Silver halide photo paper - what life

Dave wrote:
Apples and oranges - digital silver halide prints are just prints
made
on photo paper. No different than standard prints made from negatives
at your local mini lab. Only in this case they use a different
enlarger
head (hence "digital") to expose the image onto the paper.

Don't mini-labs use dye-sublimation printers? I don't know exactly but
isn't it supposed to be inferior to digital silver halide printing?
Cheers,

Siddhartha

Dave wrote:
But (at least in the US), if you drop off a CF card or CD for
printing
at a mini lab they do it on the same RA-4 machine that they use to
make
prints from negatives (but not from slides - different process).
When I doubt, ask if they print using a wet/silver halide/RA-4
process
or not.

http://www.ofoto.com/PrintsOverview.jsp?

Kodak's Ofoto site says:
# We use digital silver halide printing to produce fine-quality
archival photographic prints.
# Because our prints are archival quality, they should last as long as
prints you would receive from a professional analog photo-processing
labratory.
# We use high-quality Kodak paper and state-of-the-art printers for all
Ofoto prints.

The Indian site (Kodak Express www.kodakexpress.co.in) doesn't say
anything about the process or paper but I believe it should be the
same.

Can someone point me to a link on how digital silver halide and
conventional printing work? Couldn't find much by googling.
Cheers,

Siddhartha

"Dave" writes:

The kiosk-style machines at mini-labs use something else (not sure if
it's dye-sub or what) that is inferior to silver halide.

It depends. Some kiosks are connected to dye-subs (typically Kodak in my
experience), while others connect to the machine in the back that is the same
machine that prints film (typically Fuji in the places I frequent).

But (at least in the US), if you drop off a CF card or CD for printing
at a mini lab they do it on the same RA-4 machine that they use to make
prints from negatives (but not from slides - different process).
When I doubt, ask if they print using a wet/silver halide/RA-4 process
or not.

Though depending on the training of the clerk, you might get the blank deer in
the headlights stare if you ask the question that way.

--
Michael Meissner
email:
http://www.the-meissners.org

True enough, sad to say.

Are you talking about color? Silver halide is long term (100s of
years) if on archival paper, but that is black and white images. Add
color and you are talking about dyes, all of which fade. All colors,
no matter what its composition, with the exception of a few minerals,
fade over time. So don't expect ANY color print to last a normal
human lifetime.

Siddhartha Jain wrote:

Hello,

I just ordered some prints from Kodak Express (Ofoto). Kodak uses
something called Digital silver halide printing. How is this different
from archival quality prints made from slides/negatives? And what life
can you expect from these prints?

Thanks,

Siddhartha

"Siddhartha Jain" wrote:
http://www.ofoto.com/PrintsOverview.jsp?

Kodak's Ofoto site says:
# We use digital silver halide printing to produce fine-quality
archival photographic prints.
# Because our prints are archival quality, they should last as long as
prints you would receive from a professional analog photo-processing
labratory.
# We use high-quality Kodak paper and state-of-the-art printers for all
Ofoto prints.

Right, and that agrees with what Dave was saying. Ofoto uses
"digital silver halide printing", where the conventional process
is optical/analog silver halide printing. The paper and
chemicals are the same, and that's what determines longevity.

Can someone point me to a link on how digital silver halide and
conventional printing work? Couldn't find much by googling.

Try Googling "Digital Minilab". Or maybe "lightjet", "Fuji
Frontier", or 'Noritsu' + 'digital'.


--
--Bryan

George E. Cawthon wrote:
Are you talking about color? Silver halide is long term (100s of
years) if on archival paper, but that is black and white images. Add
color and you are talking about dyes, all of which fade. All colors,
no matter what its composition, with the exception of a few minerals,
fade over time. So don't expect ANY color print to last a normal
human lifetime.

Ok, so irrespective of digital or analog:
Silver halide process + B+W dyes = Archival quality
Silver halide process + Colour dyes = Fade because colour dyes fade
Thanks,

Siddhartha

Siddhartha Jain wrote:
George E. Cawthon wrote:

Are you talking about color? Silver halide is long term (100s of
years) if on archival paper, but that is black and white images. Add
color and you are talking about dyes, all of which fade. All colors,
no matter what its composition, with the exception of a few minerals,
fade over time. So don't expect ANY color print to last a normal
human lifetime.


Ok, so irrespective of digital or analog:
Silver halide process + B+W dyes = Archival quality
Silver halide process + Colour dyes = Fade because colour dyes fade
Thanks,

Siddhartha


There are no dyes in the B&W silver halide process. What gives the
black, white, and shades of gray are the density of very tiny clumps of
silver halide crystals. So, the picture is made of these inert crystals
that stay there. In 'wet' B&W printing, the two things you need to make
it really archival are proper Fixing of those crystals and paper that
will last a long time.

In 'wet' color darkroom processes, the image is first created in B&W
using the same process. Then the silver halide crystals are washed out
and replaced by little 'clouds' of dye or some other bits of color. This
is done on 3 layers to give the full range of colors.

Most of these dyes will fade to a lessor or greater extent. Machine
prints have a reputation of fading fairly quickly. "C Type" (most
common) prints using the latest materials will last much longer than
they used to. "R Type" prints and Ilfochrome are two processes that are
designed to last for decades - maybe many decades. True "Dye Sub" (that
is almost impossible to get any more) will probably last as long as good
B&W prints.

Well, that's the simplified version. If you are ordering color prints
through normal commercial sources, you are probably getting machine
prints or "C Type" prints. Neither of which is likely to last as long as
an Epson pigment-ink print on the right paper. If they are advertising
"R Type" or Ilfochrome, they will certainly make that very clear.

Clyde

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in
:

Are you talking about color? Silver halide is long term (100s of
years) if on archival paper, but that is black and white images. Add
color and you are talking about dyes, all of which fade. All colors,
no matter what its composition, with the exception of a few minerals,
fade over time. So don't expect ANY color print to last a normal
human lifetime.


My mom used to get a photo taken of me each year when I was a kid. Some of
the earliest are B&W, but almost all are color. That's like 35 years ago.
One of her prints has faded to the extent that it is objectionable, but all
the rest look just fine.

Color materials have improved greatly since the 70s.

Bob

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