The End of Agfa Photo

Just looking for other D-lab owners who may have heard something about
the future of Agfa Photo or "A and O". I currently own 2 d-labs and
have recently quit making my lease payments based on the idea that I
may not be able to get parts / service on these labs 2 months or even 2
years from now making machines worth nothing. It sounds like "A and O"
has snapped up the lab division of Agfa Photo but may only continue to
sell parts until the supply is used up. I read that they will even
part out the remaining 360 partially completed labs on the assembly
line rather then finish building them. This would likely mean that
they will try to collect on the current outstanding leases while trying
to continue to provide service / parts during the terms of the leases.
When the leases expire or they run out of parts (whichever comes
first), then they would be forced to break the remaining leases and
run. I believe they have no intention to continue to service these
machines 4 years from now again making my machines worth next to
nothing at that point. I figure that my lease with a $1 buyout at the
end is not worth the monthly payment any longer if the machine will not
be worth close to $80,000 used like it otherwise would have. I am
mainly wondering what other D-lab owners are hearing and doing
regarding this matter. Please post your comments.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Just looking for other D-lab owners who may have heard
something about
the future of Agfa Photo or "A and O". I currently own 2
d-labs and
have recently quit making my lease payments based on the
idea that I
may not be able to get parts / service on these labs 2
months or even 2
years from now making machines worth nothing. It sounds
like "A and O"
has snapped up the lab division of Agfa Photo but may only
continue to
sell parts until the supply is used up. I read that they
will even
part out the remaining 360 partially completed labs on the
assembly
line rather then finish building them. This would likely
mean that
they will try to collect on the current outstanding leases
while trying
to continue to provide service / parts during the terms of
the leases.
When the leases expire or they run out of parts (whichever
comes
first), then they would be forced to break the remaining
leases and
run. I believe they have no intention to continue to
service these
machines 4 years from now again making my machines worth
next to
nothing at that point. I figure that my lease with a $1
buyout at the
end is not worth the monthly payment any longer if the
machine will not
be worth close to $80,000 used like it otherwise would
have. I am
mainly wondering what other D-lab owners are hearing and
doing
regarding this matter. Please post your comments.

Things are a bit up in the air right now but it appears
that Fuji-Hunt will provide support, or at least chemistry,
for these machines. The exact fate of Agfa Photo is still
not settled although it sure looks like it will be dissolved
(no pun intended).


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

wrote in message
oups.com...
Just looking for other D-lab owners who may have heard something about
the future of Agfa Photo or "A and O". I currently own 2 d-labs and
have recently quit making my lease payments based on the idea that I
may not be able to get parts / service on these labs 2 months or even 2
years from now making machines worth nothing. It sounds like "A and O"
has snapped up the lab division of Agfa Photo but may only continue to
sell parts until the supply is used up. I read that they will even
part out the remaining 360 partially completed labs on the assembly
line rather then finish building them. This would likely mean that
they will try to collect on the current outstanding leases while trying
to continue to provide service / parts during the terms of the leases.
When the leases expire or they run out of parts (whichever comes
first), then they would be forced to break the remaining leases and
run. I believe they have no intention to continue to service these
machines 4 years from now again making my machines worth next to
nothing at that point. I figure that my lease with a $1 buyout at the
end is not worth the monthly payment any longer if the machine will not
be worth close to $80,000 used like it otherwise would have. I am
mainly wondering what other D-lab owners are hearing and doing
regarding this matter. Please post your comments.


Until they default on the contract, you are obligated to make the lease
payments.

However, it may pay to take the offensive. Send them a certified letter --
to the general counsel of AgfaUSA-- notifying them that they are in
potential default under the terms of your lease, that their actions may
constitute a breach of contract, etc., etc. -- a lawyer will do this for
you for about $300.

If you don't want to pay, and don't provide them with notice, they will do
is your "defaulted" receivable" to a collection company...they will send
you the correct number of notices that you are in default and when you don't
pay they will seek a judgment in court. It's a real mess.

In article , Johnson
wrote:

Until they default on the contract, you are obligated to make the lease
payments.

What he said. Unless and until they actually fail to provide something
as per agreement, simply stopping payments will start a world of
trouble rolling your way - and seriously weaken your position in
anything that happens later on.

Johnson wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Just looking for other D-lab owners who may have heard something about
the future of Agfa Photo or "A and O". I currently own 2 d-labs and
have recently quit making my lease payments based on the idea that I
may not be able to get parts / service on these labs 2 months or even 2
years from now making machines worth nothing. It sounds like "A and O"
has snapped up the lab division of Agfa Photo but may only continue to
sell parts until the supply is used up. I read that they will even
part out the remaining 360 partially completed labs on the assembly
line rather then finish building them. This would likely mean that
they will try to collect on the current outstanding leases while trying
to continue to provide service / parts during the terms of the leases.
When the leases expire or they run out of parts (whichever comes
first), then they would be forced to break the remaining leases and
run. I believe they have no intention to continue to service these
machines 4 years from now again making my machines worth next to
nothing at that point. I figure that my lease with a $1 buyout at the
end is not worth the monthly payment any longer if the machine will not
be worth close to $80,000 used like it otherwise would have. I am
mainly wondering what other D-lab owners are hearing and doing
regarding this matter. Please post your comments.


Until they default on the contract, you are obligated to make the lease
payments.

However, it may pay to take the offensive. Send them a certified letter --
to the general counsel of AgfaUSA-- notifying them that they are in
potential default under the terms of your lease, that their actions may
constitute a breach of contract, etc., etc. -- a lawyer will do this for
you for about $300.

If you don't want to pay, and don't provide them with notice, they will do
is your "defaulted" receivable" to a collection company...they will send
you the correct number of notices that you are in default and when you don't
pay they will seek a judgment in court. It's a real mess.

Thanks for the reply. If I send them a letter it will most certainly
force them to react to my stop payment much sooner then they otherwise
would. They are extremely short staffed with the major layoffs that
occured 2 Fridays ago and may not have the man power to come after me
if I lay low. By the time they get around to legal action with me they
may have already defaulted on their end of the lease. Also it is
taking them 6 days to send a tech to fix both my d-labs and I've had
ongoing problems for months with one of them. Could I also argue that
I may have gotten a "lemon"? Please advise.

digifotopro wrote:
Johnson wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Just looking for other D-lab owners who may have heard something about
the future of Agfa Photo or "A and O". I currently own 2 d-labs and
have recently quit making my lease payments based on the idea that I
may not be able to get parts / service on these labs 2 months or even 2
years from now making machines worth nothing. It sounds like "A and O"
has snapped up the lab division of Agfa Photo but may only continue to
sell parts until the supply is used up. I read that they will even
part out the remaining 360 partially completed labs on the assembly
line rather then finish building them. This would likely mean that
they will try to collect on the current outstanding leases while trying
to continue to provide service / parts during the terms of the leases.
When the leases expire or they run out of parts (whichever comes
first), then they would be forced to break the remaining leases and
run. I believe they have no intention to continue to service these
machines 4 years from now again making my machines worth next to
nothing at that point. I figure that my lease with a $1 buyout at the
end is not worth the monthly payment any longer if the machine will not
be worth close to $80,000 used like it otherwise would have. I am
mainly wondering what other D-lab owners are hearing and doing
regarding this matter. Please post your comments.


Until they default on the contract, you are obligated to make the lease
payments.

However, it may pay to take the offensive. Send them a certified letter --
to the general counsel of AgfaUSA-- notifying them that they are in
potential default under the terms of your lease, that their actions may
constitute a breach of contract, etc., etc. -- a lawyer will do this for
you for about $300.

If you don't want to pay, and don't provide them with notice, they will do
is your "defaulted" receivable" to a collection company...they will send
you the correct number of notices that you are in default and when you don't
pay they will seek a judgment in court. It's a real mess.

Thanks for the reply. If I send them a letter it will most certainly
force them to react to my stop payment much sooner then they otherwise
would. They are extremely short staffed with the major layoffs that
occured 2 Fridays ago and may not have the man power to come after me
if I lay low. By the time they get around to legal action with me they
may have already defaulted on their end of the lease. Also it is
taking them 6 days to send a tech to fix both my d-labs and I've had
ongoing problems for months with one of them. Could I also argue that
I may have gotten a "lemon"? Please advise.

Here is my take everyone.

You are just throwing money away by continuing to make your lease
payment.

The company is done!

No one is going to continue to honor your service contract. The
company that bought up all of the parts may try to make a go at selling
them on the open market but your service contract is going to be
worthless in a few weeks. Anyone who ownes a D-Lab realizes that the
machine without a service contract is worthless! I'm sure there will
be a few who try to keep their machines going for as long as they can,
but IMO that is just a waste of money. These machines are extremely
expensive to maintain. In fact the service contracts are likely a big
reason Agfaphoto went under in the first place.

I would advise everone who ownes a DLab to stop making your payment and
start looking for another lab. Maybe someone will come out and get
your D-Lab, but my guess is that you'll end up scraping it yourselves.
No one is likely to come and get it. Why would they? Eventually the
supply of parts will run out (likely pretty damned fast) and the
machines will be worthless.

Consider this. Lets assume that the leasing company sent you a letter
stating that you know own your machine. They agree to just give it to
you. But the catch is that there is no longer going to be a service
contract available. How long will you continue to put parts into it
out of your own pocket? My experience with mine is that they cost
about $40k a year or more just to maintain! (I'm averaging a laser
unit per year alone) At that rate it isn't worth keeping them.

My guess is that this company that bought up the parts is not planning
to manufacture them again unless their plan is to simply supply Kodak
for their SRP 30's. But in either case, it doesn't really matter.
They sure as hell aren't planning to honor our service contracts.

Start looking at Fronteir's or Noritsu's ASAP is what I suggest we all
do, and for heaven's sakes, stop paying them!

Sure, technically we can't do that. But that is the prudent thing to
do everyone. The company is bankrupt! Why pad the bottom line of
their creditors any more. Once they are gone, nobody's going to be
looking out for us. Once they quit honoring the service contracts and
no one is available to come out and fix your machine (maybe just before
the holiday rush), who are you going to go after for damages? Will it
make you feel any better that their is another company out there sell
parts for your D-lab for cash? Who is really going to shell out $25K
to relace their lasers the next time they go out?

Start protecting yourself ASAP!!!!!!!!!

Just my 2 cents.


Troy

BTW It should be noted that I am Donald's brother and partner. He is
the original poster.

In article . com,
"Troy" wrote:

You are just throwing money away by continuing to make your lease
payment.

If you entered into a legal contract you can't unilaterally stop making
payments. You are bound by the terms of your contract or the lease
holder can take legal action against you. If the contract is held by
Agfa then they will come after you just to close the Corporation.

If there is a clause in your lease that states that the lease can be
ended if there is a material change in the financial condition of either
party or that the lease can be remade upon a substantial change in the
financial party then you may have grounds for stopping payment.

Or if there is a clause that spells out what happens if either party
defaults on their obligations under the lease then you may have grounds
for canceling payments.

But if you signed a standard boiler plate lease then you probably do not
have any right to unilaterally stop payments. To protect yourself you
had best have an experienced attorney check your contract so you know
exactly what your rights are.

You may find that rather then simply stop paying on the lease that you
have to put the payments into an escrow account while the
responsibilities of Agfa or it's successors are ironed out. Especially
as there were press reports last week that the manufacturer of Agfa's
labs will take over the sales and service responsibility for the
machines and other chemistry and paper suppliers have indicated that
they will fill the supply lines for these items and lastly that US
distributors for Agfa chemistry and paper for the minilabs have
indicated that they have several months supply in stock.
You may want to read last week's PMA News Line for updated info.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

I

Thanks for the reply. If I send them a letter it will most certainly
force them to react to my stop payment much sooner then they otherwise
would. They are extremely short staffed with the major layoffs that
occured 2 Fridays ago and may not have the man power to come after me
if I lay low. By the time they get around to legal action with me they
may have already defaulted on their end of the lease. Also it is
taking them 6 days to send a tech to fix both my d-labs and I've had
ongoing problems for months with one of them. Could I also argue that
I may have gotten a "lemon"? Please advise.

1. Don't look for free advice on Usenet.

2. See your lawyer- Monday morning!

3. Rinse, lather, repeat.

raoul

On 6 Nov 2005 13:53:17 -0800, "Troy"
wrote:

My guess is that this company that bought up the parts is not planning
to manufacture them again unless their plan is to simply supply Kodak
for their SRP 30's. But in either case, it doesn't really matter.
They sure as hell aren't planning to honor our service contracts.

That kinda depends upon the agreement. They may have bought up the
service contracts. In fact most warranties provided here in the US are
rarely supported by the manufacturer after the government passed the
Nexus legislation. The company I work for "sells off" the warranties
to a third party. Essentially that company provides services for
several OEM's and also they have about 50% of their staff as
contractors. The parts are ordered by our in-house techs and shipped
to the warranty company who disperses them to the appropriate rep. All
we're out is the shipping, receiveing and warehousing of the parts.

===

Regards,

John Douglas - Formula, Documents & Manuals for the Silver Darkroom
Websites : http://www.darkroompro.com - http://www.puresilver.org