My last post

I've been participating in this newsgroup for close to 10 years. I've
learned a lot, especially from a small group of knowledgeable and
friendly people, many of whom have left. As we know, though, it only
takes one unfriendly and domineering poster to change the whole tenor of
the group, and we've got more than one! This should be a community where
we support each other by helping each of us become better photographers
and people. You know, a place where we give each other the benefit of
the doubt, get what others say right, and where we're generally able to
have reasonable and friendly discussion. This is especially important
where there's disagreement. As it is, participating in this forum is
just an unpleasant waste of time. I for one have better things to do.

Unsubscribing,
Peter De Smidt

In article ,
Peter De Smidt pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net* wrote:

I've been participating in this newsgroup for close to 10 years. I've
learned a lot, especially from a small group of knowledgeable and
friendly people, many of whom have left. As we know, though, it only
takes one unfriendly and domineering poster to change the whole tenor of
the group, and we've got more than one! This should be a community where
we support each other by helping each of us become better photographers
and people. You know, a place where we give each other the benefit of
the doubt, get what others say right, and where we're generally able to
have reasonable and friendly discussion. This is especially important
where there's disagreement. As it is, participating in this forum is
just an unpleasant waste of time. I for one have better things to do.

Unsubscribing,
Peter De Smidt

Peter I agree, but just leaving gives in to them, and is exactly is what
these people want, If you don't ignore them they will always win.
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

I share your vision on what happened in this NG during the last year, Peter,
but I second Gregory: ignore them, don't turn your back to the friendly &
helpful people. I once 'unsubscribed' too, and I only missed the good
fellows here.

Jan


"Gregory W Blank" schreef in bericht
news:Pxwdd.7093$gq2.6820@trnddc01...
| In article ,
| Peter De Smidt pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net* wrote:
|
| I've been participating in this newsgroup for close to 10 years. I've
| learned a lot, especially from a small group of knowledgeable and
| friendly people, many of whom have left. As we know, though, it only
| takes one unfriendly and domineering poster to change the whole tenor of
| the group, and we've got more than one! This should be a community where
| we support each other by helping each of us become better photographers
| and people. You know, a place where we give each other the benefit of
| the doubt, get what others say right, and where we're generally able to
| have reasonable and friendly discussion. This is especially important
| where there's disagreement. As it is, participating in this forum is
| just an unpleasant waste of time. I for one have better things to do.
|
| Unsubscribing,
| Peter De Smidt
|
| Peter I agree, but just leaving gives in to them, and is exactly is what
| these people want, If you don't ignore them they will always win.
| --
| LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank
|
| "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
| or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
| is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
| to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Gregory W Blank wrote:

In article ,
Peter De Smidt pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net* wrote:

I've been participating in this newsgroup for close to 10 years. I've
learned a lot, especially from a small group of knowledgeable and
friendly people, many of whom have left. As we know, though, it only
takes one unfriendly and domineering poster to change the whole tenor of
the group, and we've got more than one! This should be a community where
we support each other by helping each of us become better photographers
and people. You know, a place where we give each other the benefit of
the doubt, get what others say right, and where we're generally able to
have reasonable and friendly discussion. This is especially important
where there's disagreement. As it is, participating in this forum is
just an unpleasant waste of time. I for one have better things to do.

Unsubscribing,
Peter De Smidt

Peter I agree, but just leaving gives in to them, and is exactly is what
these people want, If you don't ignore them they will always win.

Well, Peter's first response to one of my posts (not even a
directed to him) was "What a useless discussion..." Well!
I certainly didn't think my opinion was "useless." If that's
all he has to say to start off a discussion...

His tone and attitude seemed unfriendly to me, his mind
being made up. Of course he then accuses others of being
"unfriendly." I guess it's subjective as to who is friendly
or not. If you want friendly replies, better start out that
way. If trolls bother one, killfiles work wonders.

Though most of us think there's little call for profanity
and trolling, this is also USENET and there is this little
thing called freedom of expression, trolls and all. So,
if you can't deal with blunt opinion and critical discussion,
which like it or not is the norm on USENET, better restirct
yourself to only those who agree with you. There's
a reason when you go to moderated lists there's about
as much participation as there are martians on Mars.

I prefer knowledgable topics on photography, and I always
make a point to answer questions I can answer. But I also
like a good discussion now and then and, guess what, they
sometimes get bluntly heated and opinionated.

Over time I've had serious disagreements with many here. But
over time also still respect them as persons and remain on
friendly terms. Taking thing too personally (even from
trolls) is silly since no one disagrees on _everything_.

Frankly, this nsg is rather tame compared to others and
the flow of knowledge, though sometimes diluted by the
arguments and trolling, is still worthwhile.

You guys should visit rec.running :-)

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:10:44 -0600, Tom Phillips
wrote:



Gregory W Blank wrote:

In article ,
Peter De Smidt pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net* wrote:

I've been participating in this newsgroup for close to 10 years. I've
learned a lot, especially from a small group of knowledgeable and
friendly people, many of whom have left. As we know, though, it only
takes one unfriendly and domineering poster to change the whole tenor of
the group, and we've got more than one! This should be a community where
we support each other by helping each of us become better photographers
and people. You know, a place where we give each other the benefit of
the doubt, get what others say right, and where we're generally able to
have reasonable and friendly discussion. This is especially important
where there's disagreement. As it is, participating in this forum is
just an unpleasant waste of time. I for one have better things to do.

Unsubscribing,
Peter De Smidt

Peter I agree, but just leaving gives in to them, and is exactly is what
these people want, If you don't ignore them they will always win.

Well, Peter's first response to one of my posts (not even a
directed to him) was "What a useless discussion..." Well!
I certainly didn't think my opinion was "useless." If that's
all he has to say to start off a discussion...

His tone and attitude seemed unfriendly to me, his mind
being made up. Of course he then accuses others of being
"unfriendly." I guess it's subjective as to who is friendly
or not. If you want friendly replies, better start out that
way. If trolls bother one, killfiles work wonders.

Though most of us think there's little call for profanity
and trolling, this is also USENET and there is this little
thing called freedom of expression, trolls and all. So,
if you can't deal with blunt opinion and critical discussion,
which like it or not is the norm on USENET, better restirct
yourself to only those who agree with you. There's
a reason when you go to moderated lists there's about
as much participation as there are martians on Mars.

I prefer knowledgable topics on photography, and I always
make a point to answer questions I can answer. But I also
like a good discussion now and then and, guess what, they
sometimes get bluntly heated and opinionated.

Over time I've had serious disagreements with many here. But
over time also still respect them as persons and remain on
friendly terms. Taking thing too personally (even from
trolls) is silly since no one disagrees on _everything_.

Frankly, this nsg is rather tame compared to others and
the flow of knowledge, though sometimes diluted by the
arguments and trolling, is still worthwhile.

You guys should visit rec.running :-)

Nah, misc.writing.screenplays. There's a guy there who flooded and
crossposted so egregiously that the regulars went so far as to discuss
a moderated group and bringing legal actions on him. He reformed a
bit but kept on. Unfortunately he gets responses and some are worse
than the nameless one, here.

Pete's having a bad time of it, because he is caring too much. He was
right to say to ignor the nameless one's postings, and warn newbies,
too. Too bad he's let the creep get him down.

I think there;s a lot to be said for changing one's mind in such a
situation.

Robert Vervoordt, MFA

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:10:44 -0600, Tom Phillips
wrote:



Gregory W Blank wrote:

In article ,
Peter De Smidt pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net* wrote:

I've been participating in this newsgroup for close to 10 years. I've
learned a lot, especially from a small group of knowledgeable and
friendly people, many of whom have left. As we know, though, it only
takes one unfriendly and domineering poster to change the whole tenor of
the group, and we've got more than one! This should be a community where
we support each other by helping each of us become better photographers
and people. You know, a place where we give each other the benefit of
the doubt, get what others say right, and where we're generally able to
have reasonable and friendly discussion. This is especially important
where there's disagreement. As it is, participating in this forum is
just an unpleasant waste of time. I for one have better things to do.

Unsubscribing,
Peter De Smidt

Peter I agree, but just leaving gives in to them, and is exactly is what
these people want, If you don't ignore them they will always win.

Well, Peter's first response to one of my posts (not even a
directed to him) was "What a useless discussion..." Well!
I certainly didn't think my opinion was "useless." If that's
all he has to say to start off a discussion...

His tone and attitude seemed unfriendly to me, his mind
being made up. Of course he then accuses others of being
"unfriendly." I guess it's subjective as to who is friendly
or not. If you want friendly replies, better start out that
way. If trolls bother one, killfiles work wonders.

Though most of us think there's little call for profanity
and trolling, this is also USENET and there is this little
thing called freedom of expression, trolls and all. So,
if you can't deal with blunt opinion and critical discussion,
which like it or not is the norm on USENET, better restirct
yourself to only those who agree with you. There's
a reason when you go to moderated lists there's about
as much participation as there are martians on Mars.

I prefer knowledgable topics on photography, and I always
make a point to answer questions I can answer. But I also
like a good discussion now and then and, guess what, they
sometimes get bluntly heated and opinionated.

Over time I've had serious disagreements with many here. But
over time also still respect them as persons and remain on
friendly terms. Taking thing too personally (even from
trolls) is silly since no one disagrees on _everything_.

Frankly, this nsg is rather tame compared to others and
the flow of knowledge, though sometimes diluted by the
arguments and trolling, is still worthwhile.

You guys should visit rec.running :-)

Nah, misc.writing.screenplays. There's a guy there who flooded and
crossposted so egregiously that the regulars went so far as to discuss
a moderated group and bringing legal actions on him. He reformed a
bit but kept on. Unfortunately he gets responses and some are worse
than the nameless one, here.

Pete's having a bad time of it, because he is caring too much. He was
right to say to ignor the nameless one's postings, and warn newbies,
too. Too bad he's let the creep get him down.

I think there;s a lot to be said for changing one's mind in such a
situation.

Robert Vervoordt, MFA

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:40:15 GMT, Gregory W Blank
wrote:

Peter I agree, but just leaving gives in to them, and is exactly is what
these people want, If you don't ignore them they will always win.

Unfortunately they seem to be determined to have the longest
****ing contest in the history of the USENET.

Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
Vote "No! for the status quo. Vote 3rd party !!

On 10/21/2004 5:36 AM John spake thus:

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:40:15 GMT, Gregory W Blank
wrote:

Peter I agree, but just leaving gives in to them, and is exactly is what
these people want, If you don't ignore them they will always win.

Unfortunately they seem to be determined to have the longest
****ing contest in the history of the USENET.

Well, if that's their intention, they're not even close. Check other
newsgroups if you want to see some *real* action: this ain't nothing.


--
Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a
really easy way: stop participating in it.

- Noam Chomsky

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:02:22 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 10/21/2004 5:36 AM John spake thus:

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:40:15 GMT, Gregory W Blank
wrote:

Peter I agree, but just leaving gives in to them, and is exactly is what
these people want, If you don't ignore them they will always win.

Unfortunately they seem to be determined to have the longest
****ing contest in the history of the USENET.

Well, if that's their intention, they're not even close. Check other
newsgroups if you want to see some *real* action: this ain't nothing.

This isn't a competition David. In general I agree with Peter.

Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
Vote "No! for the status quo. Vote 3rd party !!

On 10/21/2004 8:42 PM John spake thus:

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:02:22 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 10/21/2004 5:36 AM John spake thus:

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:40:15 GMT, Gregory W Blank
wrote:

Peter I agree, but just leaving gives in to them, and is exactly is what
these people want, If you don't ignore them they will always win.

Unfortunately they seem to be determined to have the longest
****ing contest in the history of the USENET.

Well, if that's their intention, they're not even close. Check other
newsgroups if you want to see some *real* action: this ain't nothing.

This isn't a competition David. In general I agree with Peter.

My point was that things aren't half as bad here as some folks make out. If
they want to see a really ****ed-up situation, there are other newsgroups with
much more vituperation, backbiting, etc., etc.

I think there's a bit of Chicken Little stuff going on here.


--
Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a
really easy way: stop participating in it.

- Noam Chomsky