Lastolite Ezybalance - the white side doesn't look white

I just got the 12" version of this, and one thing about it is
curious. The white side looks a bit creamy. In fact,there's a
stitched border around the perimeter of the white material, and the
border is clearly whiter than the main field.

I need to do some experimenting using the white side to set custom
white balance, and then the grey side to do that, and see which
seems better. But I just wondered if there was an explanation for
why the white side looks like that. The grey side looks pretty
neutral to me.

On 2011-11-14 15:06:46 -0800, Peabody said:

I just got the 12" version of this, and one thing about it is
curious. The white side looks a bit creamy. In fact,there's a
stitched border around the perimeter of the white material, and the
border is clearly whiter than the main field.

I need to do some experimenting using the white side to set custom
white balance, and then the grey side to do that, and see which
seems better. But I just wondered if there was an explanation for
why the white side looks like that. The grey side looks pretty
neutral to me.

Do not use the "White" side for custom WB. always use the "18% Grey".
The white is not a calibration standard. If you want to use the white
side to set a "White Point" it will do.
The Grey target is the thing to have in the image. Then in ACR or
Lightroom use the WB eye dropper tool to click on the grey target to
set your custom WB. You can then apply that WB setting to all the
images shot in a set of images shot under the same light
conditions/illumination.

I use a WhiBal card and the same technique applies.
http://michaeltapesdesign.com/whibal.html

Check their video tutorial on use.
http://www.whibalhost.com/_Tutorials/WhiBal/01/


--
Regards,

Savageduck

Savageduck says...

Do not use the "White" side for custom WB. always use
the "18% Grey". The white is not a calibration standard.
If you want to use the white side to set a "White Point"
it will do. The Grey target is the thing to have in the
image. Then in ACR or Lightroom use the WB eye dropper
tool to click on the grey target to set your custom WB.
You can then apply that WB setting to all the images
shot in a set of images shot under the same light
conditions/illumination.

And is the grey side also the correct side for setting
custom white balance in the camera?

Check their video tutorial on use.
http://www.whibalhost.com/_Tutorials/WhiBal/01/

If what he says is true - that light grey, not 18%, is what
you want for white balance, then if I use the Ezybalance
grey it looks like I should shoot it at +2 stops or
thereabouts so it's light grey in the picture. Does that
make sense?

On 2011-11-15 08:10:50 -0800, Peabody said:

Savageduck says...

Do not use the "White" side for custom WB. always use
the "18% Grey". The white is not a calibration standard.
If you want to use the white side to set a "White Point"
it will do. The Grey target is the thing to have in the
image. Then in ACR or Lightroom use the WB eye dropper
tool to click on the grey target to set your custom WB.
You can then apply that WB setting to all the images
shot in a set of images shot under the same light
conditions/illumination.

And is the grey side also the correct side for setting
custom white balance in the camera?

For most cameras a grey or white target will be fine for in-camera
custom WB setting. Also in-camera custom WB can be very subjective.
Learn to trust Auto-WB for JPEGs.

Remember a custom WB in your camera is only going to be applied to the
JPEG output. It will have to be adjusted every time you change the
illumination conditions
What camera are you using?
What do your camera instruction say?

I have a Nikon D300s and the instructions for "Measuring a Value for
White Balance" on page #144, state the following:

1: Light a reference object
Place a neutral gray or white object under the lighting that will be
used in the final photograph. In studio settings, a standard gray panel
can be used as a reference object.
Note that exposure is automatically increased by 1 EV when measuring
white balance; in exposure mode M, adjust exposure so the exposure
indicator shows +-0

steps 2-5 are specific to this camera.

Personally, when I shoot JPEG only, or RAW + JPEG, (I usually shoot RAW
only) I rely on Auto WB, or a standard pre-set when I am shooting under
a known light temperature.

Unless you are being particularly anal with regard to in-camera WB
settings I would not bother. Leave the custom WB for adjustment in the
RAW file processor of your choice.



Check their video tutorial on use.
http://www.whibalhost.com/_Tutorials/WhiBal/01/

If what he says is true - that light grey, not 18%, is what
you want for white balance, then if I use the Ezybalance
grey it looks like I should shoot it at +2 stops or
thereabouts so it's light grey in the picture. Does that
make sense?

That is his argument, that most grey references were intended for
You are adjusting WB not exposure. Shoot with whatever exposure
compensation your illumination requires. It is color temperature, not
exposure which should be the concern.

The older WhiBal cards included a darker grey for JPEG WB & exposure
adjustment (JPEG WB adjustment is always going to be subjective and not
particularly exact).
The current WhiBal cards ( I have two one credit card sized and one
larger 6 x 3.5 card) only have the calibrated grey for RAW WB
adjustment along with a "black point" & "white point" target and a
contrast target.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2011-11-15 12:41:39 -0800, tony cooper said:

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:28:27 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

That is his argument, that most grey references were intended for
You are adjusting WB not exposure. Shoot with whatever exposure
compensation your illumination requires. It is color temperature, not
exposure which should be the concern.

The older WhiBal cards included a darker grey for JPEG WB & exposure
adjustment (JPEG WB adjustment is always going to be subjective and not
particularly exact).
The current WhiBal cards ( I have two one credit card sized and one
larger 6 x 3.5 card) only have the calibrated grey for RAW WB
adjustment along with a "black point" & "white point" target and a
contrast target.

I have - and use - a WhiBal card from Michael Tapes, but I don't use
it prior to set a custom white balance. I use it for table-top
photography where I'm using external lighting. I take one shot with
the card in the image, and then the next shots without the card. All
shots are done with a fixed aperture and speed setting (M).

When I process the image, I use Photoshop Curves and use the white,
black, and gray points on the card to set the curve, save that curve,
and apply it to subsequent shots done under the same lights.

Most of the time, it works a treat. Sometimes, though, it's really
off. In those cases, I set the curve manually and save that.

Using that method is OK for JPEGs sometimes, but is always susceptible
to lighting quirks, and as you said you are setting an adjustment curve
using the white, black, & grey points, that is not setting the WB for
the JPEG after the fact. Trying to fix WB in a JPEG is always going to
be an eye-ball kludge.

Using your RAW, or DNG files and your WhiBAl card grey target for
setting WB in Lightroom or ACR is going to give you a much better
result.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 11/15/2011 3:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-11-15 12:41:39 -0800, tony cooper said:

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:28:27 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

That is his argument, that most grey references were intended for
You are adjusting WB not exposure. Shoot with whatever exposure
compensation your illumination requires. It is color temperature, not
exposure which should be the concern.

The older WhiBal cards included a darker grey for JPEG WB & exposure
adjustment (JPEG WB adjustment is always going to be subjective and not
particularly exact).
The current WhiBal cards ( I have two one credit card sized and one
larger 6 x 3.5 card) only have the calibrated grey for RAW WB
adjustment along with a "black point" & "white point" target and a
contrast target.

I have - and use - a WhiBal card from Michael Tapes, but I don't use
it prior to set a custom white balance. I use it for table-top
photography where I'm using external lighting. I take one shot with
the card in the image, and then the next shots without the card. All
shots are done with a fixed aperture and speed setting (M).

When I process the image, I use Photoshop Curves and use the white,
black, and gray points on the card to set the curve, save that curve,
and apply it to subsequent shots done under the same lights.

Most of the time, it works a treat. Sometimes, though, it's really
off. In those cases, I set the curve manually and save that.

Using that method is OK for JPEGs sometimes, but is always susceptible
to lighting quirks, and as you said you are setting an adjustment curve
using the white, black, & grey points, that is not setting the WB for
the JPEG after the fact. Trying to fix WB in a JPEG is always going to
be an eye-ball kludge.

Using your RAW, or DNG files and your WhiBAl card grey target for
setting WB in Lightroom or ACR is going to give you a much better result.


You can easily set WB in PS.

Duplicate the layer.
Filter | Blur | average
create a levels layer
touch the middle pointer to the blurred image
that will set layers to neutral gray.
delete the blurred layer
your image will be color corrected.

--
Peter

On 2011-11-15 14:07:22 -0800, PeterN said:

On 11/15/2011 3:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-11-15 12:41:39 -0800, tony cooper said:

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:28:27 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

That is his argument, that most grey references were intended for
You are adjusting WB not exposure. Shoot with whatever exposure
compensation your illumination requires. It is color temperature, not
exposure which should be the concern.

The older WhiBal cards included a darker grey for JPEG WB & exposure
adjustment (JPEG WB adjustment is always going to be subjective and not
particularly exact).
The current WhiBal cards ( I have two one credit card sized and one
larger 6 x 3.5 card) only have the calibrated grey for RAW WB
adjustment along with a "black point" & "white point" target and a
contrast target.

I have - and use - a WhiBal card from Michael Tapes, but I don't use
it prior to set a custom white balance. I use it for table-top
photography where I'm using external lighting. I take one shot with
the card in the image, and then the next shots without the card. All
shots are done with a fixed aperture and speed setting (M).

When I process the image, I use Photoshop Curves and use the white,
black, and gray points on the card to set the curve, save that curve,
and apply it to subsequent shots done under the same lights.

Most of the time, it works a treat. Sometimes, though, it's really
off. In those cases, I set the curve manually and save that.

Using that method is OK for JPEGs sometimes, but is always susceptible
to lighting quirks, and as you said you are setting an adjustment curve
using the white, black, & grey points, that is not setting the WB for
the JPEG after the fact. Trying to fix WB in a JPEG is always going to
be an eye-ball kludge.

Using your RAW, or DNG files and your WhiBAl card grey target for
setting WB in Lightroom or ACR is going to give you a much better result.


You can easily set WB in PS.

Duplicate the layer.
Filter | Blur | average
create a levels layer
touch the middle pointer to the blurred image
that will set layers to neutral gray.
delete the blurred layer
your image will be color corrected.

Why bother with all that tedium? You are setting WB as a starting point
for post processing, not color balancing, or exposure compensating
All I do is, at some point in shooting a series of shots, is to place
the WhiBal card in the scene under the working illumination and take a
shot.

Then in ACR I use the WB tool to set the WB without making any other
adjustments. Click on "Done" in ACR. Then in Bridge I select all of the
other images taken under the same conditions and apply the "previous
correction". Now each of those has the custom WB set and I can go ahead
and open all of those individually or as a batch in ACR, and I do not
have to worry about WB settings.

Here is a basic set up. In these two cases the background color efects
the WB in the scene. On the Left is the uncorrected NEF, on the Right
the WB corrected image, having used the WhiBal grey target in ACR.
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/WB%20compW.jpg


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 11/15/2011 6:22 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-11-15 14:07:22 -0800, PeterN said:

On 11/15/2011 3:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-11-15 12:41:39 -0800, tony cooper
said:

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:28:27 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

That is his argument, that most grey references were intended for
You are adjusting WB not exposure. Shoot with whatever exposure
compensation your illumination requires. It is color temperature, not
exposure which should be the concern.

The older WhiBal cards included a darker grey for JPEG WB & exposure
adjustment (JPEG WB adjustment is always going to be subjective and
not
particularly exact).
The current WhiBal cards ( I have two one credit card sized and one
larger 6 x 3.5 card) only have the calibrated grey for RAW WB
adjustment along with a "black point" & "white point" target and a
contrast target.

I have - and use - a WhiBal card from Michael Tapes, but I don't use
it prior to set a custom white balance. I use it for table-top
photography where I'm using external lighting. I take one shot with
the card in the image, and then the next shots without the card. All
shots are done with a fixed aperture and speed setting (M).

When I process the image, I use Photoshop Curves and use the white,
black, and gray points on the card to set the curve, save that curve,
and apply it to subsequent shots done under the same lights.

Most of the time, it works a treat. Sometimes, though, it's really
off. In those cases, I set the curve manually and save that.

Using that method is OK for JPEGs sometimes, but is always susceptible
to lighting quirks, and as you said you are setting an adjustment curve
using the white, black, & grey points, that is not setting the WB for
the JPEG after the fact. Trying to fix WB in a JPEG is always going to
be an eye-ball kludge.

Using your RAW, or DNG files and your WhiBAl card grey target for
setting WB in Lightroom or ACR is going to give you a much better
result.


You can easily set WB in PS.

Duplicate the layer.
Filter | Blur | average
create a levels layer
touch the middle pointer to the blurred image
that will set layers to neutral gray.
delete the blurred layer
your image will be color corrected.

Why bother with all that tedium? You are setting WB as a starting point
for post processing, not color balancing, or exposure compensating
All I do is, at some point in shooting a series of shots, is to place
the WhiBal card in the scene under the working illumination and take a
shot.

Then in ACR I use the WB tool to set the WB without making any other
adjustments. Click on "Done" in ACR. Then in Bridge I select all of the
other images taken under the same conditions and apply the "previous
correction". Now each of those has the custom WB set and I can go ahead
and open all of those individually or as a batch in ACR, and I do not
have to worry about WB settings.

Here is a basic set up. In these two cases the background color efects
the WB in the scene. On the Left is the uncorrected NEF, on the Right
the WB corrected image, having used the WhiBal grey target in ACR.
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/WB%20compW.jpg



That method is fine if you enjoy carrying an extra thing. Also it will
not remove color casts when you are shooting animals through glass in a
zoo.

--
Peter

On 2011-11-15 17:34:37 -0800, PeterN said:

On 11/15/2011 6:22 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-11-15 14:07:22 -0800, PeterN said:

On 11/15/2011 3:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-11-15 12:41:39 -0800, tony cooper
said:

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:28:27 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

That is his argument, that most grey references were intended for
You are adjusting WB not exposure. Shoot with whatever exposure
compensation your illumination requires. It is color temperature, not
exposure which should be the concern.

The older WhiBal cards included a darker grey for JPEG WB & exposure
adjustment (JPEG WB adjustment is always going to be subjective and
not
particularly exact).
The current WhiBal cards ( I have two one credit card sized and one
larger 6 x 3.5 card) only have the calibrated grey for RAW WB
adjustment along with a "black point" & "white point" target and a
contrast target.

I have - and use - a WhiBal card from Michael Tapes, but I don't use
it prior to set a custom white balance. I use it for table-top
photography where I'm using external lighting. I take one shot with
the card in the image, and then the next shots without the card. All
shots are done with a fixed aperture and speed setting (M).

When I process the image, I use Photoshop Curves and use the white,
black, and gray points on the card to set the curve, save that curve,
and apply it to subsequent shots done under the same lights.

Most of the time, it works a treat. Sometimes, though, it's really
off. In those cases, I set the curve manually and save that.

Using that method is OK for JPEGs sometimes, but is always susceptible
to lighting quirks, and as you said you are setting an adjustment curve
using the white, black, & grey points, that is not setting the WB for
the JPEG after the fact. Trying to fix WB in a JPEG is always going to
be an eye-ball kludge.

Using your RAW, or DNG files and your WhiBAl card grey target for
setting WB in Lightroom or ACR is going to give you a much better
result.


You can easily set WB in PS.

Duplicate the layer.
Filter | Blur | average
create a levels layer
touch the middle pointer to the blurred image
that will set layers to neutral gray.
delete the blurred layer
your image will be color corrected.

Why bother with all that tedium? You are setting WB as a starting point
for post processing, not color balancing, or exposure compensating
All I do is, at some point in shooting a series of shots, is to place
the WhiBal card in the scene under the working illumination and take a
shot.

Then in ACR I use the WB tool to set the WB without making any other
adjustments. Click on "Done" in ACR. Then in Bridge I select all of the
other images taken under the same conditions and apply the "previous
correction". Now each of those has the custom WB set and I can go ahead
and open all of those individually or as a batch in ACR, and I do not
have to worry about WB settings.

Here is a basic set up. In these two cases the background color efects
the WB in the scene. On the Left is the uncorrected NEF, on the Right
the WB corrected image, having used the WhiBal grey target in ACR.
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/WB%20compW.jpg



That method is fine if you enjoy carrying an extra thing. Also it will
not remove color casts when you are shooting animals through glass in a
zoo.

Carrying an "extra thing" is not an issue. I can hang it around my neck
by the lanyard, or I can slip it into a shirt pocket.
There is no problem getting a reference shot in any series of shots,
before, after, or during. I can just hold the card out at arms length
and take a reference shot, like so.
p://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/WB-Comp-02.jpg

Setting WB is not meant to remove color casts, there are other ways of
doing that.
Shooting animals through glass at a zoo presents a whole bunch of
issues which go well beyond WB issues. If you are going to specialize
in that type of photography I an sure you will be able to devise
solutions for those problems.

Personally, shooting zoo animals, indoors, through glass, are not
subjects I would deliberately seek out.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2011-11-15 18:47:38 -0800, Savageduck said:

On 2011-11-15 17:34:37 -0800, PeterN said:

On 11/15/2011 6:22 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-11-15 14:07:22 -0800, PeterN said:

On 11/15/2011 3:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-11-15 12:41:39 -0800, tony cooper
said:

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:28:27 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

That is his argument, that most grey references were intended for
You are adjusting WB not exposure. Shoot with whatever exposure
compensation your illumination requires. It is color temperature, not
exposure which should be the concern.

The older WhiBal cards included a darker grey for JPEG WB & exposure
adjustment (JPEG WB adjustment is always going to be subjective and
not
particularly exact).
The current WhiBal cards ( I have two one credit card sized and one
larger 6 x 3.5 card) only have the calibrated grey for RAW WB
adjustment along with a "black point" & "white point" target and a
contrast target.

I have - and use - a WhiBal card from Michael Tapes, but I don't use
it prior to set a custom white balance. I use it for table-top
photography where I'm using external lighting. I take one shot with
the card in the image, and then the next shots without the card. All
shots are done with a fixed aperture and speed setting (M).

When I process the image, I use Photoshop Curves and use the white,
black, and gray points on the card to set the curve, save that curve,
and apply it to subsequent shots done under the same lights.

Most of the time, it works a treat. Sometimes, though, it's really
off. In those cases, I set the curve manually and save that.

Using that method is OK for JPEGs sometimes, but is always susceptible
to lighting quirks, and as you said you are setting an adjustment curve
using the white, black, & grey points, that is not setting the WB for
the JPEG after the fact. Trying to fix WB in a JPEG is always going to
be an eye-ball kludge.

Using your RAW, or DNG files and your WhiBAl card grey target for
setting WB in Lightroom or ACR is going to give you a much better
result.


You can easily set WB in PS.

Duplicate the layer.
Filter | Blur | average
create a levels layer
touch the middle pointer to the blurred image
that will set layers to neutral gray.
delete the blurred layer
your image will be color corrected.

Why bother with all that tedium? You are setting WB as a starting point
for post processing, not color balancing, or exposure compensating
All I do is, at some point in shooting a series of shots, is to place
the WhiBal card in the scene under the working illumination and take a
shot.

Then in ACR I use the WB tool to set the WB without making any other
adjustments. Click on "Done" in ACR. Then in Bridge I select all of the
other images taken under the same conditions and apply the "previous
correction". Now each of those has the custom WB set and I can go ahead
and open all of those individually or as a batch in ACR, and I do not
have to worry about WB settings.

Here is a basic set up. In these two cases the background color efects
the WB in the scene. On the Left is the uncorrected NEF, on the Right
the WB corrected image, having used the WhiBal grey target in ACR.
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/WB%20compW.jpg



That method is fine if you enjoy carrying an extra thing. Also it will
not remove color casts when you are shooting animals through glass in a
zoo.

Carrying an "extra thing" is not an issue. I can hang it around my neck
by the lanyard, or I can slip it into a shirt pocket.
There is no problem getting a reference shot in any series of shots,
before, after, or during. I can just hold the card out at arms length
and take a reference shot, like so.
p://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/WB-Comp-02.jpg
Oops!
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/WB-Comp-02.jpg


Setting WB is not meant to remove color casts, there are other ways of
doing that.
Shooting animals through glass at a zoo presents a whole bunch of
issues which go well beyond WB issues. If you are going to specialize
in that type of photography I an sure you will be able to devise
solutions for those problems.

Personally, shooting zoo animals, indoors, through glass, are not
subjects I would deliberately seek out.


--
Regards,

Savageduck