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Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 27th 18, 11:09 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

A 35mm camera is a camera which uses 35mm movie film. These come is
sveral different frame sizes using one or two movie frames.


obsolete definition.
  #12  
Old December 28th 18, 12:02 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Ken Hart[_4_]
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Posts: 569
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

On 12/27/18 5:09 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

A 35mm camera is a camera which uses 35mm movie film. These come is
sveral different frame sizes using one or two movie frames.


obsolete definition.


There are quite a lot of people who would disagree with your
characterization of "obsolete". A "35mm camera" is a camera that uses
35mm film- has been for many, many years, and will continue to be for
many, many years.

Google "what is a 35mm camera":
First hit is Wikipedia: "35mm format...The term 35mm camera usually
refers to a still photographic film camera which uses the 35mm format on
135 film. Such cameras have been produced by Leica, Kodak, Argus, Nikon,
Canon..."

Google "35mm camera":
First hit is "Buy & sell used 35mm film cameras at KEH Camera. Save up
to 40% of retail and get a 365-day warranty! Financing options
available." Not a single digital camera appears at that link. (BTW, I
personally recommend KEH Camera for used gear.)

B&H comes up a couple links down the page, followed by eBay and Amazon;
with pages of 35mm FILM cameras. All this because Google apparently
assumes that "35mm camera" equals "35mm film camera".

A suggested related google search is "best 35mm camera". That search's
first page does not include a single digital camera, only 35mm film
cameras. Perhaps Google considers film cameras to be better than
digital?! More likely, Google knows that a 35mm camera is a film camera.

A digital camera that looks and feels like a 35mm camera, is a "dSLR",
or a "35mm form factor camera", or a "35mm-style digital camera". A
"35mm camera" is a film camera.

Deal with it.

--
Ken Hart

  #13  
Old December 28th 18, 12:43 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:

A 35mm camera is a camera which uses 35mm movie film. These come is
sveral different frame sizes using one or two movie frames.


obsolete definition.


There are quite a lot of people who would disagree with your
characterization of "obsolete". A "35mm camera" is a camera that uses
35mm film- has been for many, many years, and will continue to be for
many, many years.


film is obsolete, as is your definition.

a '35mm camera', aka an slr, is now digital, and is compatible with
nearly all lenses and accessories in a given system (except for the
ones that started fresh, such as m43).

50 year old nikon lenses work on modern nikon slr bodies. the old
flashes also work, although only in manual or old school auto (no ttl).

those old lenses also work on non-nikon bodies with a suitable adapter,
including canon, m43 and mirrorless.

winders and motor drives are obsolete, since there's nothing to wind
and digital can shoot faster anyway.




A digital camera that looks and feels like a 35mm camera, is a "dSLR",
or a "35mm form factor camera", or a "35mm-style digital camera". A
"35mm camera" is a film camera.


almost all cameras sold are digital, therefore the d is redundant.

i don't think the nikon f6 film slr (note the 'f') is even made anymore
(not that it sold very many when it was).

nikon's digital slrs begin with 'd'. guess what that's for.

in other words, digital is the *default* and film is the *exception*.

that means that 'film' should be a prefix when referring to an old
school camera and its absence means digital.

Deal with it.


that goes for you.
  #14  
Old December 28th 18, 03:37 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Ron C
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Posts: 415
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

On 12/27/2018 6:43 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Ken Hart
wrote:

A 35mm camera is a camera which uses 35mm movie film. These come is
sveral different frame sizes using one or two movie frames.

obsolete definition.


There are quite a lot of people who would disagree with your
characterization of "obsolete". A "35mm camera" is a camera that uses
35mm film- has been for many, many years, and will continue to be for
many, many years.


film is obsolete, as is your definition.

a '35mm camera', aka an slr, is now digital, and is compatible with
nearly all lenses and accessories in a given system (except for the
ones that started fresh, such as m43).

50 year old nikon lenses work on modern nikon slr bodies. the old
flashes also work, although only in manual or old school auto (no ttl).

those old lenses also work on non-nikon bodies with a suitable adapter,
including canon, m43 and mirrorless.

winders and motor drives are obsolete, since there's nothing to wind
and digital can shoot faster anyway.




A digital camera that looks and feels like a 35mm camera, is a "dSLR",
or a "35mm form factor camera", or a "35mm-style digital camera". A
"35mm camera" is a film camera.


almost all cameras sold are digital, therefore the d is redundant.

i don't think the nikon f6 film slr (note the 'f') is even made anymore
(not that it sold very many when it was).

nikon's digital slrs begin with 'd'. guess what that's for.

in other words, digital is the *default* and film is the *exception*.

that means that 'film' should be a prefix when referring to an old
school camera and its absence means digital.

Deal with it.


that goes for you.

All that is true, but [IMO] not really helpful.
~~
As I see it, the problem is that the [consumer] interchangeable
lens industry focused on the 35mm format rather than a field
angle format. Vast numbers of users of that [35mm] format
equated focal length with wide/normal/(etc.) perspective lenses.
~~
Thing is, that 135mm normal angle lens on my 4x5 camera produces
the same perspective as a 135 telephoto lens on my 35mm camera
when cropped equivalently. Thus, each 36x24mm segment of my
4x5 will be the same as a frame from the 35mm camera.
~~
With so many sensor formats these days, maybe the industry needs
to begin defining lenses by field of view rather than 35mm focal
length equivalents.
--
==
Later...
Ron C
--
  #15  
Old December 28th 18, 03:41 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

In article , Ron C
wrote:

As I see it, the problem is that the [consumer] interchangeable
lens industry focused on the 35mm format rather than a field
angle format. Vast numbers of users of that [35mm] format
equated focal length with wide/normal/(etc.) perspective lenses.


which is why they're using 35mm lenses as a reference point. it's what
people know.

~~
Thing is, that 135mm normal angle lens on my 4x5 camera produces
the same perspective as a 135 telephoto lens on my 35mm camera
when cropped equivalently. Thus, each 36x24mm segment of my
4x5 will be the same as a frame from the 35mm camera.


perspective is based on the position of the camera, not the lens used.

~~
With so many sensor formats these days, maybe the industry needs
to begin defining lenses by field of view rather than 35mm focal
length equivalents.


having so many sensor formats is exactly why they *can't* do that.
  #16  
Old December 28th 18, 05:23 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 18:43:35 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:

A 35mm camera is a camera which uses 35mm movie film. These come is
sveral different frame sizes using one or two movie frames.

obsolete definition.


There are quite a lot of people who would disagree with your
characterization of "obsolete". A "35mm camera" is a camera that uses
35mm film- has been for many, many years, and will continue to be for
many, many years.


film is obsolete, as is your definition.

a '35mm camera', aka an slr, is now digital, and is compatible with
nearly all lenses and accessories in a given system (except for the
ones that started fresh, such as m43).

50 year old nikon lenses work on modern nikon slr bodies. the old
flashes also work, although only in manual or old school auto (no ttl).

those old lenses also work on non-nikon bodies with a suitable adapter,
including canon, m43 and mirrorless.

winders and motor drives are obsolete, since there's nothing to wind
and digital can shoot faster anyway.




A digital camera that looks and feels like a 35mm camera, is a "dSLR",
or a "35mm form factor camera", or a "35mm-style digital camera". A
"35mm camera" is a film camera.


almost all cameras sold are digital, therefore the d is redundant.

i don't think the nikon f6 film slr (note the 'f') is even made anymore
(not that it sold very many when it was).

nikon's digital slrs begin with 'd'. guess what that's for.

in other words, digital is the *default* and film is the *exception*.

that means that 'film' should be a prefix when referring to an old
school camera and its absence means digital.

Deal with it.


that goes for you.


What a lot of irrelevant blather!
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #17  
Old December 28th 18, 05:27 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

A 35mm camera is a camera which uses 35mm movie film. These come is
sveral different frame sizes using one or two movie frames.

obsolete definition.

There are quite a lot of people who would disagree with your
characterization of "obsolete". A "35mm camera" is a camera that uses
35mm film- has been for many, many years, and will continue to be for
many, many years.


film is obsolete, as is your definition.

a '35mm camera', aka an slr, is now digital, and is compatible with
nearly all lenses and accessories in a given system (except for the
ones that started fresh, such as m43).

50 year old nikon lenses work on modern nikon slr bodies. the old
flashes also work, although only in manual or old school auto (no ttl).

those old lenses also work on non-nikon bodies with a suitable adapter,
including canon, m43 and mirrorless.

winders and motor drives are obsolete, since there's nothing to wind
and digital can shoot faster anyway.




A digital camera that looks and feels like a 35mm camera, is a "dSLR",
or a "35mm form factor camera", or a "35mm-style digital camera". A
"35mm camera" is a film camera.


almost all cameras sold are digital, therefore the d is redundant.

i don't think the nikon f6 film slr (note the 'f') is even made anymore
(not that it sold very many when it was).

nikon's digital slrs begin with 'd'. guess what that's for.

in other words, digital is the *default* and film is the *exception*.

that means that 'film' should be a prefix when referring to an old
school camera and its absence means digital.

Deal with it.


that goes for you.


What a lot of irrelevant blather!


nothing irrelevant about it.

digital is now the default. film requires a modifier.

'camera' or 'slr' is digital.
  #18  
Old December 28th 18, 12:46 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sam Brown
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Posts: 6
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

"Ken Hart" wrote in message
news
On 12/24/18 6:10 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Sam Brown
wrote:

As I understand it, on a 35mm camera if 2 different lenses have the
same
focal length then the angle of view would be the same in each case.


only if the sensor size is the same.

a '35mm camera' can have at least five different sensor sizes.


A '35mm' _style_ _digital_ camera can have different sensor sizes.

An actual 35mm film camera has one sensor size, 24x36mm. (Unless, of
course, it is a half-frame 35mm camera, or one of the early 35mm cameras
made before the 24x36 standard, but that's a different animal.)


Is it the same on a smartphone (only focal length determines angle of
view) or does sensor size also affect the angle of view?


it does, the same as with any camera.


In theory, if the film/sensor size is increased, the angle of view from
a given focal length lens will increase, and the magnification of the
image will be less.

An 80mm lens on a medium format camera (60mm film size) is a 'normal'
lens. An 80mm lens on a large format camera (4"X5" film) is a wide angle
lens. An 80mm lens on a 35mm film camera (24mm X 36mm) is a long or
telephoto lens.

(In the real world, a lens is designed to cover a specific film/sensor
size. Putting a 35mm camera lens on a 4"x5" camera will most likely give
you a small image in the middle of the film.)

--
Ken Hart


I would agree with all that. A 35mm camera refers to one which uses 35mm
film and I would add the frame size implied is the standard one in such
cameras (24 x 36mm). Surely that is the reference being mentioned in
specs which state "35mm equivalent".

Of course you could have half frame 35mm cameras (or even some odd size)
but surely that's not what's being implied. If the frame size isn't
standardized then the focal length reference would become meaningless.





  #19  
Old December 28th 18, 12:49 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sam Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

"nospam" wrote in message
...
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

A 35mm camera is a camera which uses 35mm movie film. These come
is
sveral different frame sizes using one or two movie frames.

obsolete definition.

There are quite a lot of people who would disagree with your
characterization of "obsolete". A "35mm camera" is a camera that
uses
35mm film- has been for many, many years, and will continue to be
for
many, many years.

film is obsolete, as is your definition.

a '35mm camera', aka an slr, is now digital, and is compatible with
nearly all lenses and accessories in a given system (except for the
ones that started fresh, such as m43).

50 year old nikon lenses work on modern nikon slr bodies. the old
flashes also work, although only in manual or old school auto (no
ttl).

those old lenses also work on non-nikon bodies with a suitable
adapter,
including canon, m43 and mirrorless.

winders and motor drives are obsolete, since there's nothing to wind
and digital can shoot faster anyway.




A digital camera that looks and feels like a 35mm camera, is a
"dSLR",
or a "35mm form factor camera", or a "35mm-style digital camera". A
"35mm camera" is a film camera.

almost all cameras sold are digital, therefore the d is redundant.

i don't think the nikon f6 film slr (note the 'f') is even made
anymore
(not that it sold very many when it was).

nikon's digital slrs begin with 'd'. guess what that's for.

in other words, digital is the *default* and film is the *exception*.

that means that 'film' should be a prefix when referring to an old
school camera and its absence means digital.

Deal with it.

that goes for you.


What a lot of irrelevant blather!


nothing irrelevant about it.

digital is now the default. film requires a modifier.

'camera' or 'slr' is digital.


I suspect he means there's not much in your previous post (about 35mm
cameras etc) which addresses the points about focal length and field of
view.






  #20  
Old December 28th 18, 04:00 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

In article , Sam Brown
wrote:


What a lot of irrelevant blather!


nothing irrelevant about it.

digital is now the default. film requires a modifier.

'camera' or 'slr' is digital.


I suspect he means there's not much in your previous post (about 35mm
cameras etc) which addresses the points about focal length and field of
view.


it exactly addressed it.

tl;dr there are multiple sensor sizes, so a lens with a given focal
length can have different fields of view, even on the same camera.
 




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