Commercial print resolution about 5 megapixels?

On 2015-05-11 02:40, RichA wrote:
I got a 16x20" print made and measured the smallest detail visible
which was about 1/5th of a mm. This works out to about 5 megapixels
represented by the print. Is this the limit of standard print
resolution?

Depends what "Commercial" means.

Magazine print runs at a resolution approximating 180 dpi as does poster
work (advertising). (Can't compare directly as the dot pattern is not
at all the same).

The Fujifilm Frontier that many stores used as their "lab" printer
printed at 720 or optionally 1440.

"Pro" printers such as the Epson 3800 physically print at 1440, but the
typical preparation resolution is 360.

If you prep'd for 150 dpi (7 Mpix) and viewed the print normally you
would still see the same resolved detail at a normal viewing distance
for that size of print. Of course if the original image was not all
that sharp, then it's moot.

On 5/11/2015 9:26 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2015-05-11 02:40, RichA wrote:
I got a 16x20" print made and measured the smallest detail visible
which was about 1/5th of a mm. This works out to about 5 megapixels
represented by the print. Is this the limit of standard print
resolution?

Depends what "Commercial" means.

Magazine print runs at a resolution approximating 180 dpi as does poster
work (advertising). (Can't compare directly as the dot pattern is not
at all the same).

The Fujifilm Frontier that many stores used as their "lab" printer
printed at 720 or optionally 1440.

"Pro" printers such as the Epson 3800 physically print at 1440, but the
typical preparation resolution is 360.

I frequently do extreme cropping, and print 12x18 at 350 ppi. Would I
gain anyting if I prep at a much higher ppi?

Would I gain anyting if I send a tiff file over? (Costco accepts tiff files)





--
PeterN

On 2015-05-11 10:30, PeterN wrote:
On 5/11/2015 9:26 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2015-05-11 02:40, RichA wrote:
I got a 16x20" print made and measured the smallest detail visible
which was about 1/5th of a mm. This works out to about 5 megapixels
represented by the print. Is this the limit of standard print
resolution?

Depends what "Commercial" means.

Magazine print runs at a resolution approximating 180 dpi as does poster
work (advertising). (Can't compare directly as the dot pattern is not
at all the same).

The Fujifilm Frontier that many stores used as their "lab" printer
printed at 720 or optionally 1440.

"Pro" printers such as the Epson 3800 physically print at 1440, but the
typical preparation resolution is 360.

I frequently do extreme cropping, and print 12x18 at 350 ppi. Would I
gain anyting if I prep at a much higher ppi?

The numbers are those that apply after cropping and sizing the image.

So if you crop a 6000 x 4000 image down to 600 x 400 pixels (as an
extreme example), then that's all the real resolution left. At 150 dpi
that would be 4 x 2.6 inches as a print.

Would I gain anyting if I send a tiff file over? (Costco accepts tiff
files)

Not really. A good JPG (usually) has enough detail and DR for any
printer. This assumes of course that it's a decently prepared image.
(Decently exposed and sharp to begin with too).

On 5/11/15 PDT 8:12 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2015-05-11 10:30, PeterN wrote:
On 5/11/2015 9:26 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2015-05-11 02:40, RichA wrote:
I got a 16x20" print made and measured the smallest detail visible
which was about 1/5th of a mm. This works out to about 5 megapixels
represented by the print. Is this the limit of standard print
resolution?

Depends what "Commercial" means.

Magazine print runs at a resolution approximating 180 dpi as does poster
work (advertising). (Can't compare directly as the dot pattern is not
at all the same).

The Fujifilm Frontier that many stores used as their "lab" printer
printed at 720 or optionally 1440.

"Pro" printers such as the Epson 3800 physically print at 1440, but the
typical preparation resolution is 360.

I frequently do extreme cropping, and print 12x18 at 350 ppi. Would I
gain anyting if I prep at a much higher ppi?

The numbers are those that apply after cropping and sizing the image.

So if you crop a 6000 x 4000 image down to 600 x 400 pixels (as an
extreme example), then that's all the real resolution left. At 150 dpi
that would be 4 x 2.6 inches as a print.

Would I gain anyting if I send a tiff file over? (Costco accepts tiff
files)

Not really. A good JPG (usually) has enough detail and DR for any
printer. This assumes of course that it's a decently prepared image.
(Decently exposed and sharp to begin with too).

Many folks conflate PPI with DPI, but they most definitely are not the
same.

Printers often have a range of dots they can put down (DPI), and the
higher number, the better resolution of the print. Input, however, is
critical, and the input is pixels. One can print a 48 ppi at a dpi of
1400, but the results will be horrid, a waste of ink and time. One can
print a 600 ppi at 150 dpi, but also a waste, as a much better print can
be made with a higher dpi setting on the printer.

As to the original question, ask the printer what it was printed at. You
may get a blank stare, but worth asking. As to TIFF, you may get better
results, more due to the printer thinking you know a lot! Probably more
important to match the color space- so ask if they want sRGB or aRGB.

Please let us know how the next one turns out.

Alan Browne wrote:
The numbers are those that apply after cropping and sizing the image.

So if you crop a 6000 x 4000 image down to 600 x 400
pixels (as an extreme example), then that's all the real
resolution left. At 150 dpi that would be 4 x 2.6
inches as a print.

That is a misconception. First, Epson printers print at
360 *PPI*. They cannot print at 150 *PPI*.

They may use 1440 *DPI* or whatever, but that just tells
us how many dots of various colored inks make up one
pixel. If the printer is set for 1440 DPI resolution
each pixel will be made of a 4x4 dot matrix (16 separate
squirts of ink possible).

A 600x400 pixel image, at 360 PPI, will be 1.67"x1.11"
in size. If it prints at a different size it means your
print driver was told to resample it to different pixel
dimensions before printing, and you are NOT printing a
600x400 pixel image.

The point is that the printer cannot be made to change
from 360 PPI. It can only adjust the image size, not
the pixel rate.

With an Epson printer you cannot physically print at a
150 PPI rate.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

So if you crop a 6000 x 4000 image down to 600 x 400
pixels (as an extreme example), then that's all the real
resolution left. At 150 dpi that would be 4 x 2.6
inches as a print.

That is a misconception. First, Epson printers print at
360 *PPI*. They cannot print at 150 *PPI*.

if you send it a 150 ppi image, they will.

nospam wrote:
In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

So if you crop a 6000 x 4000 image down to 600 x 400
pixels (as an extreme example), then that's all the real
resolution left. At 150 dpi that would be 4 x 2.6
inches as a print.

That is a misconception. First, Epson printers print at
360 *PPI*. They cannot print at 150 *PPI*.

if you send it a 150 ppi image, they will.

There is no such thing. You can't send a "150 ppi image".
You can send an image with a set pixel dimension, such as
600x400.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

On 5/11/2015 11:35 AM, John McWilliams wrote:
On 5/11/15 PDT 8:12 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2015-05-11 10:30, PeterN wrote:
On 5/11/2015 9:26 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2015-05-11 02:40, RichA wrote:
I got a 16x20" print made and measured the smallest detail visible
which was about 1/5th of a mm. This works out to about 5 megapixels
represented by the print. Is this the limit of standard print
resolution?

Depends what "Commercial" means.

Magazine print runs at a resolution approximating 180 dpi as does
poster
work (advertising). (Can't compare directly as the dot pattern is not
at all the same).

The Fujifilm Frontier that many stores used as their "lab" printer
printed at 720 or optionally 1440.

"Pro" printers such as the Epson 3800 physically print at 1440, but the
typical preparation resolution is 360.

I frequently do extreme cropping, and print 12x18 at 350 ppi. Would I
gain anyting if I prep at a much higher ppi?

The numbers are those that apply after cropping and sizing the image.

So if you crop a 6000 x 4000 image down to 600 x 400 pixels (as an
extreme example), then that's all the real resolution left. At 150 dpi
that would be 4 x 2.6 inches as a print.

Would I gain anyting if I send a tiff file over? (Costco accepts tiff
files)

Not really. A good JPG (usually) has enough detail and DR for any
printer. This assumes of course that it's a decently prepared image.
(Decently exposed and sharp to begin with too).

Many folks conflate PPI with DPI, but they most definitely are not the
same.

Printers often have a range of dots they can put down (DPI), and the
higher number, the better resolution of the print. Input, however, is
critical, and the input is pixels. One can print a 48 ppi at a dpi of
1400, but the results will be horrid, a waste of ink and time. One can
print a 600 ppi at 150 dpi, but also a waste, as a much better print can
be made with a higher dpi setting on the printer.

As to the original question, ask the printer what it was printed at. You
may get a blank stare, but worth asking. As to TIFF, you may get better
results, more due to the printer thinking you know a lot! Probably more
important to match the color space- so ask if they want sRGB or aRGB.

Please let us know how the next one turns out.

The color space is not an issue because I use the ICC profile for that
printer, and the paper I want for printing.
I size my prints for 12 x 18 @ 350 ppi. Perhaps to make it clear I
wanted to know if I gained anything by sizing 12 x 18 @ a significantly
higher ppi.

--
PeterN

On Mon, 11 May 2015 10:30:51 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

On 5/11/2015 9:26 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2015-05-11 02:40, RichA wrote:
I got a 16x20" print made and measured the smallest detail visible
which was about 1/5th of a mm. This works out to about 5 megapixels
represented by the print. Is this the limit of standard print
resolution?

Depends what "Commercial" means.

Magazine print runs at a resolution approximating 180 dpi as does poster
work (advertising). (Can't compare directly as the dot pattern is not
at all the same).

The Fujifilm Frontier that many stores used as their "lab" printer
printed at 720 or optionally 1440.

"Pro" printers such as the Epson 3800 physically print at 1440, but the
typical preparation resolution is 360.

I frequently do extreme cropping, and print 12x18 at 350 ppi. Would I
gain anyting if I prep at a much higher ppi?

Would I gain anyting if I send a tiff file over? (Costco accepts tiff files)

You would gain if you prepped your print at 100% at the native
resolution of your printer (360 dpi for Epson, 300 dpi for just about
everything else). That way the printer driver has to do no resizing or
resampling of the image. That way you print what you had seen.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 12/05/2015 4:36 a.m., Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:
The numbers are those that apply after cropping and sizing the image.

So if you crop a 6000 x 4000 image down to 600 x 400
pixels (as an extreme example), then that's all the real
resolution left. At 150 dpi that would be 4 x 2.6
inches as a print.

That is a misconception. First, Epson printers print at
360 *PPI*. They cannot print at 150 *PPI*.


360 ppi is a divisor of the nominal printer dpi setting, 1440, 2880 etc.
I did some very thorough tests with an R1800 to assess resolution for
stereo imaging pairs, on glossy photo paper.
It did resolve more than 360ppi if the printer was sent an image (test
pattern) at precisely 720dpi and 1440dpi. Horizontal (relative to the
direction of paper feed) resolution of full-tones approached 360 lines
per inch. Diagonal and vertical resolution dropped significantly, as
did half-tones, but still easily exceeded 360dpi (180 lpi) overall.
Viewed under a microscope, the ink droplets on the surface are oval -
"stretched" in the direction of print-head travel.
These days I usually print on untextured matte / fine art papers with an
R3880. While output on semi-gloss/pearl papers can be extremely good,
this is where these printers truly shine (IMO).