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Matching the aspect of ancient photographs.



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 7th 15, 10:40 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Floyd L. Davidson
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Posts: 5,138
Default Matching the aspect of ancient photographs.

Sandman wrote:
In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Peter Jason:
I have some old photos of my locality going
back about 70 years.

I want to compare these old scenes with their modern
equivalents.

How does one position a camera (and lens) to match the
ancient scenes so that the old & current images are
superimposable (or nearly so).

Peter

Sandman:
You take a wider shot and then crop. Photoshop can
help you fix perspective differences as well, but the closer
you are to the same spot when you take the pic, the better.

Floyd L. Davidson:
You can't change the perspective in post processing.

Sandman:
With modern software, you can.


You can not.


Incorrect.

Take a picture of a car parked in front of your house from across
the street with a 105mm macro lens. You'll be able to see a great
deal of your house.


Now use the same camera and lens to take a picture of the same car,
except shoot from 3 inches away from the car door at the door's
midpoint. You won't be able to even see your house, much less any
of it's details.


That is the perspective which is important in recreating an older
image. It depends entirely on the location of the camera when the
picture is taken. It cannot be adjusted even slightly in post
processing.


Learn to read, Floyd.


Yeah, right!

Sandman bites the dust... one more time. (And poor nospam goes too.)

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #12  
Old May 7th 15, 12:56 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sandman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,467
Default Matching the aspect of ancient photographs.

In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Peter Jason:
I have some old photos of my locality going
back about 70 years.

I want to compare these old scenes with their modern
equivalents.

How does one position a camera (and lens) to match the
ancient scenes so that the old & current images are
superimposable (or nearly so).

Peter

Sandman:
You take a wider shot and then crop. Photoshop
can help you fix perspective differences as well, but the
closer you are to the same spot when you take the pic, the
better.

Floyd L. Davidson:
You can't change the perspective in post
processing.

Sandman:
With modern software, you can.

Floyd L. Davidson:
You can not.


Sandman:
Incorrect.


Floyd L. Davidson:
Take a picture of a car parked in front of your house from
across the street with a 105mm macro lens. You'll be able to
see a great deal of your house.


Now use the same camera and lens to take a picture of the same
car, except shoot from 3 inches away from the car door at the
door's midpoint. You won't be able to even see your house, much
less any of it's details.


That is the perspective which is important in recreating an
older image. It depends entirely on the location of the camera
when the picture is taken. It cannot be adjusted even slightly
in post processing.


Sandman:
Learn to read, Floyd.


Yeah, right!


Sandman bites the dust... one more time. (And poor nospam goes
too.)


Will you let us know if you get the chance to learn to read anytime soon?

I'm not holding my breath.

--
Sandman
  #13  
Old May 7th 15, 02:41 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Whiskers
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Posts: 188
Default Matching the aspect of ancient photographs.

On 2015-05-07, Peter Jason wrote:
I have some old photos of my locality going back about 70 years.

I want to compare these old scenes with their modern equivalents.

How does one position a camera (and lens) to match the ancient scenes
so that the old & current images are superimposable (or nearly so).


Look for landmarks that still exist, judge from the old pictures how
they align with each other, and using maps and moving yourself about in
the actual landscape refine your first guesses until you find yourself
in the one position which matches the alignment of things in the old
picture.

Don't be too surprised if you find the old photos were taken from a
point that is no longer accessible, or even there - such as the roof of
a building since demolished, or the roof of a car since driven away.

Take note of local history. Buildings and even hills can be moved, but
that usually leaves some trace in the gossip of locals.

Some old photos are composites, with different elements taken from
photos shot from different places and at different times. Clashing
shadows and weird perspectives might reveal those.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
  #14  
Old May 7th 15, 03:31 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
MB[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Matching the aspect of ancient photographs.

On 07/05/2015 14:41, Whiskers wrote:
On 2015-05-07, Peter Jason wrote:
I have some old photos of my locality going back about 70 years.

I want to compare these old scenes with their modern equivalents.

How does one position a camera (and lens) to match the ancient scenes
so that the old & current images are superimposable (or nearly so).


Look for landmarks that still exist, judge from the old pictures how
they align with each other, and using maps and moving yourself about in
the actual landscape refine your first guesses until you find yourself
in the one position which matches the alignment of things in the old
picture.

Don't be too surprised if you find the old photos were taken from a
point that is no longer accessible, or even there - such as the roof of
a building since demolished, or the roof of a car since driven away.

Take note of local history. Buildings and even hills can be moved, but
that usually leaves some trace in the gossip of locals.

Some old photos are composites, with different elements taken from
photos shot from different places and at different times. Clashing
shadows and weird perspectives might reveal those.




As has been suggested, the picture will quite possible have been taken
on a plate camera where angle of the lens can be changed to adjust
verticals. There are cameras that will do this and modern software will
allow some correction.

I tend to often take very wide shots with large expanses of space in the
foreground and then crop down.

I have taken a few showing a 'then and now' view, they are not perfectly
aligned but near enough to show the changes.

http://www.mbriscoe.me.uk/page273a.html

One of Murphy's Laws probably says that you can guarantee that something
will have been built blocking the view though!


  #15  
Old May 7th 15, 04:06 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Matching the aspect of ancient photographs.

In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:


You can't change the perspective in post processing.


https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/perspective-warp.html
Photoshop lets you easily adjust perspective in images. This feature
is particularly useful for images having straight lines and flat
surfacesfor example, architectural images and images of buildings.
You can also use this feature to composite objects having different
perspectives in a single image.


Not the same thing. What they are saying is it will
align a single object, such a vertical line that are
tilting.


what you're calling alignment is also called perspective.

The problem with duplicating the perspective in a new
image to be the same as an old image is quite different.
Perspective means that some distant objects are hidden
by other closer objects.


that's also called perspective.
  #16  
Old May 7th 15, 04:54 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Floyd L. Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,138
Default Matching the aspect of ancient photographs.

Sandman wrote:
In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Peter Jason:
I have some old photos of my locality going
back about 70 years.

I want to compare these old scenes with their modern
equivalents.

How does one position a camera (and lens) to match the
ancient scenes so that the old & current images are
superimposable (or nearly so).

Peter

Sandman:
You take a wider shot and then crop. Photoshop
can help you fix perspective differences as well, but the
closer you are to the same spot when you take the pic, the
better.

Floyd L. Davidson:
You can't change the perspective in post
processing.

Sandman:
With modern software, you can.

Floyd L. Davidson:
You can not.

Sandman:
Incorrect.


Floyd L. Davidson:
Take a picture of a car parked in front of your house from
across the street with a 105mm macro lens. You'll be able to
see a great deal of your house.

Now use the same camera and lens to take a picture of the same
car, except shoot from 3 inches away from the car door at the
door's midpoint. You won't be able to even see your house, much
less any of it's details.

That is the perspective which is important in recreating an
older image. It depends entirely on the location of the camera
when the picture is taken. It cannot be adjusted even slightly
in post processing.

Sandman:
Learn to read, Floyd.


Yeah, right!


Sandman bites the dust... one more time. (And poor nospam goes
too.)


Will you let us know if you get the chance to learn to read anytime soon?

I'm not holding my breath.


We all wish you would!

Is this another case of you are going to tell us how to define
words in English? Should be good for a hoot.

Please provide a dictionary definition of perspective that matches
what you think Adobe was trying to say (using the wrong words, BTW).

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #17  
Old May 7th 15, 04:55 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
John McWilliams
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Posts: 6,945
Default Matching the aspect of ancient photographs.

On 5/7/15 PDT 2:13 AM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 07 May 2015 02:36:56 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

You take a wider shot and then crop. Photoshop can help you fix perspective
differences as well, but the closer you are to the same spot when you take
the pic, the better.

You can't change the perspective in post processing.


https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/perspective-warp.html
Photoshop lets you easily adjust perspective in images. This feature
is particularly useful for images having straight lines and flat
surfaces‹for example, architectural images and images of buildings.
You can also use this feature to composite objects having different
perspectives in a single image.


My experience is that this a faux change in perspective. I have tried
this on a nuber of images and found that it introduces a number of
visible distortions. DxO is noticeably better but still is not
perfect. Moral: you have to place the modern camera in the same
position as the original. Afterall it's sight lines which determine
perspective.


The best way is to determine the spot from which the original was shot,
and the focal length and aperture of the lens used at the time, and
duplicate it. Everything else is a fudge- and sometimes confection is
needed.

Was there a more or less standard lens and preferred focal length in the
1940's? Were they Brownie shots or large format?

  #18  
Old May 7th 15, 05:02 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
John McWilliams
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Posts: 6,945
Default Matching the aspect of ancient photographs.

On 5/7/15 PDT 8:54 AM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
Sandman wrote; In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

I'm not holding my breath.


We all wish you would!

Is this another case of you are going to tell us how to define
words in English? Should be good for a hoot.


No, we don't all wish that. Many of us wish for more civility from
either of you, but are not expecting same. Jonas' understanding and
writing of English is well above average —for even native
English-speaking folk.

Your perspective example, Floyd, addresses only one aspect of the concept.




  #19  
Old May 7th 15, 05:27 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Floyd L. Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,138
Default Matching the aspect of ancient photographs.

John McWilliams wrote:
On 5/7/15 PDT 8:54 AM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
Sandman wrote; In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

I'm not holding my breath.


We all wish you would!

Is this another case of you are going to tell us how to define
words in English? Should be good for a hoot.


No, we don't all wish that. Many of us wish for more
civility from either of you, but are not expecting
same. Jonas' understanding and writing of English is
well above average ---for even native English-speaking
folk.

Your perspective example, Floyd, addresses only one aspect of the concept.


It addresses the aspect that counts in this situation.

And please do not compare my civility to the rather
crude and discusting rants that Sandman produces.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #20  
Old May 7th 15, 05:57 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
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Posts: 3,854
Default Matching the aspect of ancient photographs.

In article ,
John McWilliams wrote:

On 5/7/15 PDT 2:13 AM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 07 May 2015 02:36:56 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

You take a wider shot and then crop. Photoshop can help you fix
perspective
differences as well, but the closer you are to the same spot when you
take
the pic, the better.

You can't change the perspective in post processing.

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/perspective-warp.html
Photoshop lets you easily adjust perspective in images. This feature
is particularly useful for images having straight lines and flat
surfacesÐfor example, architectural images and images of buildings.
You can also use this feature to composite objects having different
perspectives in a single image.


My experience is that this a faux change in perspective. I have tried
this on a nuber of images and found that it introduces a number of
visible distortions. DxO is noticeably better but still is not
perfect. Moral: you have to place the modern camera in the same
position as the original. Afterall it's sight lines which determine
perspective.


I broke down and took a look at the link above. The Adobe software don't
change the perspective but distorts it. Then of course all lenses but
fisheyes distorts reality! ;-p

The best way is to determine the spot from which the original was shot,
and the focal length and aperture of the lens used at the time, and
duplicate it. Everything else is a fudge- and sometimes confection is
needed.


As said elsewhere in the thread. Go to the original spot. That should
not be that difficult with the original photo in hand! Break out your
iCam or what ever and take a snap. Use the sepia mode... Crop to taste!

Was there a more or less standard lens and preferred focal length in the
1940's? Were they Brownie shots or large format?


Where's the OP???
--
teleportation kills
 




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