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#1
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spot metering help needed
I am an advanced amateur, and I want to really understand spot metering
practically. I've read the "Handheld Metering Guide" and I don't doubt that the authors can meter well, but they have shown they can't instruct well. Information is neither too advanced or too simple, not enough detail and little more than what a sales brochure would give, might be helpful in deciding which type of meter to buy but lacking otherwise and if you really want to know how i feel about the book : ) Has anyone read a really good book on metering with great practical tips? Where to point the spot etc. I know that sounds like a simple question but lets say you are in a meadow in autumn, what element is likely to most closely resemble 18% gray.Is that the best approcah to find a 18% grey in the scene and meter that? Or do I determine what will be grey if I can't control developing and printing. Does the Zone system have use for the digital or roll film photographer? |
#2
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spot metering help needed
On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 19:39:19 -0500, w wrote:
I know that sounds like a simple question but lets say you are in a meadow in autumn, what element is likely to most closely resemble 18% gray.Is that the best approcah to find a 18% grey in the scene and meter that? Using a spot meter is an art. The photographer has to decide on what to meter and what to meter depends on the final result that the photographer is aiming for. So the question really is... when looking at that meadow, which part do YOU want to be a midtone and what parts do you want to be highlights and shadows. Does the Zone system apply to roll film? Yes, but mostly because knowing what the Zone system is helps the photographer better compose his images. -- JC |
#3
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spot metering help needed
w wrote in message ...
I am an advanced amateur, and I want to really understand spot metering practically. What you need to understand is how to achieve correct exposure. The meter is only a tool to that end. What puzzles you? |
#4
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spot metering help needed
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#5
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spot metering help needed
I am an advanced amateur, and I want to really understand spot metering practically. I've read the "Handheld Metering Guide" and I don't doubt that the authors can meter well, but they have shown they can't instruct well. Information is neither too advanced or too simple, not enough detail and little more than what a sales brochure would give, might be helpful in deciding which type of meter to buy but lacking otherwise and if you really want to know how i feel about the book : ) Has anyone read a really good book on metering with great practical tips? Where to point the spot etc. I know that sounds like a simple question but lets say you are in a meadow in autumn, what element is likely to most closely resemble 18% gray.Is that the best approcah to find a 18% grey in the scene and meter that? Or do I determine what will be grey if I can't control developing and printing. Does the Zone system have use for the digital or roll film photographer? a spot meter is really specialized, you have to know your system and do things with CONSISTENCY. A gray card can be bought at most camera stores. its really 50% but it reflects 18% whatever you point the meter at, it suggests an exposure that will render that medium gray, that is assuming you can done exposures tests to determine what your actual working ISO is, after all your camera shutter and lens could vary from what is stamped on the barrel, your darkroom methods could vary, or your labs. So with tests, first going from one end to the other to find your minimum exposure to get a maximum black, that determines YOUR ISO with that bod and lens, that film and processing, that lighting. zone system is a method of 'placing' your highlight and shadow values by manipulating your exposure and development times. You have something in the sun and you want detail in both the bright and shadow side, you want your highlights to be a step down from pure white and your shadow a step or two up from black, you know you can over expose a bit to build up detail in the shadow, and you then under developed to keep the highlights from going too far. with roll film, you meter the shadow areas that you would like some detail in and open up two stops, then in printing you choose a contrast that will keep both brights and darks in range. or you can just meter the brights and shadows to see how far apart they are to decide if you need fill or a reflector. |
#6
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spot metering help needed
whodunitinc wrote in message . ..
On 4 Dec 2003 13:42:33 -0800, (Michael Scarpitti) wrote: w wrote in message ... I am an advanced amateur, and I want to really understand spot metering practically. What you need to understand is how to achieve correct exposure. The meter is only a tool to that end. What puzzles you? Yes Mike, that's the whole motivation of the post. I know the meter is a tool to aid in obtaining the perfect exposure for me, it is afterall entirely subjective. What I am looking for are some shortcuts to many years of trial and error. I mean, thank god Ansel Adams wrote about his methods and discoveries as it has helped many of us improve our ability to make shots that are pleasing without having to go through the years of study and discovery that he did. Adams is irrelevant to this discussion. Have you read or are you aware of an expert in metering, that is other than dear Ansel, who has written a succinct and illustrative book about practical spot metering. A book that gives really useful tips as to what one might point that 2 degree spot at. The problem is not 'what to point the meter at', but 'why do I need to use this tool'? You're looking at the whole thing backwards. Simply by bracketing exposures you can cover all reasonably likely exposures anyway. All you need to know is that the meter reads whatever is pointed at as 18% grey. That's all there is to it. If you point it at a dark-coloured area, the reading you get is going to reproduce that area NOT as 'dark grey' but as medium grey UNLESS you alter the exposure. If you point it a white snowbank, the reading you get is going to reproduce that area NOT as 'white' but as medium grey UNLESS you alter the exposure. The main uses for spot meters a 1. In metering inaccessible areas that are considerable distances away (performers on a stage, for instance) especially when the illumination levels are greatly different from the immediate surroundings and quite localized (a performmer's face in a spotlight surrounded by blackness, for instance). 2. In measuring the diffrential between the brightest and darkest areas of a scene, to verify whether the range can be captured in a single exposure. This is most critical with color transparency films. 3. In determining lighting ratios in when incident metering is impractical or inconvenient, as in industrial photography of large machinery. In such cases, the meter still reads as though the matter being metered is 18% grey, so even the reading of performer in the spotlight must be adjusted based on the estimated reflectivity of the performer's costume or face. Hardly ever can the meter reading of a spot meter be used without adjustment based on reflectivity. |
#7
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spot metering help needed
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#9
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spot metering help needed
On 6 Dec 2003 17:24:16 -0800, (Michael
Scarpitti) wrote: J C wrote in message . .. On 5 Dec 2003 14:44:25 -0800, (Michael Scarpitti) wrote: The problem is not 'what to point the meter at', but 'why do I need to use this tool'? You're looking at the whole thing backwards. Simply by bracketing exposures you can cover all reasonably likely exposures anyway. Now THAT and all that you posted below it, I fully agree with. Its a good explanation. Its also the reason that after a while the poster will find that using a spot meter with a 35mm will be unnecessary. Because after a while he will begin to understand the relationships in a scene just by visualizing it in his mind, and bracketing to make sure. Precisely. Bracketing, to be sure, is sometimes an option, but it seems moke like admitting I am not sure of whats happening, so to be safe, lets shoot 3 or 5 shots and that way I've covered all the bases. Sure film can be considered cheap but gosh if you bracket lots you'll be using minimal 3 times more than you might normally use and if you are doing panoramas consisting of 6 frames, bracketing becomes extremely difficult to manage in post. As regard spot metering not applicable to 35mm photography, I work in motion picture and I've yet to meet a DP who doesn't use a spotmeter. They are reecording on 35mm film and the image size is even smaller than a 35 mm still. Clearly bracketing is not an option in motion pictures and my point is I that I know the handheld meter if used well can help considerably more than a built in average meter, or center weighted and if you want to be in control and be cognitive of the process , matrix metering is best not used. Sure there are times, particular in candids and sports where deliberate metering would cause you to loose the shot and matrix meter is preferred, but for posed shots or landscape, where you have the luxury of metering a scene in detail, why not use it and know exactly why you shot looks the way it does as opposed to hoping one of the frames will be right.. Yes I am well capable of producing 'acceptable shots 90% of the time, I want 100% and to know how to use the meter effectively. Adam's book "The Negative" has wonderful instruction, but as you state he used large format and his lessons are geared primarily for that but that's not to say that many of his methods are not applicable to all of photography including digital. You seem to think that a spotmeter is superfluous and it may well be for you. I on the other hand believe that it is capable of helping me meter with far more precision than my camera's built in meters and with a good understand, to be achieve through good instruction coupled with experience I will get the satifaction of making the exposures I want, not haphazrdly through bracketing. My question remains this; can someone recommend a good book on practical spot metering? I am not seeking opinions on the validity of spotmetering. |
#10
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spot metering help needed
Exactly.... If you know your craft andthe equipment there is no need to
bracket In article , whodunitinc writes: Bracketing, to be sure, is sometimes an option, but it seems moke like admitting I am not sure of whats happening, so to be safe, lets shoot 3 or 5 shots and that way I've covered all the bases. Sure film can be considered cheap but gosh if you bracket lots you'll be using minimal 3 times more than you might normally use and if you are doing panoramas consisting of 6 frames, bracketing becomes extremely difficult to manage in post. As regard spot metering not applicable to 35mm photography, I work in motion picture and I've yet to meet a DP who doesn't use a spotmeter. They are reecording on 35mm film and the image size is even smaller than a 35 mm still. Clearly bracketing is not an option in motion pictures and my point is I that I know the handheld meter if used well can help considerably more than a built in average meter Mike Babcock Mike's Photo |
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