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#11
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Bill, this is the mode I have been practicing with after reading the text in
the manual. I have not had much of an opportunity to try it on birds in flight because of the weather, but I have tried focusing on objects like a tree trunk, than while half depressing the shutter release, move the camera to another object at a greater or lesser distance and the focus almost instantly locks onto the latter. That is while using the center focus spot. I agree with you, this seems to be the most versatile mode. -- Bob "Nature Photography by Bob Moul" http://www.pbase.com/rcm1840 "Bill Hilton" wrote in message ... Generally they recommend One Shot for stationary subjects and AI for moving subjects since AI will track something and hold focus while OS locks to one focus point and stops focussing. Dunno what AI Focus does, sorry ... I found this description of AI Focus on the net ... "There is the usual One Shot as well as AI Servo tracking with predictive autofocus. ... In addition there is AI Focus mode which locks focus in Single Shot mode but then automatically switches to AI Servo with tracking if the subject starts moving while the shutter release is partially depressed." This sounds like a very useful mode to me (all I have is the technologically deprived 1D Mark II and the ancient 1Ds so I don't have this mode |
#12
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So, I wonder if the 20D is more like the 10D or 1DII in its AI
tracking ability. So to Bob, if you find the birds out of focus with AI, try single shot. Just remember to lift your finger completely off the shutter button between shots. I could frame at almost 3 per second with this method once I learned it. Also, use only one sensor as with multiple sensors, the camera can get confused and focus on the wrong thing from what you want. So what you are essentially doing Roger, is re-focusing before each frame. Am I following you there? That may work on the 10D and 20D but I found that on the DRebel the focus was so slow and each time I lifted my finger off the shutter release and depressed again the camera would start searching again. By the time it found the bird(?) valuable time was lost and consequently I would get very few frames until the moment was lost. Next time out I will try your method first chance I get. After using the 300D for a year and 15,000 shots later, I am finding the 20D to be a whole new ball game. For one thing, at 5 fps, you better have a large CF. There is really no comparison between the two. Some may disagree with me there. BTW, an excellent photo of the GREG. I will return to your web page later when I have more time to browse. -- Bob "Nature Photography by Bob Moul" http://www.pbase.com/rcm1840 |
#13
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So, I wonder if the 20D is more like the 10D or 1DII in its AI
tracking ability. So to Bob, if you find the birds out of focus with AI, try single shot. Just remember to lift your finger completely off the shutter button between shots. I could frame at almost 3 per second with this method once I learned it. Also, use only one sensor as with multiple sensors, the camera can get confused and focus on the wrong thing from what you want. So what you are essentially doing Roger, is re-focusing before each frame. Am I following you there? That may work on the 10D and 20D but I found that on the DRebel the focus was so slow and each time I lifted my finger off the shutter release and depressed again the camera would start searching again. By the time it found the bird(?) valuable time was lost and consequently I would get very few frames until the moment was lost. Next time out I will try your method first chance I get. After using the 300D for a year and 15,000 shots later, I am finding the 20D to be a whole new ball game. For one thing, at 5 fps, you better have a large CF. There is really no comparison between the two. Some may disagree with me there. BTW, an excellent photo of the GREG. I will return to your web page later when I have more time to browse. -- Bob "Nature Photography by Bob Moul" http://www.pbase.com/rcm1840 |
#14
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So, I wonder if the 20D is more like the 10D or 1DII in its AI
tracking ability. So to Bob, if you find the birds out of focus with AI, try single shot. Just remember to lift your finger completely off the shutter button between shots. I could frame at almost 3 per second with this method once I learned it. Also, use only one sensor as with multiple sensors, the camera can get confused and focus on the wrong thing from what you want. So what you are essentially doing Roger, is re-focusing before each frame. Am I following you there? That may work on the 10D and 20D but I found that on the DRebel the focus was so slow and each time I lifted my finger off the shutter release and depressed again the camera would start searching again. By the time it found the bird(?) valuable time was lost and consequently I would get very few frames until the moment was lost. Next time out I will try your method first chance I get. After using the 300D for a year and 15,000 shots later, I am finding the 20D to be a whole new ball game. For one thing, at 5 fps, you better have a large CF. There is really no comparison between the two. Some may disagree with me there. BTW, an excellent photo of the GREG. I will return to your web page later when I have more time to browse. -- Bob "Nature Photography by Bob Moul" http://www.pbase.com/rcm1840 |
#15
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So, I wonder if the 20D is more like the 10D or 1DII in its AI
tracking ability. So to Bob, if you find the birds out of focus with AI, try single shot. Just remember to lift your finger completely off the shutter button between shots. I could frame at almost 3 per second with this method once I learned it. Also, use only one sensor as with multiple sensors, the camera can get confused and focus on the wrong thing from what you want. So what you are essentially doing Roger, is re-focusing before each frame. Am I following you there? That may work on the 10D and 20D but I found that on the DRebel the focus was so slow and each time I lifted my finger off the shutter release and depressed again the camera would start searching again. By the time it found the bird(?) valuable time was lost and consequently I would get very few frames until the moment was lost. Next time out I will try your method first chance I get. After using the 300D for a year and 15,000 shots later, I am finding the 20D to be a whole new ball game. For one thing, at 5 fps, you better have a large CF. There is really no comparison between the two. Some may disagree with me there. BTW, an excellent photo of the GREG. I will return to your web page later when I have more time to browse. -- Bob "Nature Photography by Bob Moul" http://www.pbase.com/rcm1840 |
#16
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Generally they recommend One Shot for stationary
subjects and AI for moving subjects From: "N8urePix" Bill, this is the mode I have been practicing with after reading the text in the manual. I have not had much of an opportunity to try it on birds in flight because of the weather Bob, here's a link to a Canon publication by senior tech guru Chuck Westfall describing the AF modes in detail ... it's written primarily for the 1D class cameras so the custom function and 45 AF point info isn't applicable to the 20D but most of it is useful for 20D owners too. For example I learned you're supposed to run USM at 300/.3/0 to clean up after the anti-aliasing filter and that the focus lock and recompose trick isn't recommended inside of 15 ft or for portraits ... good reading. http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/EOS_Digital.pdf (a 35 pg 1 MB pdf so takes a while to download ... I recommend saving it and reading it at your leisure) There is something specifically for the 20D on this page ... http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/ Back to the AF modes and flight shots ... here are some sample images taken with various AF modes which illustrate the problems ... http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5220.jpg ... hand held with a 400 mm, the AF mode isn't important here since there was a narrow orange patch of clouds in the sky and I just wanted to freeze the birds while they were flying in it. Hard part was getting a group of birds that weren't "touching" each other, and getting a fast enough shutter speed, I think I went to iso 800 and then ran Neat Image to clean up the noise artifacts. Either AI or OS would work here. http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5314.jpg ... bird is just taxiing for take-off, I'm in AI mode with the sensor on the neck ... so long as I keep the sensor on the neck the head is in focus but if the wing gets in the way it will shift focus to the wing, which is a problem. 500 mm f/4 on a Wimberly pivot head ... I got about 8 frames of this guy. http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4956.jpg ... different bird, same mode, same problems ... http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4897.jpg ... AI mode, in this one the wing got in the way so the head/eye isn't sharp but the wing is ... this is the kind of problem Roger avoids by using One Shot instead of AI ... so there are advantages and disadvantages to each mode. http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ff_feather.htm ... tough problem here, the people beside me with 10D's (two) and a Nikon 1Dx couldn't focus on these puffins but with the 1D Mark II I was able to catch them about 1/3 the time ... AI mode, 400 f/5.6 hand-held, 45 AF points ... small dark target flying fast in bad weather ... tough conditions for flight photography. http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...tti_flight.htm ... same trip but an easy bird to photograph in flight since it's white, flys slow and is 4x bigger than a puffin ... piece of cake, even the 10D gets this one almost every shot. One more, this one sitting ... http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ve_blossom.jpg ... if you use the center focus point for a shot like this you'll get the breast sharp but the eye isn't sharply focussed so I used one of the off-center focus points in One Shot mode to lock on the neck, which is about on the same plane as the eye. This is with the 500 f/4 and a 1.4x t/c on a Mark II and prints beautifully at 16x24" .... using the center point and recomposing would probably not work as well (see the Westfall publication above) at this close range ... the problem with using an off-center focus point is if the bird moves his head to the other side (for example) and you no longer have a good composition ... I tried this several times on a bear in Denali and when it worked it was perfect but the bear kept swinging his head side to side sniffing the air so sometimes my focus point was on the wrong side of the frame ... My advice is to learn all the modes, practice with them and hope that you're in the right one when something good happens Bill |
#17
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Generally they recommend One Shot for stationary
subjects and AI for moving subjects From: "N8urePix" Bill, this is the mode I have been practicing with after reading the text in the manual. I have not had much of an opportunity to try it on birds in flight because of the weather Bob, here's a link to a Canon publication by senior tech guru Chuck Westfall describing the AF modes in detail ... it's written primarily for the 1D class cameras so the custom function and 45 AF point info isn't applicable to the 20D but most of it is useful for 20D owners too. For example I learned you're supposed to run USM at 300/.3/0 to clean up after the anti-aliasing filter and that the focus lock and recompose trick isn't recommended inside of 15 ft or for portraits ... good reading. http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/EOS_Digital.pdf (a 35 pg 1 MB pdf so takes a while to download ... I recommend saving it and reading it at your leisure) There is something specifically for the 20D on this page ... http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/ Back to the AF modes and flight shots ... here are some sample images taken with various AF modes which illustrate the problems ... http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5220.jpg ... hand held with a 400 mm, the AF mode isn't important here since there was a narrow orange patch of clouds in the sky and I just wanted to freeze the birds while they were flying in it. Hard part was getting a group of birds that weren't "touching" each other, and getting a fast enough shutter speed, I think I went to iso 800 and then ran Neat Image to clean up the noise artifacts. Either AI or OS would work here. http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5314.jpg ... bird is just taxiing for take-off, I'm in AI mode with the sensor on the neck ... so long as I keep the sensor on the neck the head is in focus but if the wing gets in the way it will shift focus to the wing, which is a problem. 500 mm f/4 on a Wimberly pivot head ... I got about 8 frames of this guy. http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4956.jpg ... different bird, same mode, same problems ... http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4897.jpg ... AI mode, in this one the wing got in the way so the head/eye isn't sharp but the wing is ... this is the kind of problem Roger avoids by using One Shot instead of AI ... so there are advantages and disadvantages to each mode. http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ff_feather.htm ... tough problem here, the people beside me with 10D's (two) and a Nikon 1Dx couldn't focus on these puffins but with the 1D Mark II I was able to catch them about 1/3 the time ... AI mode, 400 f/5.6 hand-held, 45 AF points ... small dark target flying fast in bad weather ... tough conditions for flight photography. http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...tti_flight.htm ... same trip but an easy bird to photograph in flight since it's white, flys slow and is 4x bigger than a puffin ... piece of cake, even the 10D gets this one almost every shot. One more, this one sitting ... http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ve_blossom.jpg ... if you use the center focus point for a shot like this you'll get the breast sharp but the eye isn't sharply focussed so I used one of the off-center focus points in One Shot mode to lock on the neck, which is about on the same plane as the eye. This is with the 500 f/4 and a 1.4x t/c on a Mark II and prints beautifully at 16x24" .... using the center point and recomposing would probably not work as well (see the Westfall publication above) at this close range ... the problem with using an off-center focus point is if the bird moves his head to the other side (for example) and you no longer have a good composition ... I tried this several times on a bear in Denali and when it worked it was perfect but the bear kept swinging his head side to side sniffing the air so sometimes my focus point was on the wrong side of the frame ... My advice is to learn all the modes, practice with them and hope that you're in the right one when something good happens Bill |
#18
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Bill, Thanks for the urls. I will read them as time permits. Placed them in
my "favorites" folder so I can refer back to them later. Great pix of the cranes, I guess they are Sandhills, I have only ever seen a few of them in FL, but will never forget their "call". Really fine shots of the Puffin and Kittiwake too. I really appreciate your comments as well as Roger's. I am waiting for the weather to clear so I can head for the lake and put some of these tips into practice. -- Bob "Nature Photography by Bob Moul" http://www.pbase.com/rcm1840 "Bill Hilton" wrote in message ... Generally they recommend One Shot for stationary subjects and AI for moving subjects From: "N8urePix" Bill, this is the mode I have been practicing with after reading the text in the manual. I have not had much of an opportunity to try it on birds in flight because of the weather Bob, here's a link to a Canon publication by senior tech guru Chuck Westfall describing the AF modes in detail ... it's written primarily for the 1D class cameras so the custom function and 45 AF point info isn't applicable to the 20D but most of it is useful for 20D owners too. For example I learned you're supposed to run USM at 300/.3/0 to clean up after the anti-aliasing filter and that the focus lock and recompose trick isn't recommended inside of 15 ft or for portraits ... good reading. http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/EOS_Digital.pdf (a 35 pg 1 MB pdf so takes a while to download ... I recommend saving it and reading it at your leisure) There is something specifically for the 20D on this page ... http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/ Back to the AF modes and flight shots ... here are some sample images taken with various AF modes which illustrate the problems ... http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5220.jpg ... hand held with a 400 mm, the AF mode isn't important here since there was a narrow orange patch of clouds in the sky and I just wanted to freeze the birds while they were flying in it. Hard part was getting a group of birds that weren't "touching" each other, and getting a fast enough shutter speed, I think I went to iso 800 and then ran Neat Image to clean up the noise artifacts. Either AI or OS would work here. http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5314.jpg ... bird is just taxiing for take-off, I'm in AI mode with the sensor on the neck ... so long as I keep the sensor on the neck the head is in focus but if the wing gets in the way it will shift focus to the wing, which is a problem. 500 mm f/4 on a Wimberly pivot head ... I got about 8 frames of this guy. http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4956.jpg ... different bird, same mode, same problems ... http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4897.jpg ... AI mode, in this one the wing got in the way so the head/eye isn't sharp but the wing is ... this is the kind of problem Roger avoids by using One Shot instead of AI ... so there are advantages and disadvantages to each mode. http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ff_feather.htm ... tough problem here, the people beside me with 10D's (two) and a Nikon 1Dx couldn't focus on these puffins but with the 1D Mark II I was able to catch them about 1/3 the time ... AI mode, 400 f/5.6 hand-held, 45 AF points ... small dark target flying fast in bad weather ... tough conditions for flight photography. http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...tti_flight.htm ... same trip but an easy bird to photograph in flight since it's white, flys slow and is 4x bigger than a puffin ... piece of cake, even the 10D gets this one almost every shot. One more, this one sitting ... http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ve_blossom.jpg ... if you use the center focus point for a shot like this you'll get the breast sharp but the eye isn't sharply focussed so I used one of the off-center focus points in One Shot mode to lock on the neck, which is about on the same plane as the eye. This is with the 500 f/4 and a 1.4x t/c on a Mark II and prints beautifully at 16x24" ... using the center point and recomposing would probably not work as well (see the Westfall publication above) at this close range ... the problem with using an off-center focus point is if the bird moves his head to the other side (for example) and you no longer have a good composition ... I tried this several times on a bear in Denali and when it worked it was perfect but the bear kept swinging his head side to side sniffing the air so sometimes my focus point was on the wrong side of the frame ... My advice is to learn all the modes, practice with them and hope that you're in the right one when something good happens Bill |
#19
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Bill, Thanks for the urls. I will read them as time permits. Placed them in
my "favorites" folder so I can refer back to them later. Great pix of the cranes, I guess they are Sandhills, I have only ever seen a few of them in FL, but will never forget their "call". Really fine shots of the Puffin and Kittiwake too. I really appreciate your comments as well as Roger's. I am waiting for the weather to clear so I can head for the lake and put some of these tips into practice. -- Bob "Nature Photography by Bob Moul" http://www.pbase.com/rcm1840 "Bill Hilton" wrote in message ... Generally they recommend One Shot for stationary subjects and AI for moving subjects From: "N8urePix" Bill, this is the mode I have been practicing with after reading the text in the manual. I have not had much of an opportunity to try it on birds in flight because of the weather Bob, here's a link to a Canon publication by senior tech guru Chuck Westfall describing the AF modes in detail ... it's written primarily for the 1D class cameras so the custom function and 45 AF point info isn't applicable to the 20D but most of it is useful for 20D owners too. For example I learned you're supposed to run USM at 300/.3/0 to clean up after the anti-aliasing filter and that the focus lock and recompose trick isn't recommended inside of 15 ft or for portraits ... good reading. http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/EOS_Digital.pdf (a 35 pg 1 MB pdf so takes a while to download ... I recommend saving it and reading it at your leisure) There is something specifically for the 20D on this page ... http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/ Back to the AF modes and flight shots ... here are some sample images taken with various AF modes which illustrate the problems ... http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5220.jpg ... hand held with a 400 mm, the AF mode isn't important here since there was a narrow orange patch of clouds in the sky and I just wanted to freeze the birds while they were flying in it. Hard part was getting a group of birds that weren't "touching" each other, and getting a fast enough shutter speed, I think I went to iso 800 and then ran Neat Image to clean up the noise artifacts. Either AI or OS would work here. http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5314.jpg ... bird is just taxiing for take-off, I'm in AI mode with the sensor on the neck ... so long as I keep the sensor on the neck the head is in focus but if the wing gets in the way it will shift focus to the wing, which is a problem. 500 mm f/4 on a Wimberly pivot head ... I got about 8 frames of this guy. http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4956.jpg ... different bird, same mode, same problems ... http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4897.jpg ... AI mode, in this one the wing got in the way so the head/eye isn't sharp but the wing is ... this is the kind of problem Roger avoids by using One Shot instead of AI ... so there are advantages and disadvantages to each mode. http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ff_feather.htm ... tough problem here, the people beside me with 10D's (two) and a Nikon 1Dx couldn't focus on these puffins but with the 1D Mark II I was able to catch them about 1/3 the time ... AI mode, 400 f/5.6 hand-held, 45 AF points ... small dark target flying fast in bad weather ... tough conditions for flight photography. http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...tti_flight.htm ... same trip but an easy bird to photograph in flight since it's white, flys slow and is 4x bigger than a puffin ... piece of cake, even the 10D gets this one almost every shot. One more, this one sitting ... http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ve_blossom.jpg ... if you use the center focus point for a shot like this you'll get the breast sharp but the eye isn't sharply focussed so I used one of the off-center focus points in One Shot mode to lock on the neck, which is about on the same plane as the eye. This is with the 500 f/4 and a 1.4x t/c on a Mark II and prints beautifully at 16x24" ... using the center point and recomposing would probably not work as well (see the Westfall publication above) at this close range ... the problem with using an off-center focus point is if the bird moves his head to the other side (for example) and you no longer have a good composition ... I tried this several times on a bear in Denali and when it worked it was perfect but the bear kept swinging his head side to side sniffing the air so sometimes my focus point was on the wrong side of the frame ... My advice is to learn all the modes, practice with them and hope that you're in the right one when something good happens Bill |
#20
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On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 21:27:12 -0700, "Roger N. Clark (change username
to rnclark)" wrote: Bill, On the 10D and D60 cameras, I never found the AI, or AI focus were of much good for fast subjects, especially when unpredictable, like birds at takeoff or landing. On the IDII, I've set the AI to maximum rate and then it does real well (but my dogs playing are still faster). Back to the 10D and D60: for fast action, I learned to use single shot, and to lift my finger off the shutter and then press it completely again. I use AI nearly in 95% and Custrom Function for putting the AF to the AE-Button on the back reachable easily with my thumb. If I am following a subject and I think it is perfectly sharp I release the AE-Button and press the shutter where no focussing is happening anymore. When I have to recompose the frame a little bit and the AF sensor normaly would be somewhere on the background and the subject would have been out of focus this method works perfectly by dividing AF and shutter! Gruß Stefan -- People: http://www.stefanjondral.de/ Naturfotos: http://www.jondral-naturfoto.de/ |
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