Apple cuts $50 off price for replacment phone batteries, sheepishly offers apology

"RichA" wrote

| You KNOW they aren't making a loss, even at $29.00 so their margins on the
batteries are HUGE!
|

I already explained that in your last thread
and it was detailed in the BBC link I posted.
Apple may not get caught very often, but you
don't have to rub it in.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| You KNOW they aren't making a loss, even at $29.00 so their margins on the
batteries are HUGE!

I already explained that in your last thread
and it was detailed in the BBC link I posted.
Apple may not get caught very often, but you
don't have to rub it in.

apple didn't 'get caught'.

many other products use the same or similar power management for
exactly the same reasons.

there is no avoiding the fact that batteries age and their ability to
source high current loads is reduced over time.

android phones:
https://source.android.com/devices/tech/power/mgmt
Battery life is a perennial user concern. To extend battery life,
Android continually adds new features and optimizations to help the
platform optimize the off-charger behavior of applications and
devices.

guess what 'optimize the off-charger behavior' means.

it's doublespeak for 'reduce performance when on battery power so it
lasts longer'.

"RichA" wrote

| I'm not even saying their reasoning for slowing down the phones was wrong,
but they should have left it as an opinion.
|

You meant "option"? In any case, they don't have a leg
to stand on. People have been complaining for years.
There are 8 lawsuits. Yet in all that time Apple refused
to even acknowledge what they were doing, much less
explain or provide an end-user option.

If I find a stranger in my house I assume he's broken
in. What if he says he just came in because he thought
he saw a window unlocked and decided to check them all?
.....But he only admits he broke into my house after I've
called the police....

Maybe he was telling the truth. But he lied, hid the facts,
and went onto my property without permission. He only
admitted breaking in when he no longer had a choice.
That's Apple's situation. I don't think they're just dutifully
checking window locks, but that's really an academic
question. They're guilty of trespass, tampering and lying.

On 12/29/2017 01:11 PM, RichA wrote:
On Friday, 29 December 2017 10:09:09 UTC-5, nospam wrote:
In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| You KNOW they aren't making a loss, even at $29.00 so their margins on the
batteries are HUGE!

I already explained that in your last thread
and it was detailed in the BBC link I posted.
Apple may not get caught very often, but you
don't have to rub it in.

apple didn't 'get caught'.

many other products use the same or similar power management for
exactly the same reasons.

there is no avoiding the fact that batteries age and their ability to
source high current loads is reduced over time.

android phones:
https://source.android.com/devices/tech/power/mgmt
Battery life is a perennial user concern. To extend battery life,
Android continually adds new features and optimizations to help the
platform optimize the off-charger behavior of applications and
devices.

guess what 'optimize the off-charger behavior' means.

it's doublespeak for 'reduce performance when on battery power so it
lasts longer'.

Something about "two wrongs" comes up.
I presume they do the tests on this? So, what is the average battery lifespan, what is the decline in output based on use/time and why not just publish those figures so people would have a reasonable idea of how long the performance they paid for will work to 100%?

To an engineer who understands charts and graphs, that might make sense.
But the average customer does not understand. They also don't understand
that "average" means some will perform better and some will perform worse.

The performance of a battery decreases starting from the day it was
manufactured.

--
Ken Hart

In article ,
RichA wrote:

I'm not even saying their reasoning for slowing down the phones was wrong,
but they should have left it as an opinion.

nope, because end users don't have all of the necessary information to
make a proper choice.

the wrong choice may result in sudden unexpected shutdowns, potential
data loss and/or hardware damage.

it's also adaptive, based on the load at the time, so they'd be forever
enabling/disabling it.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| I'm not even saying their reasoning for slowing down the phones was wrong,
but they should have left it as an opinion.

You meant "option"? In any case, they don't have a leg
to stand on.

yes they do. it's called chemistry and physics.

People have been complaining for years.

not about this, they haven't, since it only began last january with the
release of 10.2.1, to address a different problem.

There are 8 lawsuits. Yet in all that time Apple refused
to even acknowledge what they were doing, much less
explain or provide an end-user option.

they not only acknowledged it, but disclosed it when they implemented
the changes last year.

prior to that, some phones were experiencing a sudden shutdown. this
*fixes* that problem and *extends* the useful life of the phone.

the lawsuits claim planned obsolescence, yet what apple did is the
*opposite*.

If I find a stranger in my house I assume he's broken
in. What if he says he just came in because he thought
he saw a window unlocked and decided to check them all?
....But he only admits he broke into my house after I've
called the police....

Maybe he was telling the truth. But he lied, hid the facts,
and went onto my property without permission. He only
admitted breaking in when he no longer had a choice.
That's Apple's situation. I don't think they're just dutifully
checking window locks, but that's really an academic
question. They're guilty of trespass, tampering and lying.

that's nothing at all like apple's situation.

as usual, you are so full of hate you can't see the actual facts nor do
you want to see the facts. you just want to hate.

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:

Something about "two wrongs" comes up.
I presume they do the tests on this? So, what is the average battery
lifespan, what is the decline in output based on use/time and why not
just publish those figures so people would have a reasonable idea of how
long the performance they paid for will work to 100%?

To an engineer who understands charts and graphs, that might make sense.
But the average customer does not understand. They also don't understand
that "average" means some will perform better and some will perform worse.

The performance of a battery decreases starting from the day it was
manufactured.

yep.

also, end users don't understand power management, performance versus
efficiency tradeoffs, maximizing battery life, internal resistance,
voltage drops under load and much more, nor do they need to.

In article ,
RichA wrote:


Something about "two wrongs" comes up.
I presume they do the tests on this?

far more tests than you can possibly imagine.

not only does apple do tests internally, but each phone is constantly
monitoring its own battery health, managing it on the fly.

plenty of other companies do the same or similar, including android.

So, what is the average battery
lifespan, what is the decline in output based on use/time and why not just
publish those figures so people would have a reasonable idea
of how long the performance they paid for will work to 100%?

they do.

apple states that their batteries are rated to retain 80% capacity over
5 years.

most people get a new phone in 2 years, so the battery will outlast the
useful life of the phone.

In article ,
RichA wrote:

I think there were two reasons they did it:

both are wrong

1. 300-500 dead to full charge cycles is enough to hobble a lithium battery,
even without fast charging and this would undoubtedly produce warranty issues
with people who do a lot of charging. $$$

batteries are rated for 80% after 500 cycles, which is *not* in any way
'hobbled' and that's also several *years* in typical use, longer than
most people will keep the phone.

2. It does make people want to go to a new phone if they perceive that their
current phone is "too slow."

if it was 'too slow', they'd likely get a competitor's phone.

as has been stated, the reason it was done, is that aging batteries
cannot supply sufficient current for peak demands, so to avoid sudden
unexpected shutdowns or possible hardware damage, peak demand is
reduced (not overall demand as is widely claimed).

there is *no* avoiding battery aging, no matter what product it is.

battery issues are also not unique to apple:
http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/12...e-developed-a-
battery-early-shutoff-problem-and-its-becoming-a-safety-issue/
A number of Nexus 6P owners have reported an alarming battery problem
with their phones as of Android 7.0 being released for the handset,
which causes the phone to power down when the battery gauge still
shows anywhere from 10 to 60% battery remaining.

which would you prefer? unexpected shutdowns or a reduction of peak
(not overall) performance, which is not noticeable in most cases?

In article ,
RichA wrote:

Something about "two wrongs" comes up.
I presume they do the tests on this?

far more tests than you can possibly imagine.

not only does apple do tests internally, but each phone is constantly
monitoring its own battery health, managing it on the fly.

plenty of other companies do the same or similar, including android.

Who is "android?"

all products running google android.

Do you mean Samsung?

everyone.

If so, they don't do it. They say.

except that the underlying android os does.

https://source.android.com/devices/tech/power/mgmt
Battery life is a perennial user concern. To extend battery life,
Android continually adds new features and optimizations to help the
platform optimize the off-charger behavior of applications and
devices.

not doing that risks sudden unexpected shutdowns and potential data
loss, which is *worse*.

http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/12...e-developed-a-
battery-early-shutoff-problem-and-its-becoming-a-safety-issue/
A number of Nexus 6P owners have reported an alarming battery problem
with their phones as of Android 7.0 being released for the handset,
which causes the phone to power down when the battery gauge still
shows anywhere from 10 to 60% battery remaining.