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#21
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"The Spectre" wrote in message . .. Hi again, I realize digital is the reason but that digital SLR these guys are lusting over will be yesterdays news in 6 months just like computers and other consumer electronics. No matter what 35mm film is still a much better medium than digital for "quality" images right now. Straight out of the camera film may be higher quality but the "digital darkroom" wipes that advantage out easily. I couldn't imagine going back to film, scanners, etc. IMHO, the end product of my DSLR is higher quality than film. |
#22
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Same here. My plan is to make the digital jump this spring, either the Digital Rebel or the 10D. I plan to still keep my EOS5 and Yashicamat, though I may sell my Rebel 2000. I still see myself wanting to shoot film from time to time, though I'm sure it will be less and less. A good strategy. One reason for keeping a film body is wide-angle. I had to buy an 15-30 mm lens for my 10D to enjoy the same wide-angle perspective that I used to get with 24 mm and film. But it's absolutely amazing to mount that lens on the film EOS body and get the real 15 mm super-wide angle perspective. Not a focal length for everyday use, but IMO it's a sufficient reason to keep a film body (Rebel 2000 in my case). |
#23
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Shankar Bhattacharyya writes:
I do expect that my current stash of bodies, including two F2 bodies, one N-80 and a Rolleicord Vb TLR, represent the end of my film days. The next body is likely to be what Nikon introduces as competition for the Digital Rebel, or some such thing. Perhaps when D-100 functionality gets well below $1000. That's called a D70 and should be out in a few months. |
#24
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"The Spectre" writes:
I realize digital is the reason but that digital SLR these guys are lusting over will be yesterdays news in 6 months just like computers and other consumer electronics. No matter what 35mm film is still a much better medium than digital for "quality" images right now. Sure digital will certainly catch up soon enough but it IS NOT there yet so why the mass panic to dump 35mm and go with what are really 1st generation digital SLRs? I'd say DSLR's ones are 3rd generation or so. 1st generation = Nikon/Fuji E1/D1, 2nd gen = Nikon D1, 3rd generation = current stuff. Also, what makes a $1000.00 nikkor lens any less useful with a digital camera than a film one? How can those lenses fetch such a low price used yet be sold as new at same prices as ever? If it's a recent AF lens it's probably holding up better than older or MF lenses. However, I think SLR stuff in general may be taking a beating because most of it is being replaced by non-SLR digicams. Finally, a camera like a Nikons F series are built to take punishment and withstand the rigors of professional use that I just do not believe current digital cameras poses. As far as I can tell, the D1/D2H/EOS-1D/etc. are just as tough as the F series. Not to mention they are works of ark in their own right. So how can an F5 which is a state of the art, professional camera designed from the ground up to be the best and sold in limited numbers as "world class" sell for less than a mass produced DSLR that will be surpasses in 6 months by the latest and greatest digital wonder. That's basically what the F5 is, a digital wonder with a film train. The F2 and maybe even F3 are another story, but those are ancient history. |
#25
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Don Coon wrote: "The Spectre" wrote in message .. . WTF, is going on with the price of used 35mm equipment? I can not believe that Nikon F5's, F4's, n90s's etc.. and associated Nikon f2.8 lenses and accessories are selling for so little. I mean come on I saw an F5 with MF-28 sell for $725.00!!! And that was after the seller reduced it twice. These are still current production $1500 - $2000 cameras. Also, f2.8 glass is many times half of new price. Makes me wish I had an extra grand laying around. I think you know the answer; only someone living under a rock doesn't. However, I will say that used Canon EOS lenses are *NOT* selling anywhere near half price. The demand for EOS lenses is so high that "out-of-stock" is common at many etail sites and prices on Ebay are high. Sometimes higher than the buyer could get the lens for new. Example: I just sold a Canon EF 75-300 USM IS without the box or warranty card for $425 + shipping on Ebay; you can buy it new from B&H for $399 after rebate. At the local camera fare, held every third Sunday, F4s' are selling for about $800 in good to very good condition and less accordingly for those that show signs brassing or other wear. Nick |
#26
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#27
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Yep, film is a has-been. NOW, all of you Leica shooters, I'll be glad to
dispose of any of those crappy obsolete M2's through M7's. But seriously, one of the most balanced essays on digital vs. film (with links, etc) is this one, by Ken Rockwell: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/filmdig.htm Until they make decent digital cameras so that they are upgradeable, I will maintain that all digital cameras are disposable. I use digital gear, but it isn't an either/or situation. Currently digital is very transient/temporary, while I use Rolleiflex TLRs that are older than I am. Magazines still want 35mm and MF trannies, but only newspapers will touch my digital images. And daily work is a place where digital excels. So it appears still to be apples and oranges in comparison. -- Lloyd Online photo portfolio: http://www.geocities.com/lloydetc/photoart01.html "Nollite illegitimus contarere vos" "Clanger" wrote in message ... "The Spectre" wrote in message .. . WTF, is going on with the price of used 35mm equipment? I can not believe that Nikon F5's, F4's, n90s's etc.. and associated Nikon f2.8 lenses and accessories are selling for so little. I mean come on I saw an F5 with MF-28 sell for $725.00!!! And that was after the seller reduced it twice. These are still current production $1500 - $2000 cameras. Also, f2.8 glass is many times half of new price. Makes me wish I had an extra grand laying around. DIGITALLLLLLLLLL that's what. |
#28
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"L Schultz" writes:
But seriously, one of the most balanced essays on digital vs. film (with links, etc) is this one, by Ken Rockwell: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/filmdig.htm I'm sorry, but that article is a ridiculous rant. He compares a shot from a nameless digicam to one from a 4x5 view camera that can only be used on a tripod. He says the best way to get digital images is from scanned film, but not with a cheap consumer scanner like a $10,000 Imacon. To get a really fair comparison between film and digital, according to him, you're supposed to use a $50,000 Heidelberg scanner operated by someone with years of training. Sheesh. Until they make decent digital cameras so that they are upgradeable, I will maintain that all digital cameras are disposable. True, but to many professionals, all cameras are disposable. I use digital gear, but it isn't an either/or situation. Currently digital is very transient/temporary, while I use Rolleiflex TLRs that are older than I am. Magazines still want 35mm and MF trannies, but only newspapers will touch my digital images. And daily work is a place where digital excels. So it appears still to be apples and oranges in comparison. Nah, magazines are printing lots of digital images too. It's obvious to me that film will always be with us, but will become more and more of a specialty medium. |
#29
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http://www.forbes.com/... ...kpinnacor_ii.html?partner=my_yahoo&referrer= Interesting article. Yes, Kodak, Fuji, Ilford all continue to make money on film, and will for years. But film is indeed dying. It is very telling that Kodak has abandoned APS format as it became clear that it really WASN'T going to pull people back to film cameras from digital, and they are scaling back on film R&D. It is also important to note that both Nikon and Canon report that digital now represents over 80% of their photography unit sales, and growing. Nikon will release the N85 film body (AF sensor upgrade to the N80), but that's their only new film camera, and predictions are that that's it - no more. They have already dropped compact 35mm camera development AND they have stopped development of film scanners. Canon has a broader market base, so (to use Thom Hogan's metaphor) they aren't going to scuttle that particular boat like Nikon is, they are just going to drill a hole in the bottom of it and let it sink quietly. Additionally, look at the other film camera companies. Minolta (now merged with Konica to avoid bankruptcy) is on the ropes and moving into digital, getting out of film. Same with Pentax - I bet we'll see a whole slug of dSLRs from Pentax beyond the *ist (which is barely on the radar screen) or they'll be dead too. Olympus has survived on digital, having deep-sixed their film SLR line, the excellent OM series, a few years ago (very smart). A contributing factor to Nikon's development of the N85 is not so much its use as a film camera but as a body platform for the next round of $1500 dSLR's such as the Fuji S3 (or upgraded S2) and possibly/probably the Nikon D200 (D100 replacement). It appeared that Nikon was letting the F6 program slide because of the death of film, but rumors are that they have resurrected it and will be introducing it within the year as a pro body with the choice of multiple digital backs as well as a 35mm film back for the holdouts, if there are any left by the time it's introduced. At least the success of such a camera doesn't hinge on the future of an obsolete technology. Clever. It should be clear to anyone that follows technology issues that digital EVERYTHING has a tendency to replace its analog counterparts. The only reason digital photography hasn't yet dealt the final death blow to film is that film still generally has the edge on dynamic range, and slightly (MF anyway) better resolution for large enlargements. As sensor technology improves , that film advantage is rapidly disappearing at a rate predicted by Moore's Law and it's only a matter of a few years before film becomes the province of a few hobbyists and some hold-out chemical curmudgeons. Film, film cameras, and lenses aren't ever going to get any better than they are now, but digital sensors obviously will. Film is not dead. Yet. But it is definitely coughing up blood. HMc |
#30
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"Howard McCollister" writes:
http://www.forbes.com/... ...kpinnacor_ii.html?partner=my_yahoo&referrer= Interesting article. Yes, Kodak, Fuji, Ilford all continue to make money on film, and will for years. But film is indeed dying. That url didn't make it, can you post the complete url? Thanks. It appeared that Nikon was letting the F6 program slide because of the death of film, but rumors are that they have resurrected it and will be introducing it within the year as a pro body with the choice of multiple digital backs as well as a 35mm film back for the holdouts, if there are any left by the time it's introduced. That sounds extremely unlikely to me. Chances are they just scaled back the development. It will probably be more like an F100 upgraded with the D2H's AF system. Someone said used F5's are going in the $725 range. Anyone know what a used F100 is going for? I somehow think the F100 might hold its value better than an F5. What good is an F5 these days? Its main advantages over the F100 revolve around its faster shooting speeds and greater durability, but people shooting at such high speeds and in such volume were probably the first to switch to digital. |
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