Removing Edwal No Scratch

In article ,
Sam G wrote:
I have used NoScratch somewhat often. The cleaner I use that takes it off
is Ethol's Anti static Film Cleaner which is tetrachloroethelene (I think I
have the right chemical name). This is an organic type film cleaner I
bought from our local camera store about 5 years ago when they used to carry
a lot of darkroom supplies.

Ethol, or Edwal? My can of Edwal Anti Static Film Cleaner contains, says
its label, methyl chloroform and Dupont Zelek NK Anti-Stat. It seems
quite effective.

PEC-12 smells like methyl ethyl ketone to me.

--
Thor Lancelot Simon

"The inconsistency is startling, though admittedly, if consistency is to be
abandoned or transcended, there is no problem." - Noam Chomsky

My understanding of the PEC cleaner is that it's for removing water soluble
material. Not sure how it will work for NO Scratch.
Sam

I do a little camera repair work (nothing technical-mostly cleaning and
relubricating focus helicals) and haven't found anything better than
Ronsonol to do the degreasing job. It takes a little time and patience but
it works cleanly and doesn't cost an arm and leg. I also have both 90%
Isopropyl and 190 proof Everclear for cleaning other surfaces. Some gunk
responds better to one or the other.

--
darkroommike

----------
"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote in message
nk.net...
"Mike King" wrote

Someone needs do a little Google on PEC-12 for the msds and Good-off and
Goo-gone

I nominate Mike. My guess is you won't find out much, though: trade
secret, proprietary formula, contains four known carcinogens,
don't mix with hydrogen peroxide etc. etc. and not a clue to the
ingredient(s).

all smell the same (no I'm not sniffing ;-) but the odor from all
three is what I describe as persistent and very similar

Hmm, not to my nose. And I do a lot of work with solvents.

My guess:

"Goo-Gone" is citrus oil. I find it works really well at cleaning off
contact adhesive from price-tags, labels, sticky-tape. Doesn't
attack much, but some plastics don't get along with citrus oil.
I keep a big jug handy. Leaves a very thin oily film, soap and
water takes care of that. Made by 'Magic America', accept no
substitutes.

Goof-Off [or something like it] is nothing by xylene. Doesn't
remove squat. Leaves a residue: it's not even decent xylene.
Scam - don't buy it. Xylene is good for some things nothing
else is good for, though I can't think of one off the top
of my head. Most proprietary cleaners have some xylene in
them. If you need Xylene get it from the hardware
store for 1/10th the price and 10x the quality.

and not too different from the "banana oil" type nail
polish remover

Ah, that's acetone or acetone in oil. Acetone, banana
and wintergreen are all very similar esters IIRC.

which I suspect is much more active

Acetone _is_ pretty volatile.

I found the best place to get solvents is the paint department of
a good hardware store/Builders' Depot|Square etc. 'Sunnyside'
[what a name for a solvent co.] is a good brand, no residues,
it all evaporates at the same time.

The autoparts store is a good source. The problem is most of
the solvents are some witches brew of benzenes, ketones, ethers ...
and any other toxic industrial byproduct that needs to be dumped.

Ronsinol and Zippo lighter fluids are good at removing old oil
and grease - ask Ed Romney's ghost.

darkroommike
laboratorynick

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm

Here's a source for PEC-12 and a description of what it's maker says it is
for:


http://apps.webcreate.com/ecom/catal...roductID=18103

"Cleans all slides, negatives and prints, both B/W and color, of hardened
gelatin emulsions. Removes finger prints, oils, ball point ink, adhesive
residue, fungus, laser separation oil and most permanent markers. Archival;
contains no water; dries instantly and leaves no residue."

BTW it does nothing, nada, zip when trying to remove water soluble marker or
dyes from prints. But will take off solvent based marker (Sharpie TM)
usually in one swipe.




--
darkroommike

----------
"Sam G" wrote in message
...
My understanding of the PEC cleaner is that it's for removing water
soluble
material. Not sure how it will work for NO Scratch.
Sam

"Mike" wrote

I was framing a print on Kodak Metallic Endura paper (similar to the
Fujiflex). I was blowing a fleck of dust off the print before putting the
glass on, and I accidently blew some spit on the print. I immediately
wiped it up with cotton. Left a spot. I then tried PEC-12. Spot still
there.

PEC-12 doesn't work on water based [ionic] dirt. It works on oil and
solvent based dirt.

I would try water or alcohol.

Cripes, is my spit acidic or what?!

~ 6+ to 7+, [_very_ slightly acid to _very_ slightly base],
usually hangs around 7.4 - about the pH of blood etc. Varies
with blood gas and vintage.

Spit is loaded with enzymes for digesting food, generally for
breaking down starches. I don't know if some of them will
digest gelatin [protein], but I wouldn't be surprised.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm

Oops. Thanks for the correction. Haven't used the stuff in a long time.

Sam
"

Mike King spake thus:

I do a little camera repair work (nothing technical-mostly cleaning and
relubricating focus helicals) and haven't found anything better than
Ronsonol to do the degreasing job. It takes a little time and patience but
it works cleanly and doesn't cost an arm and leg. I also have both 90%
Isopropyl and 190 proof Everclear for cleaning other surfaces. Some gunk
responds better to one or the other.

I do the same. Regarding lighter fluid, next time you're in a home
improvement store, pick up a bottle of regular charcoal lighter fluid
and compare the price to Ronsonol. Basically the same stuff but a hell
of a lot cheaper. I use it (the cheap fluid) to clean all kinds of
stuff, including lens helicals.

My other two weapons of choice are denatured alcohol, as you use, and
acetone (lacquer thinner) for really hard-to-remove gunk. Must only use
the latter with good ventilation, though.


--
.... asked to comment on Michigan governor George Romney's remark that
the army had "brainwashed" him in Vietnam—-a remark which knocked Romney
out of the running for the Republican nomination—-McCarthy quipped,
"I think in that case a light rinse would have been sufficient."

(Eugene McCarthy, onetime candidate for POTUS)

"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Richard Knoppow" wrote

The current replacements for toxic film cleaners are,
I
believe, supposed to be used in machines with automatic
fume
recovery. Very pure (dry) Isoproply alcohol seems to be
the
best alternative right now even though its not completely
satisfactory.

What happened to PEC-12? Or doesn't it remove Edwal goo?

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm

I'm not sure what is in this stuff, the MSDS says its
proprietary. For some reason I think its probably alcohol
although I can't remember where I got this idea. Enough
people vouch for it so that its certainly worth a try.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
...
Mike King spake thus:

I do a little camera repair work (nothing
technical-mostly cleaning and
relubricating focus helicals) and haven't found anything
better than
Ronsonol to do the degreasing job. It takes a little
time and patience but
it works cleanly and doesn't cost an arm and leg. I also
have both 90%
Isopropyl and 190 proof Everclear for cleaning other
surfaces. Some gunk
responds better to one or the other.

I do the same. Regarding lighter fluid, next time you're
in a home improvement store, pick up a bottle of regular
charcoal lighter fluid and compare the price to Ronsonol.
Basically the same stuff but a hell of a lot cheaper. I
use it (the cheap fluid) to clean all kinds of stuff,
including lens helicals.

My other two weapons of choice are denatured alcohol, as
you use, and acetone (lacquer thinner) for really
hard-to-remove gunk. Must only use the latter with good
ventilation, though.


Ronsonol is Naptha. Naptha is available from
paint/hardware/home improvement stores. Ronsonol appears to
be pretty pure and does not leave a residue.
Be careful of denatured alcohol, the denaturants or often
substances like Acetone which can attack some plastics. Pure
(dry) Isopropyl is a good degreaser and does not leave a
residue. You can get 99% Isopropyl at many drugstores. 91%
is not dry enough, it will streak film and leave too much
water behind when used for cleaning parts (like shutters).
Dry Alcohol absorbs water readily until it reaches 91% so
99% must be used fairly quickly after opening the container.
A good routine for shutter and other parts is to clean
first with Naptha and then rinse with Isopropyl.
Avoid solvents like Acetone and Xylol, they are too broad
and will attack many plastics and paints.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Thor Lancelot Simon" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Sam G wrote:
I have used NoScratch somewhat often. The cleaner I use
that takes it off
is Ethol's Anti static Film Cleaner which is
tetrachloroethelene (I think I
have the right chemical name). This is an organic type
film cleaner I
bought from our local camera store about 5 years ago when
they used to carry
a lot of darkroom supplies.

Ethol, or Edwal? My can of Edwal Anti Static Film Cleaner
contains, says
its label, methyl chloroform and Dupont Zelek NK
Anti-Stat. It seems
quite effective.

PEC-12 smells like methyl ethyl ketone to me.

--
Thor Lancelot Simon



Methyl Chloroform is another name for
1,1,1,trichloroethane. I think you must have an old bottle.
If Edwal cleaner containing trichlor is still available I
would be surprized because it would require a haz mat
shipping charge. However, if true it would be a first choice
for film cleaning. I also have old bottles of this stuff but
haven't checked to see if its still available.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA