EFKE film - suitable filters

Yes, these films, as I said, are only slightly less red-sensitive than
Plus-X or Tri-X.


Peter Irwin wrote:
seog wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
I would appreciate advice on filters to use with this
"ortho-panchromatic" film.

"Orthopanchromatic" means "correct panchromatic" rather than
a cross between orthochromatic and panchromatic. Many years
ago there used to be many "hyper-panchromatic" films which
were oversensitive to red. Kodak calls orthopanchromatic
films "type B" and hyperpanchromatic films "type C." The Efke
films are a bit less sensitive to red than most "type B" films.
(Kodak's "type A" films were the old pre-1931 panchromatic
films which were strongly oversensitive to blue.)

If you want the ortho look try a blue filter with regular film.

A blue filter (such as a #47) will give you a colour-blind look
rather than an ortho look. Ortho films are quite sensitive
to green and yellow so that grass comes out a reasonably
light shade on ortho films instead of quite dark as it appears
on colour-blind materials. A #44A minus-red filter would
give you the ortho look, but it is a hard filter to find
in anything other than a gel.

Maco PO-100 is a good choice for a fine grained ortho film
is you really want that look. I've used it and it is nice for
what it is, but most of the time I'm not too keen on reds
appearing really dark. The dark reds can sometimes give a nice
effect on brick buildings.

Old-fashioned means different things to different people.
1930s 35mm film was generally panchromatic, but rather
grainy except for the really slow films. Most plates for
large format were color-blind (blue sensitive only) though
both ortho and panchromatic plates were reasonably common in the
early twentieth century. The most common old rollfilms
were orthochromatic, though the early Kodak NC films
were only slightly sensitive to green. Panchromatic
rollfilm was readily obtainable in the 1930s, but wasn't
as popular as the highly orthochromatic films like Verichrome
which had plenty of sensitivity to green, but none to red.

I think it would help if the OP specified what kind of
look he was going for, a reference to well known photographs
or the work of a particular photographer might be helpful.

Peter.
--

G- Blank wrote:

You need and old fashioned one. What exactly did "they suggest".


OK, I'm no expert and have never used the stuff. I do however have a copy
of 'The Dictionary of Photography', 17th edition, third impression 1952.
The dust jacket proclaims it has been in print over 60 years.

Orthochromatic film is covered under 'colour-sensative emulsions'. It
discussed 'modern orthochromatic emulsions' so it might be the sort of
reference book you need.

If you are using Orthochromatic film of type 'B', which has a dip in
sensativity at the blue/green part of its response it suggests a 'yellow
filter of quite moderate depth'.

Further, for type C orthochromatic film which does not have the dip in the
blue green sensativity but has a reduced blue sensativity it suggests a
'still paler yellow filter'.

Note that the aim with the above is to obtain a realistic representation.
It also notes the lack of red sensativity.

Pete

--
http://www.petezilla.co.uk

These films are panchromatic, not orthochromatic.



Peter Chant wrote:
G- Blank wrote:

You need and old fashioned one. What exactly did "they suggest".


OK, I'm no expert and have never used the stuff. I do however have a copy
of 'The Dictionary of Photography', 17th edition, third impression 1952.
The dust jacket proclaims it has been in print over 60 years.

Orthochromatic film is covered under 'colour-sensative emulsions'. It
discussed 'modern orthochromatic emulsions' so it might be the sort of
reference book you need.

If you are using Orthochromatic film of type 'B', which has a dip in
sensativity at the blue/green part of its response it suggests a 'yellow
filter of quite moderate depth'.

Further, for type C orthochromatic film which does not have the dip in the
blue green sensativity but has a reduced blue sensativity it suggests a
'still paler yellow filter'.

Note that the aim with the above is to obtain a realistic representation.
It also notes the lack of red sensativity.

Pete

--
http://www.petezilla.co.uk

UC wrote:

These films are panchromatic, not orthochromatic.


OK, but is does not make much difference:

It states that ortho-panchromatic film, also known as recte-panchromatic
film is adjusted to give without a filter the closes possible approach to
correct production of colours in monochrome. It then notes in most cases
there is an excessive sensitivity to blue and therefore a yellow filter of
moderate depth should be used.


--
http://www.petezilla.co.uk

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:50:37 GMT, "Nicholas
O. Lindan" wrote:

....
the mood of the pictu

Heavy, black, grainy for the Comecon look;
Sparkling and sunny for Arts & Crafts;
Smokey and wet for Viennese moderne;
Black and wet for Weimar Berlin;
Heavy, black and not so grainy for Bill Brandt's London.
....


January 28, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,

Oh, thank you!
--le
(hey, what about Karsh's Ottawa??)


but it won't turn Santa Cruz into the Balkans.

You're on such a roll -- please continue with
this one...

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________
--

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:50:37 GMT, "Nicholas O. Lindan"
wrote:

Taking the picture on Croatian film may add to the mood
of the photographer and make it easier to 'get in the groove'
but it won't turn Santa Cruz into the Balkans.

Yeah but one good rumble of mother Nature's belly and it might make
the Balkans look like paradise.

==
John - Photographer & Webmaster
www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net

A #44A minus-red filter would
give you the ortho look, but it is a hard filter to find
in anything other than a gel.

Maco PO-100 is a good choice for a fine grained ortho film
is you really want that look. I've used it and it is nice for
what it is, but most of the time I'm not too keen on reds
appearing really dark. The dark reds can sometimes give a nice
effect on brick buildings.

Old-fashioned means different things to different people.
1930s 35mm film was generally panchromatic, but rather
grainy except for the really slow films. Most plates for
large format were color-blind (blue sensitive only) though
both ortho and panchromatic plates were reasonably common in the
early twentieth century. The most common old rollfilms
were orthochromatic, though the early Kodak NC films
were only slightly sensitive to green. Panchromatic
rollfilm was readily obtainable in the 1930s, but wasn't
as popular as the highly orthochromatic films like Verichrome
which had plenty of sensitivity to green, but none to red.

I think it would help if the OP specified what kind of
look he was going for, a reference to well known photographs
or the work of a particular photographer might be helpful.

Peter.
--





Thanks for all the advice received.

I'm not entirely certain about the exact type of image I'd like to end
up with (this will be my first trip to Eastern Europe) but I'd like to
take some pictures that look as if they might have been taken in the
1920/30s. I'd like to include some street scenes with people in the
historic parts of Prague, Vienna and Budapest, (though I suspect it
will be difficult to come across anybody who isn't dressed like a
typical Westerner, these days).

I think Viennese Moderne sounds closer to what I'd like to achieve; I'm
not keen to take depressing pictures which are reminiscent of the
Communist era). I can't think of a particular photographer that I'd
like to emulate but perhaps Andre Kertesz comes closest and I'd like to
achieve the tonality of Frantisek Drtikol and Anton Josef Trcka's
photos but I don't know whether it has anything to do with the type of
film they were shooting.

By the way, I haven't been able to find what the filter factor would be
for a cyan 44a.

Thanks again - Phil Lamerton

On 29 Jan 2006 08:35:07 -0800, wrote:

Thanks for all the advice received.

I'm not entirely certain about the exact type of image I'd like to end
up with (this will be my first trip to Eastern Europe) but I'd like to
take some pictures that look as if they might have been taken in the
1920/30s. I'd like to include some street scenes with people in the
historic parts of Prague, Vienna and Budapest, (though I suspect it
will be difficult to come across anybody who isn't dressed like a
typical Westerner, these days).

I think Viennese Moderne sounds closer to what I'd like to achieve; I'm
not keen to take depressing pictures which are reminiscent of the
Communist era). I can't think of a particular photographer that I'd
like to emulate but perhaps Andre Kertesz comes closest and I'd like to
achieve the tonality of Frantisek Drtikol and Anton Josef Trcka's
photos but I don't know whether it has anything to do with the type of
film they were shooting.

By the way, I haven't been able to find what the filter factor would be
for a cyan 44a.

Thanks again - Phil Lamerton

Anton Josef Trcka printed in platinum and therefore used large format
cameras. Frantisek Drtikol shot in studio as well and problably used
large format as well. Most of his images look to be contact prints. I
would recommend Ilford FP4+ and D-23. No filtraction is necessary.
Just print the images to a nice, warm paper such as Multigrade FB
Warmtone or perhaps Bergger CB-Art Warm Tone.

==
John - Photographer & Webmaster
www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net

wrote:

--





Thanks for all the advice received.

I'm not entirely certain about the exact type of image I'd like to end
up with (this will be my first trip to Eastern Europe) but I'd like to
take some pictures that look as if they might have been taken in the
1920/30s. I'd like to include some street scenes with people in the
historic parts of Prague, Vienna and Budapest, (though I suspect it
will be difficult to come across anybody who isn't dressed like a
typical Westerner, these days).

I think Viennese Moderne sounds closer to what I'd like to achieve; I'm
not keen to take depressing pictures which are reminiscent of the
Communist era). I can't think of a particular photographer that I'd
like to emulate but perhaps Andre Kertesz comes closest and I'd like to
achieve the tonality of Frantisek Drtikol and Anton Josef Trcka's
photos but I don't know whether it has anything to do with the type of
film they were shooting.

Not really. Just use good film and strive to get the best results you
can.


By the way, I haven't been able to find what the filter factor would be
for a cyan 44a.

Thanks again - Phil Lamerton

wrote:

I'm not entirely certain about the exact type of image I'd like to end
up with (this will be my first trip to Eastern Europe) but I'd like to
take some pictures that look as if they might have been taken in the
1920/30s. I'd like to include some street scenes with people in the
historic parts of Prague, Vienna and Budapest, (though I suspect it
will be difficult to come across anybody who isn't dressed like a
typical Westerner, these days).

Panchromatic film will be correct for the 1930s stuff.
Some of Andre Kertesz's earliest works looks like
it was taken on plates which were mostly sensitive
to blue, but the ones from the 1930s look panchromatic
to me.

For many people the most familiar images of the
1930s are from old B&W movies, and it is interesting
to note that 1930s B&W movies were all on panchro
film. The transition to sound films in the late
1920s required hissy Klieg lights to be replaced
by tungsten lights which were rich in red and
required panchromatic film to make efficient use
of the light. I'm pretty certain that the rapid
rise in popularity of panchromatic film for still
cameras had a lot to do with people seeing improved
colour rendering in the cinema.

By the way, I haven't been able to find what the filter factor would be
for a cyan 44a.

Filter factor for the #44A minus-red should be
3 for daylight and 5 for tungsten for most
panchromatic films.

A minus-red filter or ortho film has the somewhat
counter-intuitive effect of drawing attention
to red. Faces will often look rougher, which is
sometimes desired in male portraiture. Red bricks
will come out darker than one might expect and this
may show patterns in brickwork more clearly than
colour film would. Red in flags, uniforms and other
clothing may be reproduced as almost black and show
up rather better than if red were reproduced as
a light shade of gray.

But, unless you know that you want a contrast
filter to show reds as dark, you are best off
using panchromatic film with either no filter,
a yellow #8(K2) or a panchromatic green #11 (X1)
correction filter. Strong contrast filters can
sometimes have a different effect than the one
you were planning on. If you are on vacation, you
won't be able to easily retake the picture, so if
you do use a filter, take another picture without
the filter at the same time.

Peter.
--