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#61
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Another Camera Seized
"Ron Hunter" wrote in message ... Dudley, You sound like a person I wouldn't want to know. Your confrontational attitude, and tendency to do really stupid things (hitting a cop) will likely keep your life very interesting. I hope that you have learned to be less pugnacious as you have gotten older. I suspect that in this area, you would still be sitting in prison, wondering how you got there. Without wanting to appear overly dramatic, you might want to keep in mind that I had been diagnosed at the age of 14 with a condition that would result in a slow, permanent, and complete loss of vision. I was highly graphical, and had been taking pictures of top-shelf rock bands since the age of 18. How many 18 year old photographers do you know who were allowed backstage to shoot (unsupervised) Supertramp, Trooper, Peter Frampton, Eddie Money, Heart, etc...?? Also, I was racing my Mustang with only about 10% normal vision without having an accident. At the age of 22, my vision deteriorated to the point of no-return, and I had to give up my license, and I went into a rather hazy stage of drug and alcohol use in order to cope with the depression. There were a few rather fuzzy years about that time, and I didn't pull out of it until I met my wife-to-be at around 28, which is when I started getting my life back on track. Did I have a "chip on my shoulder," as has been suggested? Yeah, probably, but I think most psychologists would think that normal for the circumstances. Did I rather tenaciously pursue my rights, more so than Mr. or Ms. Average Joe(sephine)? Probably, and I still do because able-bodied people continually trample them. A right is only a right when it is granted by others, or defended by the claiming party. Hence, I have learned that, if I want to pursue happiness, as most North Americans like to do, I sometimes have to beat my way through a rather callused crowd. I think you will find this sentiment rather wide-spread in any disabled community -- especially when dealing with the more highly motivated members of those communities. Take Care, Dudley |
#62
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Another Camera Seized
"Chris H" wrote in message ... In message gSQCl.21933$PH1.3321@edtnps82, Dudley Hanks writes "Chris H" wrote in message ... There is no shortage of video footage / still shots showing the Boys in Blue at their worst; Sadly true as is there many more instances of their heroic efforts. Yes but not usually on film. Whilst most of the bad behaviour is caught often the good side is missed. But that's life. Coming from a family which has produced a few law enforcement officers and military servicemen, my sympathies ultimately coincide with the LEO's. I prefer an objective view despite having served in the military myself (and in civilian riot situations) Given the heated nature of most encounters where the imperitives of the investigation meet the necessity of transparency, one would hope cooler heads prevail, and quickly. I hope so but a cover up will only makes things worse. But, as I've noted before, every now and then an incident pops up and deliberate, assertive effort must be directed toward protecting our hard-won civil liberties, regardless of whether one is from Canada, the States or Europe. Why just there? Anywhere in the world. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Because I think these are the countries that most take their rights for granted... Take Care, Dudley |
#63
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Another Camera Seized
Chris H wrote:
In message , Chris H writes In message , Martin Brown writes Chris H wrote: The police may want to secure the evidence chain in case there are important images on the camera. True. On the other hand they may want them so there are no awkward photos in the press. In the case in this thread they had shot at some one. Yes. OTOH he seemed to have been a real threat from the other descriptions of the events leading up to the shooting. Digital images are much easier to fake than classical film so there is good reason for them to want to keep them closely watched until they are sure there is no important evidence on them. That is one reason there are others for the more cynical. And right on cue from the UK counter terrorist NG http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7988828.stm A man who died during the G20 protest was pushed to the ground by a police officer, video footage has shown. Ian Tomlinson, 47, collapsed from a heart attack during protests outside the Bank of England last Wednesday. Newsagent Mr Tomlinson, who was not protesting, is seen receiving a two-handed push from a police officer. And according to the slow motion replay a whack from a baton to the back of his legs too. UK policing by consent seems to be disappearing. They should be had for that unprovoked attack on an innocent bystander trying to make his way home. The video of this assault should obtain justice for him with any luck. A New York fund manager recorded the footage, saying he came forward with the video because Mr Tomlinson's family "were not getting any answers". No wonder the police don't like to be filmed! I think todays MFU tops that. The UK's police anti-terrorism supremo photographed carrying a secret document into Downing Street with names and other key threat details clearly legible. It is hard to imagine how we are made safer by having someone as careless as that in charge. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7990719.stm It isn't the first time a visitor to No 10 has had documents captured by a long lens. And it is one thing for a hapless minister to be caught out, but quite another for a supposedly highly trained anti-terrorist officer. Clueless is as clueless does. Accident prone is the kindest thing that any of the major political parties has said about him so far. Regards, Martin Brown |
#64
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Another Camera Seized
"Martin Brown" wrote I think todays MFU tops that. The UK's police anti-terrorism supremo photographed carrying a secret document into Downing Street with names and other key threat details clearly legible. It is hard to imagine how we are made safer by having someone as careless as that in charge. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7990719.stm Silly man, no bonus for you this year. OK, hands up all those that followed the link, saved the photo to disk and tried to manipulate it in an editor to read what was on the paper! Damn near works, too.. And how about this line from the article: "Students said they heard police shouting at two suspects as they were advised over the library loudspeaker to stay away from the windows for their own safety." Amazing the building didn't tilt! Paul |
#65
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Another Camera Seized
"Chris H" wrote I like the WiFi idea because you can transmit the pictures back to a laptop a friend has set up in a cafe. That will be difficult to spot as most cafes are full of people using laptops... at least in UK cites they are. Which also raises the question of mobile phone cameras - increasingly used by bystanders to snap 'happening' news. While the picture would exist on the phone SIM card, it could also be transmitted anywhere in the world before the instrument could be seized. Technology is making damage control harder to achieve... Paul |
#66
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Another Camera Seized
Paul Bartram wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote I think todays MFU tops that. The UK's police anti-terrorism supremo photographed carrying a secret document into Downing Street with names and other key threat details clearly legible. It is hard to imagine how we are made safer by having someone as careless as that in charge. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7990719.stm Silly man, no bonus for you this year. Very possibly no job either. It will be extremely annoying if they have arrested the alleged terrorist cell too soon to get a conviction. OK, hands up all those that followed the link, saved the photo to disk and tried to manipulate it in an editor to read what was on the paper! Damn near works, too.. Not enough resolution in that small single frame image. But given a full sequence of the doctored images I reckon I might be able to reconstruct it from the TV broadcast video stream given enough processing power and time. However, there is a D-notice in force. Regards, Martin Brown |
#67
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Another Camera Seized
"J. Clarke" wrote in message ... Dudley Hanks wrote: "Paul Bartram" paul.bartram AT OR NEAR lizzy.com.au wrote in message ... "Dudley Hanks" wrote Or, maybe it'll take a photog with the guts to say, "Keep your hands off my camera!" and, do a bit of cell time to prove the point. In all cases like these, the first question that comes to my mind is, why seize the camera? Or are cops too dumb to know that the images are on a tiny card, not the camera itself? Some cameras have inbuilt memory storage. The cops have the right to ask for evidence. Cops in plural rather than just the individual that's an important point. If you're a reasonable person then you should be willing to provide it, after all, somebody is _dead_ and the person responsible needs to be brought to justice. Suppose it's the cop that caused or did the actual murder. That being the case, anything that you can do to help the investigation is worthwhile. Don't get so caught up in defending your rights that you lose sight of the big picture. yes in that lots of peole should have acces to the evidence picture in this case. If you absolutely positively don't want to give up control of the images, then tell the cop that you're perfectly willing to let the department make a copy as long as you don't give up control, and if he's not sure of the procedure for that then ask him to call his supervisor. They should either be able to make a copy on scene or at the station. Porbbaly the best idea, do the laws of copyright change if you've photographed an illegal act taking place. Remember also that they have a responsibility to maintain the chain of evidence--that means that the images have to be under their control from the time they became aware of them on--that means that if they don't have the camera in their possession then they need to have you with the camera in their possession until the copies are made. Seems reasonable, in that case that should insist that you hand the images over to any individual obviously that's not a law just a precaution. As a working journalist you also have a responsibility to maintain control of _your_ chain of evidence--put it in those terms and any cop should be able to understand the problem. Also note that what the cops can and cannot seize depends on the applicable statutes which vary from state to state and outside the US from country to country. There'as an interesting situation in London during G20 where a 48 year-old man was pushed to the ground by a policeman and has since died. What I can't understand is where all the CCTV footage is considering how many cameras are about. Now just suppose you had a picture(s) of this incident would you have to had over the images to the policeman or should you wait until there is an authoritive figure on the scene who'll distribute those picture(s) to everyone that wants/needs them. |
#68
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Another Camera Seized
"TonyCooper" wrote in message news On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 12:33:19 -0400, jls wrote: I have to say that I am distressed at how little value some people are placing on our liberties and rights. I am also distressed at how little value some people place on common decency and the feelings of others. Much is discussed in this forum on the rights of the photographer, Must be something related to the name of the group but little is discussed on the wrongs of the photographer. Not the professional photographer who is employed to capture news, So they can do no wrong ? but the citizen who carries a camera and feels he has the right to capture anything he sees. For me that would depend on why I shouldn;t have the right to photograph what I see. Drive by a bad wreck sometime and you will see some bozo with a camera photographing the scene and the people in it. Here in the UK I often see billboards from the police asking for witnesses to an accident. If I'm a victim in an accident, I don't want that guy photographing me lying there in a pool of blood. Whether I'm in a public or private place, I don't feel he has a right to gawk and photograph. If he isn't there to help, he should get the hell away. I guess I agree, but if the pictures can be used as evidence that you weren't responsible for the accident or they can be used as proof to back up an insurance claim, would it be OK if it were a professional photographer but not an amateur one. Same with a slip-and-fall accident. It's one thing to take a photograph in order to provide the victim with some documentation of the conditions, but quite different if the photograph goes up on Flickr as a "funny" image of someone ass-over-teakettle in an awkward and embarassing position. Even worse if they send it off and make some money out of it. I like "street photography" and I do it. But, if anyone sees me taking a picture of them and objects to me doing so, I'll delete the image in a heartbeat. I don't feel I have a right not to. Normally I'd agree but if that person was breaking and entering, or doing something else that's I thought they shouldn't I would disagree. |
#69
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Another Camera Seized
In message grklcd$g8b$1@qmul, whisky-dave
writes There'as an interesting situation in London during G20 where a 48 year-old man was pushed to the ground by a policeman and has since died. What I can't understand is where all the CCTV footage is considering how many cameras are about. Now that crossed my mind. As the event took place at an intersection in an open area there must have been several cameras not to mention building Security CCTV and other people who captured it. Now just suppose you had a picture(s) of this incident would you have to had over the images to the policeman or should you wait until there is an authoritive figure on the scene who'll distribute those picture(s) to everyone that wants/needs them. When you say "everyone who wants/need them" does that include competing newspapers, TV and magazines etc... No. You back up the photos to the lap top or storage device. Many press people have the laptop in the car/bag or a mobile storage device and only give the pictures ot the Police for a receipt. As evidence Many people trip, fall or are pushed (either by accident or intent by their own side or the ether side) many times in a demonstration so not all incidents are photographed and no one at the time realised the significance of the incident. He got up and walked off. BTW what is significant the, to my mind, somewhat stunned reaction of the officers colleagues. I think they thought he had overstepped the mark. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ |
#70
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Another Camera Seized
In message , Martin Brown
writes However, there is a D-notice in force. Really? Do you know that for a fact? I thought that system had long since got to be replaced by something less formal. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ |
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