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$230 12MP camera?



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 28th 07, 12:58 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Richard Karash
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Posts: 45
Default $230 12MP camera?

In article , SMS Ģ
§ wrote:

Stay away from the Olympus digital SLRs because they use a smaller
sensor and are noisier.


I'm sorry, but I think the Olympus dSLR's and other Four-Thirds cameras
are excelent. Read the reviews and look at images. I'm very happy with
my 6Mp Olympus e-330. (BTW, I'm also very happy with my Nikon and my
accumulated-over-the-years Nikkor glass.)

I suspect you can't go far wrong with a dSLR today.

-=- Rick

--
Richard Karash
Richard "at" Karash "dot" com
  #12  
Old November 28th 07, 06:20 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
John Adams[_2_]
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Posts: 76
Default $230 12MP camera?

SMS 斯蒂文• 夏 wrote:

Stay away from the Olympus digital SLRs because they use a smaller
sensor and are noisier.


Then why do the Olympus E510 examples look better than the Nikon D40X in
side by side comparison?

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.p...6&p2=2175&ph=2
  #13  
Old November 28th 07, 08:22 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David J Taylor[_4_]
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Posts: 1,151
Default $230 12MP camera?

John Adams wrote:
David J Taylor wrote:
I would suggest not getting a 4/3 camera
(Olympus, Panasonic?), as these are almost as big and heavy as a
conventional DSLR, but have a smaller sensor which means more noise
or a lower ISO.


Then why do the Olympus E510 examples look better than the Nikon D40X
in side by side comparison?

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.p...6&p2=2175&ph=2


To me, the Olympus images appear to have more noise than the Nikon. Look
at the lower left of the big bottle. A poor subject to test noise with,
though.

The Olympus images also appear to be either better focussed, to have a
poorer anti-alias filter, or to have more sharpening applied to them. To
me, the Olympus image look over-sharpened (which then introduces
uncertainties into the noise comparison). The Nikon image has noticeably
more saturation, the red at the bottom of the image.

Cheers,
David


  #14  
Old November 28th 07, 02:41 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Doug Jewell[_3_]
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Posts: 426
Default $230 12MP camera?

John Adams wrote:
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏 wrote:

Stay away from the Olympus digital SLRs because they use a smaller
sensor and are noisier.


Then why do the Olympus E510 examples look better than the Nikon D40X in
side by side comparison?

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.p...6&p2=2175&ph=2

Agree that the Olympus looks better in the first shot - but
the difference could be the lens, or could be differences in
the level of sharpening.
Now go to the drop down list and choose "Barbie, detail
without flash". The Nikon is at ISO 3200, the Olympus is
only at ISO 800. Despite the ISO on the Nikon being 4x the
Olympus, they are about the same as far as noise. The Nikon
colouring looks better too.
  #15  
Old November 28th 07, 02:52 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Doug Jewell[_3_]
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Posts: 426
Default $230 12MP camera?

Doug Jewell wrote:
John Adams wrote:
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏 wrote:

Stay away from the Olympus digital SLRs because they use a smaller
sensor and are noisier.


Then why do the Olympus E510 examples look better than the Nikon D40X
in side by side comparison?

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.p...6&p2=2175&ph=2

Agree that the Olympus looks better in the first shot - but the
difference could be the lens, or could be differences in the level of
sharpening.
Now go to the drop down list and choose "Barbie, detail without flash".
The Nikon is at ISO 3200, the Olympus is only at ISO 800. Despite the
ISO on the Nikon being 4x the Olympus, they are about the same as far as
noise. The Nikon colouring looks better too.

Actually, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that site. Just
looked at a few other cameras, and it appears they don't
make much effort to ensure the cameras are shooting in
consistent settings. I picked a few cameras at random, and
they all had the main scene rendered at different sizes, and
the main scene seems to change quite a bit too.
If they can't maintain consistency in the scene, how are we
to know if they are using comparable camera settings? Other
than the barbie without flash, they don't say what ISO, what
white balance setting, what lens, what aperture, what
shutter speed etc, they have taken the photo with.
  #16  
Old November 28th 07, 03:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Chris Savage
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Posts: 178
Default $230 12MP camera?

On 2007-11-28, Doug Jewell wrote:
Doug Jewell wrote:
John Adams wrote:
SMS ???? ? wrote:

Stay away from the Olympus digital SLRs because they use a smaller
sensor and are noisier.

Then why do the Olympus E510 examples look better than the Nikon D40X
in side by side comparison?

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.p...6&p2=2175&ph=2

Agree that the Olympus looks better in the first shot - but the
difference could be the lens, or could be differences in the level of
sharpening.
Now go to the drop down list and choose "Barbie, detail without flash".
The Nikon is at ISO 3200, the Olympus is only at ISO 800. Despite the
ISO on the Nikon being 4x the Olympus, they are about the same as far as
noise. The Nikon colouring looks better too.

Actually, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that site. Just
looked at a few other cameras, and it appears they don't
make much effort to ensure the cameras are shooting in
consistent settings.


I've poked around trying to find some kind of explanation of their test
rationales. I can't find anything.

Now I'm no Ken Rockwell^W^W rocket scientist but even I know that tests
performed without published, repeatable testing methods are no tests at all.
And whatever result it is you're trying to compare is worthless without
consistency in the method.

--
Chris Savage Kiss me. Or would you rather live in a
Gateshead, UK land where the soap won't lather?
- Billy Bragg
  #17  
Old November 28th 07, 03:27 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
John Adams[_2_]
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Posts: 76
Default $230 12MP camera?

Doug Jewell wrote:

Agree that the Olympus looks better in the first shot - but the
difference could be the lens, or could be differences in the level of
sharpening.
Now go to the drop down list and choose "Barbie, detail without flash".
The Nikon is at ISO 3200, the Olympus is only at ISO 800. Despite the
ISO on the Nikon being 4x the Olympus, they are about the same as far as
noise. The Nikon colouring looks better too.


Yea, but I don't shoot at high ISO so for my money the E510 is better.
  #18  
Old November 28th 07, 03:35 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
John Adams[_2_]
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Posts: 76
Default $230 12MP camera?

Doug Jewell wrote:

Now go to the drop down list and choose "Barbie, detail without
flash". The Nikon is at ISO 3200, the Olympus is only at ISO 800.
Despite the ISO on the Nikon being 4x the Olympus, they are about the
same as far as noise. The Nikon colouring looks better too.

Actually, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that site. Just looked at a
few other cameras, and it appears they don't make much effort to ensure
the cameras are shooting in consistent settings. I picked a few cameras
at random, and they all had the main scene rendered at different sizes,
and the main scene seems to change quite a bit too.
If they can't maintain consistency in the scene, how are we to know if
they are using comparable camera settings? Other than the barbie without
flash, they don't say what ISO, what white balance setting, what lens,
what aperture, what shutter speed etc, they have taken the photo with.


Well, regardless of their testing methods I still agree with their
bottom line so I don't think the smaller sensor means all that much in
the end, especially considering it is quite a bit cheaper than what
Nikon and Canon offers in this range.

"The E-510 is the most complete general public reflex: stabilization,
anti-dust, LCD aiming, and 10 MP. With excellent ergonomics and very
good image quality, this camera rivals and sometimes surpasses the
current leaders, the Canon 400D and Nikon D40x."
  #19  
Old November 28th 07, 10:48 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Doug Jewell[_3_]
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Posts: 426
Default $230 12MP camera?

John Adams wrote:
Doug Jewell wrote:

Now go to the drop down list and choose "Barbie, detail without
flash". The Nikon is at ISO 3200, the Olympus is only at ISO 800.
Despite the ISO on the Nikon being 4x the Olympus, they are about the
same as far as noise. The Nikon colouring looks better too.

Actually, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that site. Just looked at a
few other cameras, and it appears they don't make much effort to
ensure the cameras are shooting in consistent settings. I picked a few
cameras at random, and they all had the main scene rendered at
different sizes, and the main scene seems to change quite a bit too.
If they can't maintain consistency in the scene, how are we to know if
they are using comparable camera settings? Other than the barbie
without flash, they don't say what ISO, what white balance setting,
what lens, what aperture, what shutter speed etc, they have taken the
photo with.


Well, regardless of their testing methods I still agree with their
bottom line so I don't think the smaller sensor means all that much in
the end, especially considering it is quite a bit cheaper than what
Nikon and Canon offers in this range.

A testing method without consistency, is no test at all. I
could very easily make a $99 :&S look better than a $10000
SLR, simply by having a poor combination of shutter,
aperture, ISO & white balance.
How do we know that in that first shot, the focus point was
set the same? How do we know that the softness in the Nikon
wasn't because it was shot wide open, while the Olympus was
stopped down? How do we know the softness isn't because for
whatever reason it didn't focus accurately? As much as
dpreview is biased, at least with their tests they try to
ensure consistency in camera settings.

"The E-510 is the most complete general public reflex: stabilization,
anti-dust, LCD aiming, and 10 MP. With excellent ergonomics and very
good image quality, this camera rivals and sometimes surpasses the
current leaders, the Canon 400D and Nikon D40x."

I have no doubt that most of the above is true, but what is
also true is that in some circumstances (and ISO above 200
is one), the Nikon and Canon wipe the floor with the
Olympus. The testing site that you linked to doesn't provide
enough information to truly make the comparison. There is
only one shot where they post information about the camera
settings, and that is barbie detail without flash. Here the
Nikon is tested at ISO 3200, the Olympus at ISO 800. I
noticed the K10D was at ISO 100 - that is no way to make
comparisons. In a lot of the shots, the image size is
different - how can you compare sharpness between 2 images
where the subject is at different sizes? What you say about
the E510 may be true, but that site doesn't provide proof of
the matter.
  #20  
Old November 30th 07, 10:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Wolfgang Weisselberg
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Posts: 5,285
Default $230 12MP camera?

Richard Karash wrote:
In article , SMS Ģ


Stay away from the Olympus digital SLRs because they use a smaller
sensor and are noisier.


I'm sorry, but I think the Olympus dSLR's and other Four-Thirds cameras
are excelent.


If you intended that to be a counter-point, you missed.

I suspect you can't go far wrong with a dSLR today.


That's the point!

But still the Oly is noisier at ISO 400, and the default NR
settings (even at ISO 100, as here) can make strong men weep:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse510/page22.asp

-Wolfgang
 




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