Sony to put more pressure on its APS line with APS-sized FF

In article , Neil
wrote:


not true. aps-c is approximately half the area of full frame, equating
to a one stop difference.

I don't knwo what you are referring to,

clearly.

but I have never seen the image
frame size change with a change of f-stop.

nobody said it did.

where did you get the crazy idea that it would??

your other question about reference to "other than size", I answered
it in my original response, so there is no need to repeat it.

you did not.

what you originally wrote was wrong and provided a link that doesn't
support your claim.

In article
.com,
says...

On Sep 6, 2020, Alfred Molon wrote
(in . com):

In ,
says...

Probably he damaged the skis beyond repair or even needed
multiple pairs of skis to finish the video.

Ever hear of omelets?

You mean this?
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=omelets

What does that have to do with skis?

Sometimes a metaphor, hinted at, can be lost in translation.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/you_can%27t_make_an_omelette_without_breaking_eggs

Oh... for a moment I was thinking that in the USA you have skis
with a steel/titanium bottom called 'omelets'.
People in the USA ski on omelets...
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
https://groups.io/g/myolympus
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

On 2020-09-06 13:49, Neil wrote:
On 9/6/2020 9:47 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-09-06 09:17, Neil wrote:
On 9/5/2020 10:12 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-09-05 08:55, Neil wrote:

I think some definitions have changed from the days of film. The
digital idea of "full frame" makes no sense in the physical size of
film frames. So, I take it to mean that it retains the full
_perspective_ of a lens rather than the cropped view that an APS-C [1] ---
sensor would normally yield.

Fullframe still means 35mm film sized frames.

If so, what is the "frame" in a digital camera? It certainly is not
an ASP-C sensor.

Full frame is 36x24mm.Â* FF digital sensors are typically within less
than a mm of that size.Â* The Sony a7 III for example is 35.6 x 23.8mm.

Digital cameras can employ any size of course and APS-C is a very good
compromise in getting lens sizes down while rendering high quality
results (though that's not why it was introduced).

You have, again, misunderstood my comment. An APS-C sensor (and many
other digital sensors) is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the "35mm full-frame" size.

I never said it was. I was replying to your bizarre statement above [1]
referencing perspective. (By the way, perspective has nothing to do at
all with lenses or sensors or anything other than a specific position in
space from which a scene is perceived).

There is NO correlation between them. Ergo, the "full frame" reference
is to something other than sensor size.

No. In context it refers to the 36x24mm film and sensor format as full
frame has referred to since the first FF digital camera.

And the context of this thread is a rumoured camera based on an existing
camera sensor with the dimensions 35.6 x 24.8mm - essentially 36x24mm
for all intents and purposes.

--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

On 2020-09-06 13:48, Alfred Molon wrote:
In article ,
says...

Probably he damaged the skis beyond repair or even needed
multiple pairs of skis to finish the video.

Ever hear of omelets?

You mean this?
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=omelets

What does that have to do with skis?

In order to make an omelet you have to break eggs.

In order to make a ski movie you might have to wreck some ...


--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

On 2020-09-06 16:55, Alfred Molon wrote:
In article
.com,
says...

On Sep 6, 2020, Alfred Molon wrote
(in . com):

In ,
says...

Probably he damaged the skis beyond repair or even needed
multiple pairs of skis to finish the video.

Ever hear of omelets?

You mean this?
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=omelets

What does that have to do with skis?

Sometimes a metaphor, hinted at, can be lost in translation.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/you_can%27t_make_an_omelette_without_breaking_eggs

Oh... for a moment I was thinking that in the USA you have skis
with a steel/titanium bottom called 'omelets'.
People in the USA ski on omelets...

Hmm - there's a good idea for a new video ....

--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

On 9/6/2020 5:29 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-09-06 13:49, Neil wrote:
On 9/6/2020 9:47 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-09-06 09:17, Neil wrote:
On 9/5/2020 10:12 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-09-05 08:55, Neil wrote:

I think some definitions have changed from the days of film. The
digital idea of "full frame" makes no sense in the physical size
of film frames. So, I take it to mean that it retains the full
_perspective_ of a lens rather than the cropped view that an APS-C
[1] ---
sensor would normally yield.

Fullframe still means 35mm film sized frames.

If so, what is the "frame" in a digital camera? It certainly is not
an ASP-C sensor.

Full frame is 36x24mm.Â* FF digital sensors are typically within less
than a mm of that size.Â* The Sony a7 III for example is 35.6 x 23.8mm.

Digital cameras can employ any size of course and APS-C is a very
good compromise in getting lens sizes down while rendering high
quality results (though that's not why it was introduced).
Â*
You have, again, misunderstood my comment. An APS-C sensor (and many
other digital sensors) is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the "35mm full-frame" size.

I never said it was.Â* I was replying to your bizarre statement above [1]
referencing perspective.Â* (By the way, perspective has nothing to do at
all with lenses or sensors or anything other than a specific position in
space from which a scene is perceived).

I used "perspective" in the same sense as it has always been used in
photography. Sorry if it wasn't clear to you.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/focal-length-angle-of-view-perspective


There is NO correlation between them. Ergo, the "full frame" reference
is to something other than sensor size.

No.Â* In context it refers to the 36x24mm film and sensor format as full
frame has referred to since the first FF digital camera.

And the context of this thread is a rumoured camera based on an existing
camera sensor with the dimensions 35.6 x 24.8mm - essentially 36x24mm
for all intents and purposes.

One thing that happens with usenet threads is that they vary from the
initial topic. That is why most of the posts in this topic have nothing
to do with the rumored "C" camera, including your own posts about omelets.

--
best regards,

Neil

On 2020-09-07 09:51, Neil wrote:
On 9/6/2020 5:29 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-09-06 13:49, Neil wrote:
On 9/6/2020 9:47 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-09-06 09:17, Neil wrote:
On 9/5/2020 10:12 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-09-05 08:55, Neil wrote:

I think some definitions have changed from the days of film. The
digital idea of "full frame" makes no sense in the physical size
of film frames. So, I take it to mean that it retains the full
_perspective_ of a lens rather than the cropped view that an
APS-C [1] ---
sensor would normally yield.

Fullframe still means 35mm film sized frames.

If so, what is the "frame" in a digital camera? It certainly is not
an ASP-C sensor.

Full frame is 36x24mm.Â* FF digital sensors are typically within less
than a mm of that size.Â* The Sony a7 III for example is 35.6 x 23.8mm.

Digital cameras can employ any size of course and APS-C is a very
good compromise in getting lens sizes down while rendering high
quality results (though that's not why it was introduced).
Â*
You have, again, misunderstood my comment. An APS-C sensor (and many
other digital sensors) is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the "35mm full-frame" size.

I never said it was.Â* I was replying to your bizarre statement above
[1] referencing perspective.Â* (By the way, perspective has nothing to
do at all with lenses or sensors or anything other than a specific
position in space from which a scene is perceived).

I used "perspective" in the same sense as it has always been used in
photography. Sorry if it wasn't clear to you.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/focal-length-angle-of-view-perspective

It's clear to me. It's clear to Sony.

Perspective is what is seen from the point of observation and has
absolutely nothing to do with angle of view, focal length or any other
thing. In photography as well as any other thing.

Merriam-Webster: Perspective.
: the appearance to the eye of objects in respect to their
relative distance and positions
4a: the technique or process of representing on a plane or
curved surface the spatial relation of objects as they might
appear to the eye specifically : representation in a drawing or
painting of parallel lines as converging in order to give the
illusion of depth and distance

Sony: Perspective (from your link)
The difference in apparent perspective is actually a result of
how far you are from your subject.

There is NO correlation between them. Ergo, the "full frame"
reference is to something other than sensor size.

No.Â* In context it refers to the 36x24mm film and sensor format as
full frame has referred to since the first FF digital camera.

And the context of this thread is a rumoured camera based on an
existing camera sensor with the dimensions 35.6 x 24.8mm - essentially
36x24mm for all intents and purposes.

One thing that happens with usenet threads is that they vary from the
initial topic. That is why most of the posts in this topic have nothing
to do with the rumored "C" camera, including your own posts about omelets.

This sub thread wrt FF started with Alfred questioning the need for FF
for vlogging (a very valid question that I went into elsewhere).

The omelet aphorism was solely that. I didn't realize that Alfred
wouldn't get that. He's German and while he presents very good English
skills, that's not to say aware of all the pithy aphorisms we use.

--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

In article , Neil
wrote:

I think some definitions have changed from the days of film. The
digital idea of "full frame" makes no sense in the physical size
of film frames. So, I take it to mean that it retains the full
_perspective_ of a lens rather than the cropped view that an APS-C
[1] ---
sensor would normally yield.

Fullframe still means 35mm film sized frames.

If so, what is the "frame" in a digital camera? It certainly is not
an ASP-C sensor.

Full frame is 36x24mm.* FF digital sensors are typically within less
than a mm of that size.* The Sony a7 III for example is 35.6 x 23.8mm.

Digital cameras can employ any size of course and APS-C is a very
good compromise in getting lens sizes down while rendering high
quality results (though that's not why it was introduced).
*
You have, again, misunderstood my comment. An APS-C sensor (and many
other digital sensors) is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the "35mm full-frame" size.

I never said it was.* I was replying to your bizarre statement above [1]
referencing perspective.* (By the way, perspective has nothing to do at
all with lenses or sensors or anything other than a specific position in
space from which a scene is perceived).

I used "perspective" in the same sense as it has always been used in
photography. Sorry if it wasn't clear to you.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/focal-length-angle-of-view-perspective

looks like it's not clear to *you*.

you originally said (full quote above):
_perspective_ of a lens rather than the cropped view that an APS-C

lenses do not have perspective (nor do sensor sizes), something which
the link *you* gave confirms.