Hard to break into National Geographic's staff.

"Rita Ä Berkowitz" ritaberk2O04 @aol.com wrote in message
...
William Graham wrote:

They are refusing to trust their own judgment, or are too lazy to
trust it, is what they are doing.

Well, it's their bag of marbles and they can make up any rules they wish.
They also have the luxury of packing up all the marbles and moving on. If
the other players don't like it, so sad that's life.

Well, that's true. Which goes back to what I said. You have to take the
pictures, and publish your own book with them in it, and sell it yourself,
too.....

On Aug 14, 9:10 pm, "William Graham" wrote:
"Rita Ä Berkowitz" ritaberk2O04 @aol.com wrote in ...



Pat wrote:

You are missing the point. It's all about simple economics. Why
should they hire anymore on-staff photographers for their limited on
assignment jobs when they can go to pbase, flicker, photo.net and
other photo hosting sites and offer the photographer $5 and a years
NG subscription for truly spectacular wildlife photos instead of
some over-Photoshopped crap? There are some really spectacular
wildlife photos out there other than what you see on Usenet.

Rita

Yes William missed the point, but this isn't the only point he
missed. What NG was saying is "we have plenty of gifted photographers
who we know and trust, we do not know you and we do not trust you. Go
get some experience and if you stand out, we'll call you (just like
the other people we already use) and then we can talk.

William, if you want assignments like that, you need to earn your
stripes. Go start shooting assignments like that for a stock company,
a newspaper, or someone. When you work stands out, then you can go
talk to them.

Let me get this straight.....NG doesn't trust it's own judgement well enough
to do its own hireing and fireing.....So, instead of looking at the work of
photographers, they sit back and wait for other people (of completely
unknown ability) to do it for them, and then after one of those
photographers makes it and becomes well known, they pay an exhorbitant price
to hire them away from who,ever found them......I would think that they
could trust their own judgement a little better than that, and find their
own gems among the pebbles......



This level of photography isn't about pulling off 1 really great
picture in your life. It's about pulling off a dozen really, really
great pictures in a day -- doing that day in and day out until you get
the pictures they want.

They aren't looking for someone who want to move into the big
leagues. They are looking for people who are already there.

Well said.

They are refusing to trust their own judgment, or are too lazy to trust it,
is what they are doing.

Are you trolling or just arrogant?

Let's say you are NG and you want to do a story on the beavers of
Upper Nowhere, Canada. What do you do. You pull out the file on the
guy who did a great job on the Otters of Upper Nowhere, Alaska. You
ask him if he can do beavers and tell him to get his passport ready.
You know this guy/girl will do a great job, has the equipment, can
handle the weather, etc. etc. So you go with him or her.

If that guy isn't available, then you check to see who is available.
Who can shoot Canadian critters?

If you can't find anyone and no one else seems to fit the bill, what
does one do? They don't go to they arrogant guy who tried to apply
via email, you go open up some publications and you go find a guy who
has shot critters in Canada before. That's who you go hire.

The other way in, I imaging, is if you know someone. Say to are the
assistant to Ms. Smith. They call her and she is not available. She
might say, hey, my assistant can handle that.

You need to remember that publications like NG are not looking for a
few good photographs. They are looking for a ton of OUTSTANDING
ones. If you see 5 astonishing photos in a story, you can be sure
that there are probably another 50 that are equally good in the trash
heap.

Just out of curiosity, just how good are you? Can you post a link to
your best pictures? Let's see what NG turned down.

"Pat" wrote in message

Just out of curiosity, just how good are you? Can you post a link to
your best pictures? Let's see what NG turned down.

I wasn't asking for myself....I am 71, and am retired and not looking for
work.....But it (apparently) doesn't matter....They are not about to look at
my pictures or those of anyone else....That's my point....I doesn't matter a
damn how good the pictures are, because they refuse to look at them. they
are going to go with Ivan and his crew, because he could shovel the coal
harder and faster than anyone else could last month. They aren't interested
in artists, they are interested in anyone on their list who can "do the
beavers" because he could, "do the otters".
My point is that they are denying that photography is an art, and there
might be people who are better artists than the ones on their list. -
Because (I am assuming) they are too lazy to look at someone's work and
compare it to the work of the people they have on their list. - It's too
easy to just go with the names on their list.
I'm not complaining....For all I know, I might do the same thing, were I
they. I am just stating a fact. They are treating their "work" just like you
would treat people who shovel coal in Siberia.
Let me put it another way. Suppose the greatest artist that ever touched
a camera were to appear.....He took photographs that surpassed anything NG
had ever published, by an order of magnitude....The greatest phtographer of
all time.
NG would never know that this person existed....He doesn't happen to be
on their list....It isn't enough that he is the greatest photographer of all
time. It isn't enough that he posts his work, and tells NG where to go to
look at it.....They will never see it, because, HE ISN'T ON THEIR F******
LIST!!!

On Aug 15, 2:19 am, "William Graham" wrote:
"Pat" wrote in message

Just out of curiosity, just how good are you? Can you post a link to
your best pictures? Let's see what NG turned down.

I wasn't asking for myself....I am 71, and am retired and not looking for
work.....

Then why did you write NG? Maybe they wouldn't look at the pictures
because the photographer was too lazy or disinterested to send them.

But it (apparently) doesn't matter....They are not about to look at
my pictures or those of anyone else....That's my point....I doesn't matter a
damn how good the pictures are, because they refuse to look at them. they
are going to go with Ivan and his crew, because he could shovel the coal
harder and faster than anyone else could last month. They aren't interested
in artists, they are interested in anyone on their list who can "do the
beavers" because he could, "do the otters".
My point is that they are denying that photography is an art, and there
might be people who are better artists than the ones on their list. -
Because (I am assuming) they are too lazy to look at someone's work and
compare it to the work of the people they have on their list. - It's too
easy to just go with the names on their list.
I'm not complaining....For all I know, I might do the same thing, were I
they. I am just stating a fact. They are treating their "work" just like you
would treat people who shovel coal in Siberia.
Let me put it another way. Suppose the greatest artist that ever touched
a camera were to appear.....He took photographs that surpassed anything NG
had ever published, by an order of magnitude....The greatest phtographer of
all time.
NG would never know that this person existed....He doesn't happen to be
on their list....It isn't enough that he is the greatest photographer of all
time. It isn't enough that he posts his work, and tells NG where to go to
look at it.....They will never see it, because, HE ISN'T ON THEIR F******
LIST!!!

They don't live in a vacuum. If the people on the list go there for a
reason. If God's gift to photography suddenly arrived, NG would find
out about the person. A few months ago a guy from Australia or New
Zealand posted a bunch of really great wind-surfing shots. It was
obvious that not only was he a gift photographer, he also understood
windsurfing. He was starting to shoot for some small windsurfing
magazine. So, if you needed a photographer for a windsailing
assignment, do you take unsolicated emails from the internet or do you
go buy a few issues of windsurfing magazines and see who can do the
job.

If you (or your friend) want to get NG's attention, then go out, start
shooting, and make a name/reputation for yourself. There are
THOUSANDS of gifted photographers around. They are looking for those
that are beyond gifted but I would imagine they are also looking for
someone with some relevant experience.

So, if God's gift to photography were to instantly appear -- with no
experience and a weak portfolio, then no, NG probably wouldn't hire
him/her. But neither would anyone else. They'd be luck to catch a
gig at Olin Mills.

On Aug 14, 11:57 pm, Pat wrote:

Let's say you are NG and you want to do a story on the beavers of
Upper Nowhere, Canada. What do you do. You pull out the file on the
guy who did a great job on the Otters of Upper Nowhere, Alaska. You
ask him if he can do beavers and tell him to get his passport ready.


They should hire me. I can do beavers!

On Aug 15, 9:48 am, Annika1980 wrote:
On Aug 14, 11:57 pm, Pat wrote:

Let's say you are NG and you want to do a story on the beavers of
Upper Nowhere, Canada. What do you do. You pull out the file on the
guy who did a great job on the Otters of Upper Nowhere, Alaska. You
ask him if he can do beavers and tell him to get his passport ready.

They should hire me. I can do beavers!

I bet you would! Pro-bono too!
Helen

wrote:
On Aug 15, 9:48 am, Annika1980 wrote:
On Aug 14, 11:57 pm, Pat wrote:

Let's say you are NG and you want to do a story on the beavers of
Upper Nowhere, Canada. What do you do. You pull out the file on the
guy who did a great job on the Otters of Upper Nowhere, Alaska. You
ask him if he can do beavers and tell him to get his passport ready.

They should hire me. I can do beavers!

I bet you would! Pro-bono too!

Ouch! Too many puns, making it too hard to follow.
s.
--
john mcwilliams

I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm
not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

Pat wrote:
On Aug 15, 2:19 am, "William Graham" wrote:
"Pat" wrote in message

Just out of curiosity, just how good are you? Can you post a link to
your best pictures? Let's see what NG turned down.

I wasn't asking for myself....I am 71, and am retired and not looking for
work.....

Then why did you write NG? Maybe they wouldn't look at the pictures
because the photographer was too lazy or disinterested to send them.

I think somewhere near the beginning of the thread William wrote he was
writing to NG on behalf of a young friend whose photography is pretty good.