From selenium to fixer. Oops!

While removing a print from the selenium 1:9 tray, I accidently dropped the
print in the fixer tray.

No staining occurred and I quickly rinsed the print with water.

Did I affect the archival qualities of the paper, and should I toss the
fixer?

Thanks,
Mike

Yes, dump the fixer. Everything else should be ok.


"Mike" wrote in message y.com...
While removing a print from the selenium 1:9 tray, I accidently dropped the
print in the fixer tray.

No staining occurred and I quickly rinsed the print with water.

Did I affect the archival qualities of the paper, and should I toss the
fixer?

Thanks,
Mike

"Mike" wrote

While removing a print from the selenium 1:9 tray, I accidently dropped the
print in the fixer tray.

No staining occurred and I quickly rinsed the print with water.

Did I affect the archival qualities of the paper,

No. But then you should check back in 200 years just to make sure.
You should have given the print a bath in HCA and a good wash, though.

and should I toss the fixer?

I wouldn't, but then I'm cheap. Selenium toner has a small amount of
fixer in it so they are compatible. However the selenium may
combine with the undeveloped silver salts of the next print to
be processed (big ? here) and do 'something'.

Richard is the man who would Know(ppow).

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

Mike wrote:
While removing a print from the selenium 1:9 tray, I accidently dropped the
print in the fixer tray.

No staining occurred and I quickly rinsed the print with water.

Did I affect the archival qualities of the paper, and should I toss the
fixer?

Yes because you didn't rewash the paper fully again. If you used KRST
then your selenium toner has fixer in it. If you didn't then you made
your own "rapid" fixer. ;-) This is because KRST has fixer in it, that
is the smell--ammonia.

On 2 May 2004 03:41:07 -0700,
(Alexis Neel) wrote:

Yes, dump the fixer. Everything else should be ok.


"Mike" wrote in message y.com...
While removing a print from the selenium 1:9 tray, I accidently dropped the
print in the fixer tray.

No staining occurred and I quickly rinsed the print with water.

Did I affect the archival qualities of the paper, and should I toss the
fixer?

Thanks,
Mike


may204 from Lloyd Erlick,

I don't see any reason to discard the fixer.
Selenium toner does (or, at least, can...) stain
prints if the prints are acidic when they enter
the toner, but I doubt the fixer (acid, no doubt)
will stain prints that are fixed in it. Certainly
the fixer could be used for prints that are not
meant to be final, display, sale quality. The
dropped print is probably unaffected.

I prefer a low-capacity fixer specifically because
it is discarded frequently in any case. A case
like this is a fine argument if favor of Dan
Quinn's single-use fixer.

regards,
--le

Mike wrote:
While removing a print from the selenium 1:9 tray, I accidently dropped
the
print in the fixer tray.

No staining occurred and I quickly rinsed the print with water.

Did I affect the archival qualities of the paper, and should I toss the
fixer?

Yes because you didn't rewash the paper fully again. If you used KRST
then your selenium toner has fixer in it. If you didn't then you made
your own "rapid" fixer. ;-) This is because KRST has fixer in it, that
is the smell--ammonia.

What I did was give the print a 15 minute wash followed by about a dozen
rinses of filling up the tray and dumping it.

I'll save the fix for crappy RC stuff.

Thanks,
Mike

Lloyd Erlick wrote

Mike wrote
While removing a print from the selenium 1:9 tray, I accidently
dropped the print in the fixer tray.
No staining occurred and I quickly rinsed the print with water.
Did I affect the archival qualities of the paper, and should I
toss the fixer?

from Lloyd Erlick,

I don't see any reason to discard the fixer.
Selenium toner does (or, at least, can...) stain
prints if the prints are acidic when they enter
the toner, but I doubt the fixer (acid, no doubt)
will stain prints that are fixed in it. Certainly
the fixer could be used for prints that are not
meant to be final, display, sale quality. The
dropped print is probably unaffected.

I prefer a low-capacity fixer specifically because
it is discarded frequently in any case. A case
like this is a fine argument if favor of Dan
Quinn's single-use fixer. regards, --le

I have read that the A. thiosulfate in KRST is to prevent death
in the event something like the above described mistake is made. The
A. thio. has some capacity for absorbing hydrogen selenide gas evolved
when selenium toner incounters an acid bath. Sodium thiosulfate
will likely work just as well; KSST, Kodak Slow Selenium Toner.
I don't think one print will spoil the fix. Silver complexes
held in the fix could react with the selenium at some concentration to
produce stain and/or precipitate. I say some concentration because
thiosulfate will complex with some silver even if sulfide
is present. Cyanide and thiosulfate are the only substances which will
complex with the iodide and sulfide for any practical purpose; perhaps
the selenide should also be added to that short list.

An aside: I'm at odds with Dr. M. J. Gudzinowicz. Several of his
observations have me wondering; acid fix only, only full strength fix
works, and more. Of course it's all very conditional and takes
carefull reading. Dan

"Dan Quinn" wrote in message
om...
Lloyd Erlick wrote

Mike wrote
While removing a print from the selenium 1:9 tray, I
accidently
dropped the print in the fixer tray.
No staining occurred and I quickly rinsed the print
with water.
Did I affect the archival qualities of the paper, and
should I
toss the fixer?

from Lloyd Erlick,

I don't see any reason to discard the fixer.
Selenium toner does (or, at least, can...) stain
prints if the prints are acidic when they enter
the toner, but I doubt the fixer (acid, no doubt)
will stain prints that are fixed in it. Certainly
the fixer could be used for prints that are not
meant to be final, display, sale quality. The
dropped print is probably unaffected.

I prefer a low-capacity fixer specifically because
it is discarded frequently in any case. A case
like this is a fine argument if favor of Dan
Quinn's single-use fixer.
regards, --le

I have read that the A. thiosulfate in KRST is to
prevent death
in the event something like the above described mistake is
made. The
A. thio. has some capacity for absorbing hydrogen selenide
gas evolved
when selenium toner incounters an acid bath. Sodium
thiosulfate
will likely work just as well; KSST, Kodak Slow Selenium
Toner.
I don't think one print will spoil the fix. Silver
complexes
held in the fix could react with the selenium at some
concentration to
produce stain and/or precipitate. I say some concentration
because
thiosulfate will complex with some silver even if sulfide
is present. Cyanide and thiosulfate are the only
substances which will
complex with the iodide and sulfide for any practical
purpose; perhaps
the selenide should also be added to that short list.

An aside: I'm at odds with Dr. M. J. Gudzinowicz.
Several of his
observations have me wondering; acid fix only, only full
strength fix
works, and more. Of course it's all very conditional and
takes
carefull reading.
Dan

Not true. The thiosulfate in KRST is to allow the
Selenium to work. The amount of selenium in the toner is
small and miniscule in the diluted toner. The danger of any
gas is insignificant. I think this is perhaps a confusion
with hydrogen cyanide gas, which is absorbed by hypo. In
fact hypo is a standard antidote for cyanide poisoning.

KRST is not hazardous nor are most other packaged photo
chemicals.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Mike" wrote in message
.com...
While removing a print from the selenium 1:9 tray, I
accidently dropped the
print in the fixer tray.

No staining occurred and I quickly rinsed the print with
water.

Did I affect the archival qualities of the paper, and
should I toss the
fixer?

Thanks,
Mike


KRST has a relatively large component of ammonium
thiosulfate ("rapid" fixer) in it to facilitate the toning
reactions. Since the print must be thoroughly washed after
toning you didn't do anything to it. Just wash as normal.
While the Selenium toner _might_ contaminate the fixer I
doubt that enough got into it to do any damage. In any case
fixer is an expendilble with very limited capacity.
On of the curiousities of KRST is that it does not stain
when there is an excess of hypo, so prints can be toned
directly from the fixing bath. You should test first because
the acid in the hypo _might_ cause a deposit of elemental
selenium resulting in a stain. Where the KRST is reasonably
diluted this does not happen.
Kodak used to recommend KRST at a 1:9 dilution as an
alternative to the sodium sulfide test solution for the
presence of unfixed silver halide. It has the advantage of
being nearly odorless and long lived. However, the test
fails if there is a lot of hypo left in the paper or film so
the sulfide test remains the standard because it can be used
directly after fixing.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Richard Knoppow" wrote


Kodak used to recommend KRST at a 1:9 dilution as an
alternative to the sodium sulfide test solution for the
presence of unfixed silver halide. It has the advantage of
being nearly odorless and long lived. However, the test
fails if there is a lot of hypo left in the paper or film so
the sulfide test remains the standard because it can be used
directly after fixing.


Are you saying that the sulfide test will detect only the unfixed
silver? The sulfide will have no effect on the fixed silver? Dan