Tetenal Ultrafin Plus is there an ryo equivalent?

Is there a published formula for an equivalent to Tetenal Ultrafin Plus?
TIA.

--
-Lew
The workers took the robot for Maria.

Originally Posted by Lew

Is there a published formula for an equivalent to Tetenal Ultrafin Plus?
TIA.

--
-Lew

No, Tetenal don`t publish their formulas.

"Lew" wrote in message
...
Is there a published formula for an equivalent to Tetenal
Ultrafin Plus?
TIA.

--
-Lew

The formula is proprietary but check books like Steve
Anchell's _Darkroom Cookbook_ because there are sometimes
pretty close guesses in them. I can't download the MSDS from
the Tetenal site for some reason, perhaps you can. It will
not give the formula but will at least give some clue as to
the type of developer.
In fact, while there are many developing agents and lots
of proprietary formulas most developers fall into a few
classes and within those classes there is not much
difference. Ultrafin is a liquid concentrate so some of the
ingredients will be chosen for their capability of being
dissolved in high concentrations and there will be some to
keep everything in solution. These are not needed when
mixing something in lower concentration.
If you want to mix your own just to do it the formula
for Kodak Xtol is available because its in the patent. This
is a very good developer for many films.
What exactly is your object in making your own?


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

I always mix my own developers. On the Rolli site there's mention of the
combo of one of their films at half its usual iso developed in ultrafin
plus. Thought I'd try it out.
"Richard Knoppow" wrote in message
m...

"Lew" wrote in message
...
Is there a published formula for an equivalent to Tetenal Ultrafin Plus?
TIA.

--
-Lew

The formula is proprietary but check books like Steve Anchell's
_Darkroom Cookbook_ because there are sometimes pretty close guesses in
them. I can't download the MSDS from the Tetenal site for some reason,
perhaps you can. It will not give the formula but will at least give some
clue as to the type of developer.
In fact, while there are many developing agents and lots of proprietary
formulas most developers fall into a few classes and within those classes
there is not much difference. Ultrafin is a liquid concentrate so some of
the ingredients will be chosen for their capability of being dissolved in
high concentrations and there will be some to keep everything in solution.
These are not needed when mixing something in lower concentration.
If you want to mix your own just to do it the formula for Kodak Xtol is
available because its in the patent. This is a very good developer for
many films.
What exactly is your object in making your own?


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

Lew wrote:
I always mix my own developers. On the Rolli site there's mention of the
combo of one of their films at half its usual iso developed in ultrafin
plus. Thought I'd try it out.

Go ahead (seriously). I used to mix up a lot of different developers to try
them out, too. But now the only one I mix is my own version of D-72 (for
paper) because I do not like the color I used to get with Dektol or straight
D-72. The only difference is my use of benzotriazole instead of potassium
bromide as restrainer.

I am reminded of something I believe Kenneth Mees once said about developers
(probably film developers. I cannot quote exactly, but it went to the effect
that it was amazing how many ways there were by which identical results
could be obtained.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 06:55:01 up 1 day, 11:43, 4 users, load average: 4.51, 4.22, 4.12

"Lew" wrote in message
...
I always mix my own developers. On the Rolli site there's
mention of the combo of one of their films at half its
usual iso developed in ultrafin plus. Thought I'd try it
out.
"Richard Knoppow" wrote in
message
m...

"Lew" wrote in message
...
Is there a published formula for an equivalent to
Tetenal Ultrafin Plus?
TIA.

The blurb for it on the Tetenal site suggests it does
not lose speed. There are several extra-fine-grain
developers which do lose about a stop of speed. Microdol-X
and Ilford Perceptol are examples. These two are probably
identical. They deliver very fine grain but have no acutance
effect when used full strength. You might be interested in
trying one. I have come to use one or the other routinely
for 100T-Max. In full strength Perceptol it has nearly as
fine grain as the late, lamented Kodak Technical Pan but
about four times the speed and no problems with contrast
control. In larger formats there is not very much difference
but the combination makes 35 mm negatives which begin to
have the smoothness of larger formats. I have not tried it
with other slow T-grain films like Ilford Delta or Fuji
Acros but it should give similar results with them.
The formula for Microdol-X is proprietary but the fine
grain agent in both it and Perceptol is common salt, sodium
chloride. I've seen a couple of variations on what is
represented as the formula. Its similar to D-23 but with the
addition of about 25 grams of sodium chloride per liter.
Note that the salt should be pure, most table salt has
sodium iodide in it as a nutricional supplement and most
have some sort of anti-caking agent. Supposedly kosher salt
is pure sodium chloride. Microdol-X, and probably Perceptol,
have some sort of silver sequestering agent in them to
prevent dichroic fog, a deposition of very finely devided
silver which is a characteristic of very fine grain
developers. I have no idea of what is actually used although
there are some interesting patents issued Kodak about this.
Plain Ultrafin, without the plus, appears from the MSDS
to be very similar to the old "fine grain"
metol-hydroquinone formulas of the 1930s and 1940s except
that it uses potassium salts rather than sodium. This may be
due to the generally higher amount of these salts which can
be dissolved in concentrated developers. Potassium salts may
have slightly different photographic activity than sodium
salts but the difference is not very large.
Frankly, I prefer to use products I know something
about even if I don't mix them myself.
I think the quote Jean-David Beyer was thinking of was
Mees's remark during a lecture that the very large number of
developing agents just shows how many ways there are of
accomplishing exactly the same thing. Mees was the founder
and director of the Kodak Research Laboratories from its
inception in 1912 until his retirement in 1961.
I found a web site on German developers, its in German
which I don't speak but does not appear to have very much
secret stuff on it.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

July 22, 2008, from Lloyd Erlick,

Potassium salts do show different
photographic activity from sodium
counterparts, but for film development I
doubt it would be visible or significant in
practical darkroom work.

I have compared simple black and white
*paper* developers made with potassium vs
sodium salts (e.g. the old Ansco 120 formula
- the D23 of paper ...). On warm tone paper
the results from a potassium developer are
slightly but quite visibly warmer. The effect
is not really visible until the paper is
selenium toned.

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
website: www.heylloyd.com
telephone: 416-686-0326
email:
________________________________
--

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:14:35 -0700, "Richard
Knoppow" wrote:
....
Potassium salts may
have slightly different photographic activity than sodium
salts but the difference is not very large.
Frankly, I prefer to use products I know something
about even if I don't mix them myself.
I think the quote Jean-David Beyer was thinking of was
Mees's remark during a lecture that the very large number of
developing agents just shows how many ways there are of
accomplishing exactly the same thing.
....

"Richard Knoppow"
Supposedly kosher salt is pure sodium chloride.

For photography Kosher salt is traif: the anti-caking agent
is P. Ferricyanide. I have no idea if there is enough to
cause any effect, but tiny amounts of P. Ferricyanide are
used for latent image bleaching. Apparently it isn't
the salt that is Kosher but that the salt is used for curing
Kosher meat.

Morton "Pickling and Canning Salt" is pure salt. Comes
in a green and white box.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index2.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com