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Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting Hart Island mass burials with his drone
Here is an article on the matter:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited- drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's forbidden to use drones. -- Alfred Molon Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at https://groups.io/g/myolympus https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site |
#2
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Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone
On 4/17/2020 2:51 PM, Alfred Molon wrote:
Here is an article on the matter: https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited- drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's forbidden to use drones. "He was cited for violating NYC Administrative Code § 10–126, which prohibits the takeoff and landing of drones within New York City (NYC)." Steinmetz wrote in response: "‘I’m not trying to be an advocate, but my encounter with the NYPD [on Tuesday] was not about any safety or privacy considerations that I assume the law was designed for." 1) Perhaps Steinmetz doesn't realize that this response serves no other purpose than advocacy (free press, open distribution of information, etc.). Or he's lying. 2) Laws regarding drones are not arbitrary and open to user definitions. He violated the law, and lost his drone. Boo Hoo. Ironically, had he been able to fly his paraglider over the scene to take the shots, he probably would not have been cited at all, providing that he didn't violate other airspace restrictions. I am really tired of folks that think they can do whatever they want with their drones. -- best regards, Neil |
#3
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Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone
On 2020-04-17 14:51, Alfred Molon wrote:
Here is an article on the matter: https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited- drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone Hart Island is a park belonging to NYC and is within the boundaries of NYC. New York City—Administrative Code § 10-126(c) // 2017 This administrative code makes it unlawful for any person avigating an aircraft (including drones) to take off or land, except in an emergency, at any place within the limits of the city other than places of landing designated by the department of transportation or the port of New York authority. To avigate is defined in the code as “To pilot, steer, direct, fly, or manage an aircraft in or through the air, whether controlled from the ground or otherwise.” New York City—City Restriction // 2017 This city restriction declares that drones are illegal to fly in New York City, and advises anyone who sees a drone being flown to call 911. As it happens I'll be flying both my drones tomorrow... legally. |
#4
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Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone
On 2020-04-17 17:04, Neil wrote:
On 4/17/2020 2:51 PM, Alfred Molon wrote: Here is an article on the matter: https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited- drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's forbidden to use drones. "He was cited for violating NYC Administrative Code § 10–126, which prohibits the takeoff and landing of drones within New York City (NYC)." Steinmetz wrote in response: "‘I’m not trying to be an advocate, but my encounter with the NYPD [on Tuesday] was not about any safety or privacy considerations that I assume the law was designed for." 1) Perhaps Steinmetz doesn't realize that this response serves no other purpose than advocacy (free press, open distribution of information, etc.). Or he's lying. 2) Laws regarding drones are not arbitrary and open to user definitions. He violated the law, and lost his drone. Boo Hoo. Ironically, had he been able to fly his paraglider over the scene to take the shots, he probably would not have been cited at all, providing that he didn't violate other airspace restrictions. I am really tired of folks that think they can do whatever they want with their drones. Most drone laws are over the top arbitrary. Canada is much worse than the US in that respect. (I'm licensed in Canada and registered in the US). The photographer only violated the NYC restriction which is largely (like 99.99%) unenforced as long as operators comply with the FAA rules (which are subject to interpretation depending on the sort of operation you're doing...). |
#5
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Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone
On 4/17/2020 6:45 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-04-17 17:04, Neil wrote: On 4/17/2020 2:51 PM, Alfred Molon wrote: Here is an article on the matter: https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited- drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's forbidden to use drones. "He was cited for violating NYC Administrative Code § 10–126, which prohibits the takeoff and landing of drones within New York City (NYC)." Steinmetz wrote in response: "‘I’m not trying to be an advocate, but my encounter with the NYPD [on Tuesday] was not about any safety or privacy considerations that I assume the law was designed for." 1) Perhaps Steinmetz doesn't realize that this response serves no other purpose than advocacy (free press, open distribution of information, etc.). Or he's lying. 2) Laws regarding drones are not arbitrary and open to user definitions. He violated the law, and lost his drone. Boo Hoo. Ironically, had he been able to fly his paraglider over the scene to take the shots, he probably would not have been cited at all, providing that he didn't violate other airspace restrictions. I am really tired of folks that think they can do whatever they want with their drones. Most drone laws are over the top arbitrary.* Canada is much worse than the US in that respect.* (I'm licensed in Canada and registered in the US). The photographer only violated the NYC restriction which is largely (like 99.99%) unenforced as long as operators comply with the FAA rules (which are subject to interpretation depending on the sort of operation you're doing...). OK, so it's clear which side of the fence you're standing on. ;-D As a private pilot, I'm standing on the other side of that fence. When I see drone users violating the laws, I think the punishment is totally inadequate. As in too far short of a 9mm in their heads. ;-) -- best regards, Neil |
#6
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Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone
On 2020-04-18 05:43, Neil wrote:
On 4/17/2020 6:45 PM, Alan Browne wrote: On 2020-04-17 17:04, Neil wrote: On 4/17/2020 2:51 PM, Alfred Molon wrote: Here is an article on the matter: https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited- drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's forbidden to use drones. "He was cited for violating NYC Administrative Code § 10–126, which prohibits the takeoff and landing of drones within New York City (NYC)." Steinmetz wrote in response: "‘I’m not trying to be an advocate, but my encounter with the NYPD [on Tuesday] was not about any safety or privacy considerations that I assume the law was designed for." 1) Perhaps Steinmetz doesn't realize that this response serves no other purpose than advocacy (free press, open distribution of information, etc.). Or he's lying. 2) Laws regarding drones are not arbitrary and open to user definitions. He violated the law, and lost his drone. Boo Hoo. Ironically, had he been able to fly his paraglider over the scene to take the shots, he probably would not have been cited at all, providing that he didn't violate other airspace restrictions. I am really tired of folks that think they can do whatever they want with their drones. Most drone laws are over the top arbitrary.* Canada is much worse than the US in that respect.* (I'm licensed in Canada and registered in the US). The photographer only violated the NYC restriction which is largely (like 99.99%) unenforced as long as operators comply with the FAA rules (which are subject to interpretation depending on the sort of operation you're doing...). OK, so it's clear which side of the fence you're standing on. ;-D As a private pilot, I'm standing on the other side of that fence. When I see drone users violating the laws, I think the punishment is totally inadequate. As in too far short of a 9mm in their heads.* ;-) Then you can see on a chart that Hart island is class E airspace from the surface to 500 ASL. All that remains then is the NYC rule which is very outdated and applied arbitrarily as in this case. As a commercially licensed pilot and flight instructor, I can tell you for a fact that drone laws in most countries are over the top dumb in most locales. The USA is actually fairly liberal (for private use) compared to most countries. To be fair, a lot (but far from all) drone users are over the top dumb as well - that doesn't merit what you advocate, however. |
#7
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Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone
On 4/18/2020 1:39 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-04-18 05:43, Neil wrote: On 4/17/2020 6:45 PM, Alan Browne wrote: On 2020-04-17 17:04, Neil wrote: On 4/17/2020 2:51 PM, Alfred Molon wrote: Here is an article on the matter: https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited- drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's forbidden to use drones. "He was cited for violating NYC Administrative Code § 10–126, which prohibits the takeoff and landing of drones within New York City (NYC)." Steinmetz wrote in response: "‘I’m not trying to be an advocate, but my encounter with the NYPD [on Tuesday] was not about any safety or privacy considerations that I assume the law was designed for." 1) Perhaps Steinmetz doesn't realize that this response serves no other purpose than advocacy (free press, open distribution of information, etc.). Or he's lying. 2) Laws regarding drones are not arbitrary and open to user definitions. He violated the law, and lost his drone. Boo Hoo. Ironically, had he been able to fly his paraglider over the scene to take the shots, he probably would not have been cited at all, providing that he didn't violate other airspace restrictions. I am really tired of folks that think they can do whatever they want with their drones. Most drone laws are over the top arbitrary.* Canada is much worse than the US in that respect.* (I'm licensed in Canada and registered in the US). The photographer only violated the NYC restriction which is largely (like 99.99%) unenforced as long as operators comply with the FAA rules (which are subject to interpretation depending on the sort of operation you're doing...). OK, so it's clear which side of the fence you're standing on. ;-D As a private pilot, I'm standing on the other side of that fence. When I see drone users violating the laws, I think the punishment is totally inadequate. As in too far short of a 9mm in their heads.* ;-) Then you can see on a chart that Hart island is class E airspace from the surface to 500 ASL.* All that remains then is the NYC rule which is very outdated and applied arbitrarily as in this case. As a commercially licensed pilot and flight instructor, I can tell you for a fact that drone laws in most countries are over the top dumb in most locales.* The USA is actually fairly liberal (for private use) compared to most countries. To be fair, a lot (but far from all) drone users are over the top dumb as well - that doesn't merit what you advocate, however. Many laws and rules in this country are outdated and dumb, but they are still the law and the rules, not subject to arbitrary interpretation by individuals. To be clear, I'm an advocate for safety and people not stupidly putting others' lives at risk. But, what it takes to achieve that with drones is more than what is being done at this point. A few serious consequences for the violators instead of their victims just might speed up the process. -- best regards, Neil |
#8
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Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone
On 2020-04-18 14:31, Neil wrote:
On 4/18/2020 1:39 PM, Alan Browne wrote: On 2020-04-18 05:43, Neil wrote: On 4/17/2020 6:45 PM, Alan Browne wrote: On 2020-04-17 17:04, Neil wrote: On 4/17/2020 2:51 PM, Alfred Molon wrote: Here is an article on the matter: https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited- drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's forbidden to use drones. "He was cited for violating NYC Administrative Code § 10–126, which prohibits the takeoff and landing of drones within New York City (NYC)." Steinmetz wrote in response: "‘I’m not trying to be an advocate, but my encounter with the NYPD [on Tuesday] was not about any safety or privacy considerations that I assume the law was designed for." 1) Perhaps Steinmetz doesn't realize that this response serves no other purpose than advocacy (free press, open distribution of information, etc.). Or he's lying. 2) Laws regarding drones are not arbitrary and open to user definitions. He violated the law, and lost his drone. Boo Hoo. Ironically, had he been able to fly his paraglider over the scene to take the shots, he probably would not have been cited at all, providing that he didn't violate other airspace restrictions. I am really tired of folks that think they can do whatever they want with their drones. Most drone laws are over the top arbitrary.* Canada is much worse than the US in that respect.* (I'm licensed in Canada and registered in the US). The photographer only violated the NYC restriction which is largely (like 99.99%) unenforced as long as operators comply with the FAA rules (which are subject to interpretation depending on the sort of operation you're doing...). OK, so it's clear which side of the fence you're standing on. ;-D As a private pilot, I'm standing on the other side of that fence. When I see drone users violating the laws, I think the punishment is totally inadequate. As in too far short of a 9mm in their heads.* ;-) Then you can see on a chart that Hart island is class E airspace from the surface to 500 ASL.* All that remains then is the NYC rule which is very outdated and applied arbitrarily as in this case. As a commercially licensed pilot and flight instructor, I can tell you for a fact that drone laws in most countries are over the top dumb in most locales.* The USA is actually fairly liberal (for private use) compared to most countries. To be fair, a lot (but far from all) drone users are over the top dumb as well - that doesn't merit what you advocate, however. Many laws and rules in this country are outdated and dumb, but they are still the law and the rules, not subject to arbitrary interpretation by individuals. The city interprets them arbitrarily by not invoking them almost all of the time and in this case was selective. To be clear, I'm an advocate for safety and people not stupidly putting others' lives at risk. But, what it takes to achieve that with drones is more than what is being done at this point. A few serious consequences for the violators instead of their victims just might speed up the process. I don't see how the photographer mentioned put anyone at risk. He may have offended people the dignity of burial, but that is that. |
#9
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Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone
On 4/18/2020 2:48 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-04-18 14:31, Neil wrote: On 4/18/2020 1:39 PM, Alan Browne wrote: On 2020-04-18 05:43, Neil wrote: On 4/17/2020 6:45 PM, Alan Browne wrote: On 2020-04-17 17:04, Neil wrote: On 4/17/2020 2:51 PM, Alfred Molon wrote: Here is an article on the matter: https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited- drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's forbidden to use drones. "He was cited for violating NYC Administrative Code § 10–126, which prohibits the takeoff and landing of drones within New York City (NYC)." Steinmetz wrote in response: "‘I’m not trying to be an advocate, but my encounter with the NYPD [on Tuesday] was not about any safety or privacy considerations that I assume the law was designed for." 1) Perhaps Steinmetz doesn't realize that this response serves no other purpose than advocacy (free press, open distribution of information, etc.). Or he's lying. 2) Laws regarding drones are not arbitrary and open to user definitions. He violated the law, and lost his drone. Boo Hoo. Ironically, had he been able to fly his paraglider over the scene to take the shots, he probably would not have been cited at all, providing that he didn't violate other airspace restrictions. I am really tired of folks that think they can do whatever they want with their drones. Most drone laws are over the top arbitrary.* Canada is much worse than the US in that respect.* (I'm licensed in Canada and registered in the US). The photographer only violated the NYC restriction which is largely (like 99.99%) unenforced as long as operators comply with the FAA rules (which are subject to interpretation depending on the sort of operation you're doing...). OK, so it's clear which side of the fence you're standing on. ;-D As a private pilot, I'm standing on the other side of that fence. When I see drone users violating the laws, I think the punishment is totally inadequate. As in too far short of a 9mm in their heads.* ;-) Then you can see on a chart that Hart island is class E airspace from the surface to 500 ASL.* All that remains then is the NYC rule which is very outdated and applied arbitrarily as in this case. As a commercially licensed pilot and flight instructor, I can tell you for a fact that drone laws in most countries are over the top dumb in most locales.* The USA is actually fairly liberal (for private use) compared to most countries. To be fair, a lot (but far from all) drone users are over the top dumb as well - that doesn't merit what you advocate, however. Many laws and rules in this country are outdated and dumb, but they are still the law and the rules, not subject to arbitrary interpretation by individuals. The city interprets them arbitrarily by not invoking them almost all of the time and in this case was selective. To be clear, I'm an advocate for safety and people not stupidly putting others' lives at risk. But, what it takes to achieve that with drones is more than what is being done at this point. A few serious consequences for the violators instead of their victims just might speed up the process. I don't see how the photographer mentioned put anyone at risk.* He may have offended people the dignity of burial, but that is that. It has nothing at all to do with whether Steinmetz put anyone at risk. Again, in your view a photographer is within their rights to violate rules based on their opinion about them. In mine, they have no such rights; it's as simple as that. And, as I pointed out in my first reply, had he used his paraglider instead of his drone, there probably would not have been any consequences (if your charts are current...mine are not). -- best regards, Neil |
#10
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Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone
On 17/04/2020 23:42, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-04-17 14:51, Alfred Molon wrote: Here is an article on the matter: https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited- drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone Hart Island is a park belonging to NYC and is within the boundaries of NYC. New York City—Administrative Code § 10-126(c) // 2017 This administrative code makes it unlawful for any person avigating an aircraft (including drones) to take off or land, except in an emergency, at any place within the limits of the city other than places of landing designated by the department of transportation or the port of New York authority.* To avigate is defined in the code as “To pilot, steer, direct, fly, or manage an aircraft in or through the air, whether controlled from the ground or otherwise.” New York City—City Restriction // 2017 This city restriction declares that drones are illegal to fly in New York City, and advises anyone who sees a drone being flown to call 911. As it happens I'll be flying both my drones tomorrow... legally. And to be fair, New York has more reason than most places to be nervous about unidentifiable overflights. |
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