vehicles in direct alignment with the
"Pause" sign is excellent! If that was intentional, superb! And if not,
don't admit it. Graphic depiction of religion being left behind, nicely
done! Well framed shot, I have to imagine what you were standing on, pretty
nice vista, straight road into distance, and even the subtle effect of the
chapel in the shade where everything else is brightly lit. Too cool.

Joseph Kewfi - Ah, Joseph, up to your old tricks, hold out that wrist. But
this one fits the bill pretty well, since everything visible speaks loudly
of a community get-together. Portable awnings, homemade 'cafeteria'
(complete with hairnets, priceless), and the hand-lettered sign. The idea
of 'food' is slightly muted, it could almost be a flea market display case
until you look closely, and the tiny size of the 'something' being handed
across detracts a little bit from the ol' feedbag concept. But the
interaction between the two main subjects is neat, too - friendly offer
from the more rustic-appearing woman, slight distrust from the more-
sophisticated one. Notice their modes of dress, including the sunglasses,
evocative all by themselves. This one is straight-on too, but I think it's
okay in this context, because it gives no emphasis to either person, and
the counter lends a little depth as well as a nicely metaphoric boundary
between them. Works very well, good job.

Vic Mason - I saw this very spot in "Freaky Friday", didn't I? They cut a
police car in half right on that barrier. Vic's shot is the other side of
the coin from most of the other 'small town' entries, and it gains even
more contrast because of that, not that it needs it. Neat mix of symmetry
and chaos, and the unbalance makes us almost unaware that it's centered
very directly. It's hard to reconcile this with a typical idea of
'culture', and is very impersonal in its approach - I suspect that was the
point. The 'water' carries its own message of contact with the city, very
strongly, and nothing else in the frame detracts from this, unless you
count the distant trees, and how many people actually saw them? They
disappear nicely. I'm not sure if the empty bleachers say more, or if they
would have more impact during a game, dozens of people with their backs
turned to the filth. Even the one patch of reflection, normally implying
clear water, is broken by seams. Strong message of industrial/urban
development, and failing to be masked by the clean geometric lines of the
channels themselves. The muted light helps a lot, too.

Mike Henley - In direct comparison with Vic's, this one is somewhat
anachronistic. This is densely packed urban sprawl that manages to have a
rustic feel at the same time. Cobblestone streets with some classic
stonework and just look at those chimneys - you won't ever find this
anywhere in the states. I think. But it does communicate England/Europe
pretty well. The alley gives a respite from the intensely crowded houses,
preventing a claustrophobic air especially with being dominantly centered,
but the emptiness and scattered bits of trash make it an ignored backalley.
A little bit of interest and de-centering is provided by the old steeple
and the power pole, which reaches out to every house equally. By doing
this, it counters the straight-line effect throughout the rest of the
frame, interesting. Different and compelling.

Michael J. Hoffman - Aw, dammit, now I'm hungry. Yep, a big ol' crab
cookout, and heaping servings too! Michael got the items of interest front
and center, and caught the appropriate attentions of the customers too. But
there's some odd factors at work here. Only one apparent line despite the
implication of two, and the foremost customers seem almost anxious. The
young servers with their first mustaches are nicely separated from everyone
else, and this seems both physical and psychological - nobody's making eye
contact. And nobody's happy, strange for the apparent setting. This is
vaguely disturbing, I get the impression they've been waiting too long for
those crabs. The depth and placement of everything works very well, even
the steam, nice! But the people let it down, and I'm not feeling welcome at
this event. This may be entirely representative of the situation, not sure,
but not a shot to convince visitors how much fun the town is. Ah, but it's
an archive (whack!), so that's changed by now, right? ;-)

Colm Gallagher - Colm you're good at sending mixed signals to an atheist
wildlife photographer, you know that? There's a bit of classical music
that's always used for sunshiney peaceful mornings in TV commercials
(usually for fabric softener); anyone remember the name? Anyway, that's
what this says pretty distinctly. For such a simple shot, there's lots of
little things going on here. The overall impression of gentle, peaceful
deer under the benign view of christianity carries well, but then there's
the well-tended lawn, one of those unnatural 'natural' areas - doesn't seem
to be fazing the fawns, so now we have the impression of a developed area
still appealing to wildlife. A concept many housing developments try to
communicate. The fawns are excellently sharp, standing out very well, but
of course the cross still competes for domination in the frame. The speck
needs to go. The frame is not-so-subtly split between upper (out of focus)
and lower (sharp) by that hill's edge, and it works in this context -
perhaps something can even be implied from that, I'll be nice and won't
speculate. Could stand losing that bare line in the foreground grass, too.
As for culture? Like Rich's, hard to assign, but this one is almost a clash
between culture (a human concept) and ecology. Would have fit nice for my
second-choice mandate of "Backyard Wildlife", though ;-)

The Dave - Hmmm. Exposure gives the emphasis to the sky, not really the
local culture, so it misses a little with that. Looking closely, the
storefronts have an old-west-stagecoach-stop facade to them, which tells me
this is probably the 'historic' part of town. Every town seems to have one,
and like most, it is a surface impression only, because despite the old
style lampposts, the cars kind of give it away (I would have liked that
foremost lamppost below the roofline for lots more impact, too - it gets
lost in the sky). No street markings either. Being unable to make out any
of the signs turns the town generic, and the lack of obvious people (I saw
one, looking hard) coupled with the sunset communicates a very quiet time,
perhaps only a pause. Now, for a slightly different take on it, the two
cars of the same exact model in close proximity has its own message about
US culture, in a way: Individualism has to compete with conformity. Or
maybe I'm reading too much into it...

Bret Douglas - Nice toss! I'm hoping you caught it again, I don't want to
see subject lines like, "REPAIRSHOPS LOVE THE SHATTERED D-60!". Bret caught
a nice old-seeming cemetery from the air, with nice little lanes in a
rustic locale, and the scattering of tombstones gives just the faintest
hint of geometrical layout. Those power lines really are distinct, though.
But what gets me is, where do people park for the services? Alright, maybe
it's not a church, but then why the big front facade? I think it's a drive-
through church, which would make it less rustic than it seems ("D'you want
absolution with that?"). Anyway, it does carry the idea of a sparse and
quaint area pretty well, and including the long driveway and the road out
front helped this a lot, as well as the lawns. A little soft, I suspect
from the aircraft, but forgiveable considering the distance of the subject
- it doesn't seem to hurt the idea behind the image much.

Matt Clara - Ah, another one departing from the small town idea! And a
color one from him, too! How'd that happen? Matt used a wide-angle lens to
not only get more of the city in, but to make the buildings loom as well,
emphasizing the vertical aspect. Just a little light left in the sky for
outlining the big building, making it a primary subject. Overall, pretty
well done, but the flags seem a bit too blown out (thanks to spotlighting I
suspect). The motion of the flags, cars, and people is good, nice hustle-
bustle feel, but what the hell's that guy doing in there with a plaid
shirt? Go home, country boy! (It really does jump out at me). There's a
distinct break in the image at the flagpoles, and you'll notice that all
the activity takes place on only one side of them, making the break even
more distinct, a curious factor. I think I would have liked to have seen a
vantage point slightly further back to spread out those flagpoles and
provide foreground depth, but that probably would have resulted in lots of
car horns and cussing. And less of a separation, or better use of it,
either one.

Parv - A downtown street rod show. I wonder if any other country in the
world has these? This one does pretty well, in that it shows the purpose
quite well, the mixed but maintained styles of the downtown area, and a
halfway decent mix of the local people. The people seem a little distant,
though, nobody to relate to, and not a lot of attention on the cars.
Moreover, the contrast drops the cars a little too dark, making them less
distinct in the pic. Good idea, good subject, could stand a bit more
personal approach I think, or perhaps just better timing with the crowds -
I get the feeling, helped by the people facing away, that things are
wrapping up for the day.

Well, I've run out of steam, so I guess it's good there are no more
pics. A transcript of tonight's show can be obtained from the station.
Alvis has now left the building.


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to match domain below
Online photo gallery at www.wading-in.net
  #2  
Old June 27th 04, 07:26 AM
parv
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default [SI] Because I feel obligated...

in message ,
wrote Al Denelsbeck ...

In any event, my commentary follows.


I thanks you Al D for listing the finer details that i miss for not
looking closer than taking a peek.


the images in question can be found at
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/culture


Inclusion of the URL was a nice touch.


Parv - This one does pretty well, in that it shows the purpose
quite well, the mixed but maintained styles of the downtown area,
and a halfway decent mix of the local people. The people seem a
little distant, though, nobody to relate to, and not a lot of
attention on the cars.


Lack of people is intentional as i did not want anybody to interfere
the blue-yellow-red-green color blocks. That block shifts left
going over white-blue-black-orange ending in
blue/green-grey-red/orange.


I went to the event w/ the purpose of getting close ups of engine
parts. Not every car's engine was on display; those that had,
deflated my original idea. Then i noticed the colors which is how i
used ~28 frames, ~4 of which were chrome-atic reflections.


I must say the problems pointed so far, discounting my motives, are
quite correct.


- parv

--
As nice it is to receive personal mail, too much sweetness causes
tooth decay. Unless you have burning desire to contact me, do not do
away w/ WhereElse in the address for private communication.

  #3  
Old June 27th 04, 08:39 AM
Ken Nadvornick
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Posts: n/a
Default [SI] Because I feel obligated...

"Al Denelsbeck" wrote:

Ken Nadvornick - Ken's last entry was a Disney shot, but this one seems
much more so - I'm reminded of the clean-cut short films and specials that
Disney produced through the 50s and 60s, just has that aura for me. The
main subjects are, of course, the sign and the "Wayside Chapel," which is
remarkable in that the scale is truly confusing to the eye. 'Chapels,' is
that what you call them in your area, Ken? We call them 'outhouses' or
occasionally 'Reading Rooms' ;-). The emptiness of the lot speaks volumes,
but even better, the blur of the vehicles in direct alignment with the
"Pause" sign is excellent! If that was intentional, superb! And if not,
don't admit it. Graphic depiction of religion being left behind, nicely
done! Well framed shot, I have to imagine what you were standing on,

pretty
nice vista, straight road into distance, and even the subtle effect of the
chapel in the shade where everything else is brightly lit. Too cool.


Hi Al,

Well, it certainly isn't very large, seating only 4-6 people Perhaps a
"family" outhouse? g I had occasion to drive by again just this evening
at the tail end of dusk. There was a single lightbulb illuminating the
interior. You could see it out in the darkness for a good distance as you
approached. Nice effect.

Actually, those vehicles' positioning and blurring were indeed intentional
as a way to reinforce the remoteness of both the structure and its intended
purpose. (See my long-winded description in "street shooter's" critique,
posted before your comments.) Although, to be perfectly fair, when I
originally arrived there was a young mother with two children just leaving,
so it's not as if it *never* gets used. (And not really as an outhouse, as
included on the roadsign is the phrase "No Facilities," just in case...)

Thanks for your insightful comments. You obviously devote a fair amount of
time to the effort, which I do appreciate.

Ken



  #4  
Old June 27th 04, 09:53 AM
C.G.
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Posts: n/a
Default [SI] Because I feel obligated...

Thanks Al,

You're not at all bad at this commenting malarkey!
The area in question is the Phoenix Park, Dublin, Ireland. The park is about 1,700 acres and is
home to hundreds of deer. The cross dates back to the visit of Pope JP2 in 1979, back when he was
doing big gigs (1.3 million at this venue). The deer are grazing on a soccer pitch (
http://www.colmgallagher.com/deer.jpg and http://www.colmgallagher.com/deer2.jpg ), which accounts
for the grass being reasonably well tended.

Thanks for all your comments. I enjoyed reading through all of them and seeing what I had missed.

--
Colm


"Al Denelsbeck" wrote in message
. 7...
:

: Colm Gallagher - Colm you're good at sending mixed signals to an atheist
: wildlife photographer, you know that? There's a bit of classical music
: that's always used for sunshiney peaceful mornings in TV commercials
: (usually for fabric softener); anyone remember the name? Anyway, that's
: what this says pretty distinctly. For such a simple shot, there's lots of
: little things going on here. The overall impression of gentle, peaceful
: deer under the benign view of christianity carries well, but then there's
: the well-tended lawn, one of those unnatural 'natural' areas - doesn't seem
: to be fazing the fawns, so now we have the impression of a developed area
: still appealing to wildlife. A concept many housing developments try to
: communicate. The fawns are excellently sharp, standing out very well, but
: of course the cross still competes for domination in the frame. The speck
: needs to go. The frame is not-so-subtly split between upper (out of focus)
: and lower (sharp) by that hill's edge, and it works in this context -
: perhaps something can even be implied from that, I'll be nice and won't
: speculate. Could stand losing that bare line in the foreground grass, too.
: As for culture? Like Rich's, hard to assign, but this one is almost a clash
: between culture (a human concept) and ecology. Would have fit nice for my
: second-choice mandate of "Backyard Wildlife", though ;-)


  #5  
Old June 27th 04, 12:39 PM
Rich Pos
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Posts: n/a
Default [SI] Because I feel obligated...

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 02:32:20 GMT, Al Denelsbeck
wrote:

Hmmmmm. Hard to pin this one down within a representation of
culture. There are indications of beachfront property, but not a prosperous
area - the rope, barrier, sign, and roadside conditions all lean away from
this. The sand on the road and the light at the end of the electrical line
(how many people caught that?) seem to say this is a dead end, but subtly.
The two strong subjects are the flag and the forbidden stairs, and it took
me a bit to determine why these seem at odds with each other. But the flag
says 'unity,' while the barriers say 'isolation'. I can't pin down any
direct feelings regarding this one, and can't assign much of a culture.
Confusing.


Hi Al. Once again, very astute observations.
Upon seeing the back lit flag I got so excited I didn't give the
mandate my full attention. That's why these mandates
are wonderful exercises for me, learning to see more than just a
building on a beach.

I'll keep working on being more specific with covering a mandate...
hopefully you will keep critiquing.

The road is a dead end......as is much of the culture in this area

Thanks,

RP©

  #6  
Old June 27th 04, 05:25 PM
Alan Browne
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Posts: n/a
Default [SI] Because I feel obligated...

Al Denelsbeck wrote:

Alan Browne - Very crisp, striking in its contrast. Good angle on the
house, which shows some of the textures well, but the stonework is too
subtle, especially compared to the siding of the addition, and it doesn't
carry strongly enough in my eyes. The framing is very direct - the pic says
'house' and not much more. Though a closer look shows some signage by the
door, so this might not be a house? Taken as a representative of the
residential area, it not only speaks of a fairly well-off neighborhood, but
subtly of a colder clime too - the steep roof and two chimneys, one with a
varmint-screen on it, are a good indication. But this is in marked contrast
to the weather conditions and the flowering plants, so it still remains
pretty subtle overall. Emphasis on one house, up tight, seems to lean away
from the 'culture' idea slightly, since its isolation makes it seem more
like an exception rather than a typical representation. Does this make
sense?



First off Al, thanks for taking the time to comment in detail on
all of the images. It is work and well done.

Regarding above, thanks.

The 'addition' is a good spot by you. Definitiely not part of
the original. The framing is a consequence of other issues such
as a commercial garage on the right, an ugly 'new' church behind
and wires and signs and such.

The house, once upon a time a wealthy farmer's house, is now a
software firms place of business. The area would have been
considered "well off" in the 1950's, but is today a more
blue-collar neighborhood (well-tended, small lots). The house
here is between the residential area (left) and commercial strip
(117) on the right).

Your "two chimneys" observation is key wrt the mandate as most
rural/farming houses of the era 1700 - 1900 were built in a
similar manner (often smaller houses too). As stated in my "my
photo" post, much of todays Quebecois culture in song, story and
poetry, reflects on the time of Les Seignuries, north shore
logging and small pastoral villages. (There is a recent
Quebecois movie called "Seraphin, heart of stone" (english
version) that you may be able to rent in your area. This will
plunk you right into it).

The 'isolation' of the house is not per se untypical, as such
houses were farming houses and stood alone. (The barn(s) was
(were) probably destroyed in the early 1900's.) The houses that
now surround this one were built in the last 80 year, long after
the first tenants of this house were buried...

Cheers,
Alan


--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

  #7  
Old June 29th 04, 04:45 AM
Lionel
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Posts: n/a
Default [SI] Because I feel obligated...

Kibo informs me that Al Denelsbeck stated that:

http://www.pbase.com/shootin/culture

[...]
Vic Mason - I saw this very spot in "Freaky Friday", didn't I? They cut a
police car in half right on that barrier. Vic's shot is the other side of
the coin from most of the other 'small town' entries, and it gains even
more contrast because of that, not that it needs it. Neat mix of symmetry
and chaos, and the unbalance makes us almost unaware that it's centered
very directly. It's hard to reconcile this with a typical idea of
'culture', and is very impersonal in its approach - I suspect that was the
point. The 'water' carries its own message of contact with the city, very
strongly, and nothing else in the frame detracts from this, unless you
count the distant trees, and how many people actually saw them? They
disappear nicely. I'm not sure if the empty bleachers say more, or if they
would have more impact during a game, dozens of people with their backs
turned to the filth. Even the one patch of reflection, normally implying
clear water, is broken by seams. Strong message of industrial/urban
development, and failing to be masked by the clean geometric lines of the
channels themselves. The muted light helps a lot, too.


My girlfriend was sitting here with me when I looked at this batch of
shots, & she made an interesting observation about Vic's image. She
pointed out that the concrete walls look very much like the prow of an
ocean-liner or oil tanker. Looking at the shot that way leads to a quite
a surreal experience, as though a sportsfield has been built on a ship,
& is coming towards the viewer.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
  #8  
Old July 5th 04, 04:14 PM
Doug Payne
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Posts: n/a
Default [SI] Because I feel obligated...

Al Denelsbeck wrote:

Doug Payne - Simple building, horse & carriage, very simple fences and an
unpaved parking lot. I have to say Los Angeles. This one is slightly
curious, in that portions of it seem to point to Amish country,
northeastern US, but it seems too flat for that. Closer inspection shows
the building is a modular, on a poor foundation (notice the sag), but
obviously intended as permanent, with the basement windows and the half-
hearted planters. Does that sign say, "Clearview School"? Hell of a school
if it does. The distinct electircal connection seems to chase off the Amish
idea as well, though I don't think this rules it out. Slightly tight in the
frame, but again, balanced well, and that tree does a lot for the use of
space, well done. The pic would almost scream out 'isolation' if it weren't
for the factors leading towards us, the driveway and the electrical line -
I get the feeling that the most urban parts of the image are carefully
hidden behind the photographer.


Nothing even remotely urban within 25 km of that shot. The other side of the
road is a farmer's field. The local Mennonites and Amish (I'm not in the US)
range from strict horse and buggy with no electricity except perhaps where
required for things like commerical milk production (whole sideroads with no
hydro poles) to city-living people that are indistinguishable from the rest of
the population. This school is somewhere in the middle of that range. Thanks
for the comments.

 




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