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  #271  
Old May 16th 18, 11:24 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
-hh
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Posts: 694
Default Maybe OT Tesla


Whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 16 May 2018 13:07:23 UTC+1, -hh wrote:
[…]
Agreed - which is not a technology barrier issue: it’s cost.


which means it won't be solved.


If that were true, you would have never bought any PC...

I never have, I brought a Mac ;-P


Way to deliberately miss (and avoid) the point.

The facts of the matter are that continuing investments have driven
the cost curve down for these newer technologies.


The cost of wiond turbins have increased due toi maintaince which wasntl; included original in the costing.


Who was your bloody engineer? Donald Crowhurst?

Just how far they’ll
go has yet to be determined; the learning curve is classically asymptotic
and it hasn’t flattened out yet, which is indicative that they are going to
continue to drop in cost.


But there's only a limited number of places where they are worth installing if
at all ...


So what? There’s a whole field known as “Appropriate Technologies” Engineering,
that has methods of not choosing the wrong technology for the customer. Of course,
some of this is basic common sense, like not buying a bicycle if rhe job is to haul concrete.

and they still cost more to generate electricity than coal or nuclear.


Nope, no longer true as of 2017:

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/economics-working-against-coal-as-cost-of-wind-solar-power-drops/

Considering how close they are to cross-over
right now, I’d bet large that they will indeed become cheaper. Probably
within five years; definitely within ten.


How will they get cheaper will the cost of copper come done , the cost of
installing them out at sea, the cost of the concrete structures so tell em
where will the cost be falling ?


Per the above, wind is currently at $30-$60 per MWhr, whereas coal is $60-$143
and Nuclear is $112 - $183.

And the basic reason why has already been explained to you.

They’ve already taking up more adoption in
Africa, for example, since their localization also means that they’re cheaper to deploy
today to regions which lack grid infrastructure.


Yes so, I don't see how you'll plug your car into their grid.


Personally, I’d not be surprised to hear of all-electric safari vehicles
offered for tourism within 5-10 years.

Presently about 90% of there generation is from coal anyway.


For as far as their limited grid reaches...and is prone to outages.

Lots of africa cant; afford clean water I doubt they'll be buying wind turbines
and solar panels when the can only just about afford the buckets and walking
miles per day to get clean water, yuo'd have though a few turbins or solar panels
is Africa could pump water to villages wouldn't you ?


I personally saw solar panels and wind turbines in use in Tanzania as early as 2006.
Plus solar hot water systems in a few places too (donkey boilers in others)..

Same for most countries and that is part of the problem.


A lot of the EU is less shortsighted than the US’s Republican Party.


Yes I agree and most of the EU population won;t complain about the extra tax
whereas in america they will.


The irony is that most in the US don’t recognize all of their hidden taxes already in their utilities, etc.

In the EU most workers expect 4 weeks holiday and a cheap or free health system,
but you won;t find either in the states, because they are used to more money in their
pocket ...


Because most Americans are downright ****ing stupid. US healthcare for a family now
sucks down over $25K/yr, so a hell of a lot of good it does to allegedly be paid more.

... and see little reson to have a holiday as everything they need is in the USA.
(for a lot of the population anyway)


There is a Nationalistic attitude of that, sure, but the simple reality is that most households
in the USA simply can’t afford to spend $5K/yr for vacations.

And ROI’s are continuing to change (improve). Personally, I’d pay today
for a 7 year ROI if I was planning on staying in our current house that long.


So yuo wouldnlt think that such a system would be good for a prospective buyer
of your property why is that then ? Why isn't such a system worth having ?


Because I’d be buying it for my own interests, not speculatively for some potential future buyer.

Part of my concern is that I’d also want that to include off-grid contingency
operations. Locally, neighbors are paying $5K - $8K per household to have
a generator system installed (I have a tiny 2kW portable that cost only $2K).


Strange those that want renewable energy have such costs and contigrncies
makes you wonder why more people don't go off-grid renewable doesn't it ?


I see it as more of the better off getting fed up with poor level of service from the
legacy infrastructure, in no small part because of its maintenance getting squeezed
to maximize corporate profits. As I write this, literally a third of our town at home is
without power because of a strong thunderstorm which went through last night. Basic
root cause is because of deliberate cuts in PM tree trimming, which now results in
overgrown trees regularly pulling the lines down. This is the 3rd time this has happened
so far in 2018, which is bull****.

For example, the below cite states that there were 147 proven causal deaths in 2013
from what had been known as ‘Black Lung’ disease.

and none from nuclear. So is coal as safe ?

Maybe. Has the entire lifecycle been examined in detail?

It would be an impossble comparision to make.


Nonsense. No comparison is ever perfect, but they’re good enough to
assess the pro/con trades.


No not really, it's difficult to measure in most industries, even here it's difficult.
Here before I told them they got it wrong, in order to be safe every item in the lab
had to be PAT tested EVERY 12 months even new items from repuable companies,
couldn't be used until tested. I considered that a waste of money it went on for
years 10+ years at least.


So tell me how much would it cost to reduce the number of deaths from wind turbins
by say 50% ?


First, determine how many deaths occur relative to other related industries, to gage if
it is a significant problem or not. Otherwise, you’ve failed your risk-benefit cost analysis.




True, there is myopia, but from a public health & safety viewpoint, they all matter.

But not to all equally it;s not lioke were musketeers.


Merely YA factor to be debated and weighting assigned in the analysis.


Yeah sure.


You were willing to do this for Nuclear ...

(and yes, I do care about the risks taken...which is why I don’t eat certain types of seafood).

And vegitarians don't eat animals...... so even less risk.


Not necessarily. There’s injuries/deaths incurred at farms too....


Yes those fruit pickers are in far greater danger than those trawler men at sea.


Chewed through a combine. Buried in a grain elevator....

21 deaths/year per 100K:
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/aginjury/default.html

I suprised there isn't a progam on TV about them like those Deadliest catch ice road truckers and the like.


Again, just because it isn’t “sexy” doesn’t mean that it’s no longer a death.

The second is merely a threat to break your wallet.


Which of course no one gives a **** about.
Which is why yuo see quesues of people buying turbins and sloar panels for their home.


I’ve not yet bothered to count, but I’d guess that solar panel installations in my
suburban neighborhood has probably crossed 10% already, and most of has been
installed within the last three years.

Nope. The reason why coal has a cost edge is because it has never had to pay
for all of its externalities,

because it doesn't need many.


nope. Coal still doesn’t pay the full costs to society/environment for their waste stream (slag/slurry).


Because it's difficult to work out and not top of any need to do list.


Indeed: environmental disposal of coal slurry is expensive, and it’s been an “out of sight, out of mind”
problem that’s been around for decades...with a lot of political donations to keep it that way. FWIW,
where my father grew up, they had a series of dams on the local river to catch coal silt...he would talk
about going for a summer swim and come out of the wate covered in a thin film of black. Those dams
are still on that river today, with all that waste a few inches below the modern silt...it’s going to be
hellaciously expensive to clean up, and since the original corporation is long gone, it will have to be
paid for by taxpayers, not the stockholders who walked away with the profits.


-hh
  #272  
Old May 17th 18, 12:47 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 12,246
Default Maybe OT Tesla

On Wed, 16 May 2018 08:02:18 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 May 2018 13:07:23 UTC+1, -hh wrote:
4:03 AMWhisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 15 May 2018 19:16:35 UTC+1, -hh wrote:
Whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 15 May 2018 12:57:03 UTC+1, -hh wrote:
Whisky-dave wrote:
-hh wrote:


--- enormous backwards and forwards snipped ---

You guys should read this article and the subsequent debate, all of
which has just appeared:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/05/...-so-expensive/
or https://tinyurl.com/y9hwylb8
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #273  
Old May 17th 18, 12:04 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
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Posts: 3,813
Default Maybe OT Tesla

On 2018-05-17 10:19:14 +0000, Whisky-dave said:

Nearly 120 wind turbines catch fire each year, according to a research
- ten times the number reported by the industry. The researchers claim
that out of 200,000 turbines around the world, 117 fires take place
annually - far more than what is reported by wind farm companies.


That could be hazard during the fire season, especially in the
woodlands... The main environmental problem would otherwise be the
infrasound that can disturb wildlife within large radiuses from the
plant: "The extremely low air pressure surrounding a wind turbine could
be the reason why bats die near them. A bat's lungs are very delicate,
and it seems the low pressure might cause them to expand to the point
of bursting blood vessels [source: NewScientist]."

They allegedly kill bats:
https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/wind-turbines-health1.htm


I like bats:..-(

Here's a celebration to bats of all kinds! :-))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulOLYnOthIw
--
teleportation kills

  #274  
Old May 17th 18, 01:07 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
-hh
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Posts: 694
Default Maybe OT Tesla

Too tediously long to point-by-point on a mobile .. i’ll revisit it next week from a desktop.

In the meantime:
Only 10% you said 33% was without power recently I'd expect a much bigget take up.


Different metrics with different motivations.

Why is it only 10% when 33% are without power, instead of spending $5K - $8K per
household to have a generator installed why don't they put the money to solar or a wind farm ?


Because there’s still those who bought a conventional generator a decade ago to alleviate the
grid power downtime problem. Its trade-off is that it doesn’t have a positive ROI because it doesn’t
ever lower their monthly utility bills.

-hh
  #275  
Old May 17th 18, 01:45 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
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Posts: 3,813
Default Maybe OT Tesla

On 2018-05-17 12:07:29 +0000, -hh said:

Too tediously long to point-by-point on a mobile .. i’ll revisit it
next week from a desktop.


Are you posting from an Android device?

https://newsgroup.en.aptoide.com/

You can either install via the Aptoide app or search Goog Play...

https://en.aptoide.com/thank-you
--
teleportation kills

  #276  
Old May 17th 18, 01:48 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
David B.[_2_]
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Posts: 195
Default Maybe OT Tesla

On 17/05/2018 13:45, android wrote:
On 2018-05-17 12:07:29 +0000, -hh said:

Too tediously long to point-by-point on a mobile .. i’ll revisit it
next week from a desktop.


Are you posting from an Android device?

https://newsgroup.en.aptoide.com/

You can either install via the Aptoide app or search Goog Play...

https://en.aptoide.com/thank-you


Did you not like Daisy?

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...&o e=5B7C7631

I'm quite amazed by the quality of this image taken with an iPad Pro.

--
David B.
  #277  
Old May 17th 18, 02:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
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Posts: 3,813
Default Maybe OT Tesla

On 2018-05-17 12:48:21 +0000, David B. said:

On 17/05/2018 13:45, android wrote:
On 2018-05-17 12:07:29 +0000, -hh said:

Too tediously long to point-by-point on a mobile .. i’ll revisit it
next week from a desktop.


Are you posting from an Android device?

https://newsgroup.en.aptoide.com/

You can either install via the Aptoide app or search Goog Play...

https://en.aptoide.com/thank-you


Did you not like Daisy?

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...&o e=5B7C7631


I'm quite amazed by the quality of this image taken with an iPad Pro.


Daisy seem to be hiding from something. Could it be you?
--
teleportation kills

  #278  
Old May 17th 18, 03:05 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
David B.[_2_]
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Posts: 195
Default Maybe OT Tesla

On 17/05/2018 14:18, android wrote:
On 2018-05-17 12:48:21 +0000, David B. said:

On 17/05/2018 13:45, android wrote:
On 2018-05-17 12:07:29 +0000, -hh said:

Too tediously long to point-by-point on a mobile .. i’ll revisit it
next week from a desktop.

Are you posting from an Android device?

https://newsgroup.en.aptoide.com/

You can either install via the Aptoide app or search Goog Play...

https://en.aptoide.com/thank-you


Did you not like Daisy?

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...&o e=5B7C7631


I'm quite amazed by the quality of this image taken with an iPad Pro.


Daisy seem to be hiding from something. Could it be you?


Most certainly not!

Daisy belongs to my neice; she's abroad on holiday with her husband at
present and my sister is looking after Daisy during her owner's absence.

I suspect Daisy is looking rather sad because she's missing her owner.

I had asked your opinion of the picture quality and simply wondered why
you hadn't responded. Did I say something to upset you?

--
David B.


  #279  
Old May 17th 18, 04:31 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,813
Default Maybe OT Tesla

On 2018-05-17 14:05:51 +0000, David B. said:

I had asked your opinion of the picture quality and simply wondered why
you hadn't responded. Did I say something to upset you?


Sooo... The dog Daisy is unhappy with your care... Oki...
--
teleportation kills

  #280  
Old May 17th 18, 04:59 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
David B.[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default Maybe OT Tesla

On 17/05/2018 15:52, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 17 May 2018 13:48:29 UTC+1, David B. wrote:
On 17/05/2018 13:45, android wrote:
On 2018-05-17 12:07:29 +0000, -hh said:

Too tediously long to point-by-point on a mobile .. i’ll revisit it
next week from a desktop.

Are you posting from an Android device?

https://newsgroup.en.aptoide.com/

You can either install via the Aptoide app or search Goog Play...

https://en.aptoide.com/thank-you


Did you not like Daisy?

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...&o e=5B7C7631

I'm quite amazed by the quality of this image taken with an iPad Pro.


yes I thought it was well framed and at an interesting angle for this type of pet shot.


Thanks. :-)

Daisy belongs to my niece; she and her husband are currently abroad on
holiday and Daisy is being looked after by my my sister.

I suspect that Daisy is looking a bit sad because she's missing her owners.

My sister took this on the spur of the moment with her iPad Pro. I think
the picture quality outstanding, one of the reasons I posted the image.
Six months ago my sister had never used a computer, had never used a
smart 'phone and simply 'bit the bullet' with this new device. Not bad
for a young lady of 81!

--
David B.
 




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