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Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint



 
 
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  #171  
Old September 14th 17, 04:20 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital
Your Name[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 102
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

On 2017-09-13 22:42:53 +0000, Andre G. Isaak said:
In article ,
Your Name wrote:

I did a very quick search and didn't turn up anything saying it was a
known bug, let alone any mention of why or how to fix it in Sierra.
There were a few people complaining about particular fonts in older
verions of Mac OS X, where apparently a fix can be to delete certain
caches and plist file, and then repair permissions and reboot ... of
course Repair Permissions is no longer an option in Sierra.

It's very weird. :-\


It is discussed he

http://www.jklstudios.com/misc/osxfonts.html

This document, however, predates the problem with DIN. Search that page
for 'Athelas' for a description of the problem. It seems to affect
different fonts with each new release.


Thanks for the link.

There's actually a few fonts that don't show up in other apps, but I
don't have time right now to work out which are proper Office-only ones
and which are these apparently "faulty" system fonts.

.... and it's still very weird. :-(

  #172  
Old September 14th 17, 05:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.mac.apps,rec.photo.digital
Chaya Eve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

Here is a summary of the solution.

I bought a few road sign blanks for this project where I found that most
are aluminum, painted white, often but not always pre-punched, and anywhere
from 0.100" of an inch thick to 0.060" thick.

I found the 0.100" sign couldn't be easily bent by hand whereas the 0.060"
signs could be bent by hand relatively easily but seemed sturdy enough for
withstanding weather purposes.

This link covers the details of the font legal and compatibility issues:
- https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec....A/FCyiDz1TAQAJ

Where the summary results are that roadsign fonts are tested under
real-world conditions for specific things such as halation, night-time and
speed legibility (especially when tight interstices are involved),
cutout-integrity, removal of tiny notches in joints of the letterforms,
negative spacing compactness (affecting legibility of signs in
negative-contrast color orientations), common symbols, etc., all resulting
in an increase in accuracy, viewing distance, and reaction time.

The official USA roadsign font is "Highway Gothic"

Another previously-official US roadsign font is "Clearview"
A common USA Gothic-look-alike freely distributable font is "Roadgeek"

In Europe, and specifically in Germany, the road sign font is "DIN 1451"
The Mac ships native with a DIN-1451-look-alike font named "DIN".
The latest Windows ships with a DIN-look-alike font named "Bahnschrift"

Windows MS Office can embed the entire font set which works for Windows.
Mac MS Office can˘t embed fonts & can˘t read embedded fonts.
The Mac has an issue seeing the DIN font (see the Usenet url for details).
Sierra
- https://support.apple.com/HT206872
Maverick:
- https://support.apple.com/HT201375
- http://www.jklstudios.com/misc/osxfonts.html

Highway Gothic fonts are available at cost he
- https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/pixymbols/highway-gothic/
Highway Gothic seems to be available for free he
- http://www.dafont.com/highway-gothic.font
Clearview is only available at cost (AFAIK):
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview_(typeface)
Roadgeek is available online for free in many places, for example he
- http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

If you know more about the fonts than the summary above, please respond so
that we can learn from what you've experienced.
  #173  
Old September 14th 17, 10:10 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.mac.apps,rec.photo.digital
Chaya Eve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 18:17:13 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

For the UK, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_(typeface)


Thanks for improving our combined tribal knowledge on road sign fonts.
Here's an updated summary which includes your input!

Road sign fonts are tested under real-world conditions for specific things
such as halation, night-time and speed legibility (especially when tight
interstices are involved), cutout-integrity, removal of tiny notches in
joints of the letterforms, negative spacing compactness (affecting
legibility of signs in negative-contrast color orientations), common
symbols, etc., all resulting in an increase in accuracy, viewing distance,
and reaction time.

According to this Usenet thread:
*https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec....A/FCyiDz1TAQAJ
The official USA roadsign font is (still)"Highway Gothic"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Gothic
Another recently used but then deprecatedUS roadsign font is "Clearview"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview_(typeface)
A common USA Gothic-look-alike freely distributable font is "Roadgeek"
http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

In Germany (& much of Europe) the road sign font is "DIN 1451"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_1451
The Mac ships native with a DIN-1451-look-alike font named "DIN".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...uded_with_OS_X
The latest Windows ships with a DIN-look-alike font named "Bahnschrift"
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...uild-16273-pc/
In the UK, the commonly used road sign font is named "Transport"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_(typeface)

Windows MS Office can embed the entire font set which works for Windows.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...-in-powerpoint
Mac MS Office can˘t embed fonts & can˘t read embedded fonts.
http://www.jklstudios.com/misc/osxfonts.html
The Mac has an issue seeing the DIN font (see the Usenet url for details).
Sierra https://support.apple.com/HT206872
Mavericks: https://support.apple.com/HT201375

Highway Gothic fonts are available at cost he
https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/pixymbols/highway-gothic/
Highway Gothic seems to be available for free he
http://www.dafont.com/highway-gothic.font
Clearview is only available at cost (AFAIK):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview_(typeface)
Roadgeek is available online for free in many places, for example he
http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

Please let us know if you know of more related road sign font information
  #174  
Old September 15th 17, 05:09 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.mac.apps,rec.photo.digital
Andre G. Isaak
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

In article ,
Chaya Eve wrote:

Here is a summary of the solution.

I bought a few road sign blanks for this project where I found that most
are aluminum, painted white, often but not always pre-punched, and anywhere
from 0.100" of an inch thick to 0.060" thick.

I found the 0.100" sign couldn't be easily bent by hand whereas the 0.060"
signs could be bent by hand relatively easily but seemed sturdy enough for
withstanding weather purposes.

This link covers the details of the font legal and compatibility issues:
- https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec....A/FCyiDz1TAQAJ

Where the summary results are that roadsign fonts are tested under
real-world conditions for specific things such as halation, night-time and
speed legibility (especially when tight interstices are involved),
cutout-integrity, removal of tiny notches in joints of the letterforms,
negative spacing compactness (affecting legibility of signs in
negative-contrast color orientations), common symbols, etc., all resulting
in an increase in accuracy, viewing distance, and reaction time.

The official USA roadsign font is "Highway Gothic"


The official USA roadsign font is FHWA Series Gothic which isn't
commercially available. Highway Gothic is a name given to various
knock-offs.

Another previously-official US roadsign font is "Clearview"
A common USA Gothic-look-alike freely distributable font is "Roadgeek"

In Europe, and specifically in Germany, the road sign font is "DIN 1451"
The Mac ships native with a DIN-1451-look-alike font named "DIN".


That's not a "look-alike". It's the actual font.

The latest Windows ships with a DIN-look-alike font named "Bahnschrift"


Windows MS Office can embed the entire font set which works for Windows.


Your earlier post suggested that Bahnschrift wasn't yet included but
would be in future. If that is correct then whether it can be embedded
remains to be seen. PowerPoint on windows can embed TrueType fonts, but
only if the flag in the OS/2 table allows it. It sounds like your
project requires editable embedding which is less commonly allowed than
read-only embedding.

Mac MS Office can¢t embed fonts & can¢t read embedded fonts.
The Mac has an issue seeing the DIN font (see the Usenet url for details).
Sierra
- https://support.apple.com/HT206872
Maverick:
- https://support.apple.com/HT201375
- http://www.jklstudios.com/misc/osxfonts.html

Highway Gothic fonts are available at cost he
- https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/pixymbols/highway-gothic/
Highway Gothic seems to be available for free he
- http://www.dafont.com/highway-gothic.font
Clearview is only available at cost (AFAIK):
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview_(typeface)
Roadgeek is available online for free in many places, for example he
- http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

If you know more about the fonts than the summary above, please respond so
that we can learn from what you've experienced.


--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service.
  #175  
Old September 15th 17, 12:11 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.mac.apps,rec.photo.digital
Chaya Eve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 22:09:55 -0600, "Andre G. Isaak"
wrote:

Your earlier post suggested that Bahnschrift wasn't yet included but
would be in future. If that is correct then whether it can be embedded
remains to be seen. PowerPoint on windows can embed TrueType fonts, but
only if the flag in the OS/2 table allows it. It sounds like your
project requires editable embedding which is less commonly allowed than
read-only embedding.


Wow. Thanks for those accurate clarifications!

I don't know how to test the embedding on the latest Windows 10 because I
don't have it - but it's great information for the many Windows experts
here that in the "Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16273", the inclusion of
Bahnschrift DIN-1451-look-alike fonts may or may not be embeddable.

I have included your clarification suggestions in the reference page of the
PowerPoint document for the school, where I reflect those improvements
below as a summary of tribal knowledge for someone reading this in the
future via Dejagoogle links.

Road sign fonts are tested under real-world conditions for specific things
such as halation, night-time and speed legibility (especially when tight
interstices are involved), cutout-integrity, removal of tiny notches in
joints of the letterforms, negative spacing compactness (affecting
legibility of signs in negative-contrast color orientations), common
symbols, etc., all resulting in an increase in accuracy, viewing distance,
and reaction time.

According to this Usenet thread:
.. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec....A/FCyiDz1TAQAJ
The official USA roadsign font is FHWA Series Gothic which isn't
commercially available.
.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Gothic
Another recently used but then deprecated US road sign font is ˇClearview˘
.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview_(typeface)
A common USA Gothic-look-alike freely distributable font is ˇRoadgeek˘
.. http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

In Germany (& parts of Continental Europe), they use ˇDIN 1451˘
.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_1451
The Mac ships native with that actual font, simply namedˇDIN˘˘
.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...uded_with_OS_X
The latest Win10 ships with a DIN-look-alike font named ˇBahnschrift˘
(which may or may not be embeddable)
.. https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...uild-16273-pc/
In the UK, the commonly used road sign font is named ˇTransport˘
.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_(typeface)

Windows MS Office can embed the entire font set which works for Windows.
.. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...-in-powerpoint
Mac MS Office can not embed fonts & also can not read embedded fonts.
.. http://www.jklstudios.com/misc/osxfonts.html
The Mac also has an issue seeing the DIN font (see the Usenet url for
complete details).
.. Sierra https://support.apple.com/HT206872
.. Mavericks: https://support.apple.com/HT201375

Highway Gothic look-alike fonts are available at cost he
.. https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/pixymbols/highway-gothic/
Highway Gothic look-alike fonts seem to be available for free he
.. http://www.dafont.com/highway-gothic.font
Clearview is only available at cost (AFAIK):
.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview_(typeface)
Roadgeek is available online for free in many places, for example he
.. http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

Any and all clarifications and improvements are welcome to help everyone.
  #176  
Old September 15th 17, 12:14 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.mac.apps,rec.photo.digital
Chaya Eve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 11:11:31 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:

The latest Win10 ships with a DIN-look-alike font named ˇBahnschrift˘


Why do single and double quotes in PowerPoint always show up as funny
characters in Usenet?
  #177  
Old September 15th 17, 12:21 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.mac.apps,rec.photo.digital
Chaya Eve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 22:09:55 -0600, "Andre G. Isaak"
wrote:

Your earlier post suggested that Bahnschrift wasn't yet included but
would be in future. If that is correct then whether it can be embedded
remains to be seen. PowerPoint on windows can embed TrueType fonts, but
only if the flag in the OS/2 table allows it. It sounds like your
project requires editable embedding which is less commonly allowed than
read-only embedding.


I googled to see if the embedding is mentioned but it's not.

I did find a tutorial for switching the default font in Windows 10 from
"segoe" to "bahnschrift", over he
https://mspoweruser.com/use-microsof...eators-update/

That tutorial for changing the default Windows font says "this tip works
for modifying any and all types of fonts on Windows" so the Bahnshrift font
seems to be no different (in that respect anyway) from any other font on
Windows.

As a description of why Bahnschrift is supposedly a useful font on Windows,
they gave this description of "weights" which I didn't quite understand the
benefit of...

"Bahnschrift supports a smooth spectrum of weights from Light to Bold, as
you can see in the above image. In this image, each letter is a slightly
different weight than its neighbours. All these weights are ˇ§duplexedˇ¨ ˇV
meaning they do not change in width when you change weight. You can switch
from Light to Bold without changing the layout at all."

--
PS: Why do cut-and-paste quotes gain funny characters on the quotes?
  #178  
Old September 15th 17, 12:26 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.mac.apps,rec.photo.digital
Chaya Eve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 11:21:51 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:

I did find a tutorial for switching the default font in Windows 10 from
"segoe" to "bahnschrift", over he
https://mspoweruser.com/use-microsof...eators-update/


While Microsoft claims the advantage of Bahnschrift as a system-wide font
is that "Bahnschrift supports a smooth spectrum of weights from Light to
Bold without changing the layout", it looks like it still has bugs.

Did anyone notice the colon at the bottom right time 4:31 is mungled?
https://mspoweruser.com/wp-content/u...ahnschrift.png

Why is this colon mungled in that screenshot just as all my doublequote and
singlequote copies get mungled in this Usenet post?
  #179  
Old September 15th 17, 02:36 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.mac.apps,rec.photo.digital
Paul[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 64
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in customroad signs in PowerPoint

Chaya Eve wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 11:11:31 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:

The latest Win10 ships with a DIN-look-alike font named ¡Bahnschrift¢


Why do single and double quotes in PowerPoint always show up as funny
characters in Usenet?


(U+201C) left
(U+201D) right
(U+0022) straight

electric quote mode (smart quotes), a desktop publishing thing...

"Change curly quotes to straight quotes and vice versa"

https://support.office.com/en-us/art...d-0ec511a8fb8f

"As you type text, some Microsoft Office programs automatically
change straight quotation marks ( ' or " ) to curly quotation marks
(also known as "smart quotes" or typographer's quotes). You can turn
on or off this feature.
"

"Powerpoint
1. On the File tab, click Options.
2. Click Proofing, and then click AutoCorrect Options.
3. In the AutoCorrect dialog box, click the AutoFormat As You Type tab.
4. Under Replace as you type, select or clear the "Straight quotes"
with “smart quotes” check box.
5. Click OK.
"

After you correct that, then both your tools are following a
"non-typographers" convention :-)

Just a guess,
Paul
  #180  
Old September 15th 17, 05:20 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.mac.apps,rec.photo.digital
Chaya Eve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 09:36:41 -0400, Paul wrote:

"Change curly quotes to straight quotes and vice versa"

https://support.office.com/en-us/art...d-0ec511a8fb8f

"As you type text, some Microsoft Office programs automatically
change straight quotation marks ( ' or " ) to curly quotation marks
(also known as "smart quotes" or typographer's quotes). You can turn
on or off this feature.
"

"Powerpoint
1. On the File tab, click Options.
2. Click Proofing, and then click AutoCorrect Options.
3. In the AutoCorrect dialog box, click the AutoFormat As You Type tab.
4. Under Replace as you type, select or clear the "Straight quotes"
with ´smart quotesˇ check box.
5. Click OK.
"

After you correct that, then both your tools are following a
"non-typographers" convention :-)


Who knew! Not me.

I just changed that PowerPoint option as described above.

Hopefully now when I cut and paste quotes from PowerPoint to Usenet, they
will not turn into cent signs.
 




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