OT iOS8.1

In article , PeterN
wrote:

I know this is an unrelated topic, but privacy is very important to me.

I am informaing all on this list that in order to use Siri with iOS 8.1,
I have to give Apple permission to use my contacts & other personal
information for what amounts to whatever it wants to.

you obviously didn't read apple's privacy policy or security
documentation, where they explain exactly what information the collect
and what it's used for.

you also don't understand the difference between an *app* accessing the
data and apple accessing and keeping the data.

in this case, siri needs access to your contacts so 'call bob' knows
who to call. it does not send bob's info (or yours) to apple, but it
does need access to contacts to find out bob's phone number to be able
to call him.

siri also wants to know your name so references to you can be handled
properly.

if you don't need that functionality, you can say no to accessing
contacts. the choice is yours. all that will happen is that part won't
work.

siri also uses random identifiers each time you turn it on, which are
discarded when you turn it off.

furthermore, any data sent to apple is discarded after 10 minutes, such
as your location to determine the closest restaurant or gas station.

that lets you search for something and then get additional information
moments later, but beyond 10 minutes, it has no idea you searched for
it.

siri also only requests info if it's needed for a question. if you only
ask for the weather, it doesn't request your exact location because a
rough location (e.g., new york city, chicago) is sufficient, but if you
ask for the nearest gas station, it has to know more than just the
city.

but why let facts get in the way of an ignorant rant.

My above statement about the existence of this problem was confirmed in
a telelphone conversation with both support and customer service. I will
post Apple's response when I receive it.

it's not a problem at all.

either the person with whom you spoke didn't understand what you asked
(or you didn't understand it yourself) or they're misinformed.

the question you think you're asking has already been answered by apple
and is available at their web site, for those who want actual answers
rather than spewing misinformation.

While I have not heard of how Apple abusing this information, it can.

apple is legally bound to their privacy policy, as is any company. you
did read it, didn't you?

if you think they've violated it, feel free to take them to court. you
do know how to do that, don't you?

if you don't like the terms of their privacy policy, feel free to say
no to the request to access contacts or whatever other information you
do not want shared or cease using the device altogether. some features
may not work properly if you decline full access (and for obvious
reasons), but the choice is yours.

There is absolutely no operational reason for a local app to send
personal information to Apple.

there can be, and the circumstances and what info is sent is fully
disclosed. you didn't bother looking.

in any event, if you don't want information sent, then configure the
phone to not send it by disabling access to whatever information you
don't want sent. very simple.

however, if you do that, some features may not fully function. for
instance, you can't find out where the nearest gas station is or get
turn by turn directions to someplace if it doesn't know where you are.
if you say 'call bob' and it can't access your contacts, it won't know
who bob is.

unlike other mobile devices, iphone users are *always* in control and
they have very fine granularity about what information is accessible
and what is not.

don't blame apple for your own decisions or not reading what goes on
under the hood.

I am putting on my fire resistant suit to protect me from the flames
from the fanbois.

it's not the fanbois who will be flaming you, and they'll be flaming
you for reasons other than you expect.

Typical response from you. Do learn to read.

typical response from you - content free and with your usual
bull****ting.

not only do i know how to read, but i actually *read* apple's security
documentation, something you clearly did not do.

Apple actually confirmed
the issue I stated in my posting, exactly as I stated it.

whomever you spoke with is wrong or you didn't ask what you thought you
asked.

what data apple gets and how long they keep it documented and published
and it's *not* what you claim it to be or what you say apple told you
it is.

Apparently I
got through to the right person at Apple.

apparently not.

Although I never agreed to
thoughs terms,

bull****. you *must* give consent for an app to have access to user
data.

Siri now functions without asking my consent.

you gave it consent, which you can revoke at any time.

Do stop being an A-hole. There is probably not the remotest chance of that.

it's not me who is being the a-hole.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

I know this is an unrelated topic, but privacy is very important to me.

I am informaing all on this list that in order to use Siri with iOS
8.1, I have to give Apple permission to use my contacts & other
personal information for what amounts to whatever it wants to.

How else is Siri going to know that when you say; "Call Bucky" or "Call
Mabel", or Call home" what number to call?

Of course. But prior versions did not transmit my contact list to
Apple, for apple to use "subject to its privacy terms."


The same thing applies if you use Facetime, and guess what, Skype wants
access to your contacts, as does GMail.

I use none of those apps. And that's irrelevant to what Apple does.
When you were on the job and stopped a speeder, did you consider his
statement thaat other cars were speeding too, as a valid reason?


My above statement about the existence of this problem was confirmed
in a telelphone conversation with both support and customer service. I
will post Apple's response when I receive it.

It isn't a problem, and that access to your contacts isn't actually
transmitted to Apple, it is used by the App, sandbaged within your
phone.

Did you read the consent needed to use SIRI to dictate a memo, or an
email?


While I have not heard of how Apple abusing this information, it can.

They don't.


Agreed, but they can.

There is absolutely no operational reason for a local app to send
personal information to Apple.

The other area where iOS8.1 uses information you input is with the new
predictive keyboard.

I am putting on my fire resistant suit to protect me from the flames
from the fanbois.

Just don't panic, and reach for your tin foil hat, there is no Apple
conspiracy to obtain your personal information.

I don't want to give them the right to.


If you check settings and look at location services, you can turn them
off for specific apps, or specify conditions of use. For example, I see
no reason for CNN or CNN INT, NBC News to need my location for other
than directing local advertising at me.
Not every app needs to have access to the camera or microphone, and that
can be set in settings.

I am only talking about Siri, when replying to, or sending a text
message, email, to do list, etc.

Please note that my statement above of the use of Siri, was also
confirmed by Apple. You are free to check this for yousef. Just call
Apple support.

Then don't use Siri.

Personally I find Siri, or any of these voice interface apps, annoying
and can live without it.


As I posted to nosense, Apple has fixed my issue, after I reached the
right person at Apple.

they didn't fix anything. nothing at their end changed.

*you* determine what gets sent and when and what is sent isn't what you
claim it is either.

I have been involved with speech to text since the first publication of
Dragon Dictate version 1. I used to do a ton of consulting work for
various companies in that business, including the original Dragon,
Phillips, L&H and IBM. I am quite

you are quite incapable of finishing a post properly.

l&h, eh? so you were involved when they cooked their books and gaston
was arrested? why am i not surprised.

In article 2014102418390317562-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

Then don't use Siri.

Personally I find Siri, or any of these voice interface apps, annoying
and can live without it.


As I posted to nosense, Apple has fixed my issue, after I reached the
right person at Apple.

I have been involved with speech to text since the first publication of
Dragon Dictate version 1. I used to do a ton of consulting work for
various companies in that business, including the original Dragon,
Phillips, L&H and IBM. I am quite

You are quite what?

i have a lengthy list of words that can finish the sentence.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

On 10/24/2014 5:29 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

I know this is an unrelated topic, but privacy is very important to me.

I am informaing all on this list that in order to use Siri with iOS
8.1, I have to give Apple permission to use my contacts & other
personal information for what amounts to whatever it wants to.

How else is Siri going to know that when you say; "Call Bucky" or "Call
Mabel", or Call home" what number to call?

Of course. But prior versions did not transmit my contact list to Apple,
for apple to use "subject to its privacy terms."

siri does not transmit your contact list to apple.

where the hell did you get that ridiculous idea???

The same thing applies if you use Facetime, and guess what, Skype wants
access to your contacts, as does GMail.

I use none of those apps.

they're examples.

plenty of apps access personal data and in *every* *single* *case*, the
user must confirm it.

And that's irrelevant to what Apple does.

it's very relevant.

When
you were on the job and stopped a speeder, did you consider his
statement thaat other cars were speeding too, as a valid reason?

bogus analogy.

a better analogy is if *you* were stopped for speeding and you said to
the cop "you don't need that information."

My above statement about the existence of this problem was confirmed
in a telelphone conversation with both support and customer service. I
will post Apple's response when I receive it.

It isn't a problem, and that access to your contacts isn't actually
transmitted to Apple, it is used by the App, sandbaged within your phone.

Did you read the consent needed to use SIRI to dictate a memo, or an email?

you obviously did not.

While I have not heard of how Apple abusing this information, it can.

They don't.

Agreed, but they can.

so what?

anyone can abuse all sorts of information.

either you trust apple and the authors of the apps you use or you
don't. if you don't, then stop using the device *now*.

online sellers have your name, address, credit card # and in some
cases, a copy of your license or passport where there might be a
potential for fraud. that's a *lot* of information that can easily be
abused, but it isn't.

nevertheless, you can block data from being sent if you don't want them
to have it.

it's up to you.

There is absolutely no operational reason for a local app to send
personal information to Apple.

The other area where iOS8.1 uses information you input is with the new
predictive keyboard.

I am putting on my fire resistant suit to protect me from the flames
from the fanbois.

Just don't panic, and reach for your tin foil hat, there is no Apple
conspiracy to obtain your personal information.

I don't want to give them the right to.

then disable access to whatever you don't want shared.

or feel free to switch to android, where you have *less* control over
what gets sent. unlike apple, google makes money from your information
and will collect all sorts of stuff, whether you like it or not.

If you check settings and look at location services, you can turn them
off for specific apps, or specify conditions of use. For example, I see
no reason for CNN or CNN INT, NBC News to need my location for other
than directing local advertising at me.
Not every app needs to have access to the camera or microphone, and that
can be set in settings.

I am only talking about Siri, when replying to, or sending a text
message, email, to do list, etc.

Please note that my statement above of the use of Siri, was also
confirmed by Apple. You are free to check this for yousef. Just call
Apple support.

no it wasn't.

You heard the entire conversation?

don't need to.

what you said is wrong, therefore whatever you were told is not any
form of confirmation.

again, info is *on* apple's website.

try reading their security policy, where exactly what is sent and what
it's used for is fully disclosed.


Do learn to read.

already have.

looks like it's *you* who needs to learn to read, since you have yet to
actually do that with any amount of competency.

apple support are mostly minimum wage workers who read from a script
and most of the time don't even understand what it is they're saying.

Prove that statement. Strange I, casually know somone in Apple support.
(He is the son=in-law of one of my friends.) He makes far more than
minimum wage. Unless you consider a salary well in excess of 100k,
minimum wage.

he's not on the front line.

the point is that they are not technical experts and they are not
always correct. they're there for the simple stuff, like how to use the
app store or reformat a drive.

On 10/24/2014 9:39 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-10-25 01:33:12 +0000, PeterN said:

On 10/24/2014 5:17 PM, Savageduck wrote:

Le Snip

Then don't use Siri.

Personally I find Siri, or any of these voice interface apps, annoying
and can live without it.


As I posted to nosense, Apple has fixed my issue, after I reached the
right person at Apple.

I have been involved with speech to text since the first publication
of Dragon Dictate version 1. I used to do a ton of consulting work for
various companies in that business, including the original Dragon,
Phillips, L&H and IBM. I am quite

You are quite what?

Sorry, sent too soon. that should have read: I am quite familiar with
speech to text, from a business and user POV. I used to write macros for
the Dragon and L&H product, for legal, business and medical use.

--
PeterN

On 10/24/2014 9:50 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

I know this is an unrelated topic, but privacy is very important to me.

I am informaing all on this list that in order to use Siri with iOS
8.1, I have to give Apple permission to use my contacts & other
personal information for what amounts to whatever it wants to.

How else is Siri going to know that when you say; "Call Bucky" or "Call
Mabel", or Call home" what number to call?

Of course. But prior versions did not transmit my contact list to
Apple, for apple to use "subject to its privacy terms."


The same thing applies if you use Facetime, and guess what, Skype wants
access to your contacts, as does GMail.

I use none of those apps. And that's irrelevant to what Apple does.
When you were on the job and stopped a speeder, did you consider his
statement thaat other cars were speeding too, as a valid reason?


My above statement about the existence of this problem was confirmed
in a telelphone conversation with both support and customer service. I
will post Apple's response when I receive it.

It isn't a problem, and that access to your contacts isn't actually
transmitted to Apple, it is used by the App, sandbaged within your
phone.

Did you read the consent needed to use SIRI to dictate a memo, or an
email?


While I have not heard of how Apple abusing this information, it can.

They don't.


Agreed, but they can.

There is absolutely no operational reason for a local app to send
personal information to Apple.

The other area where iOS8.1 uses information you input is with the new
predictive keyboard.

I am putting on my fire resistant suit to protect me from the flames
from the fanbois.

Just don't panic, and reach for your tin foil hat, there is no Apple
conspiracy to obtain your personal information.

I don't want to give them the right to.


If you check settings and look at location services, you can turn them
off for specific apps, or specify conditions of use. For example, I see
no reason for CNN or CNN INT, NBC News to need my location for other
than directing local advertising at me.
Not every app needs to have access to the camera or microphone, and that
can be set in settings.

I am only talking about Siri, when replying to, or sending a text
message, email, to do list, etc.

Please note that my statement above of the use of Siri, was also
confirmed by Apple. You are free to check this for yousef. Just call
Apple support.

Then don't use Siri.

Personally I find Siri, or any of these voice interface apps, annoying
and can live without it.


As I posted to nosense, Apple has fixed my issue, after I reached the
right person at Apple.

they didn't fix anything. nothing at their end changed.

*you* determine what gets sent and when and what is sent isn't what you
claim it is either.

I have been involved with speech to text since the first publication of
Dragon Dictate version 1. I used to do a ton of consulting work for
various companies in that business, including the original Dragon,
Phillips, L&H and IBM. I am quite

you are quite incapable of finishing a post properly.

l&h, eh? so you were involved when they cooked their books and gaston
was arrested? why am i not surprised.

Added to my list for when I decide to find out who you really are and
see whether my pursuit of remedies wod be worthwhile. Most likely it
would not be.


--
PeterN

On 10/24/2014 9:50 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

On 10/24/2014 5:29 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

I know this is an unrelated topic, but privacy is very important to me.

I am informaing all on this list that in order to use Siri with iOS
8.1, I have to give Apple permission to use my contacts & other
personal information for what amounts to whatever it wants to.

How else is Siri going to know that when you say; "Call Bucky" or "Call
Mabel", or Call home" what number to call?

Of course. But prior versions did not transmit my contact list to Apple,
for apple to use "subject to its privacy terms."

siri does not transmit your contact list to apple.

where the hell did you get that ridiculous idea???

The same thing applies if you use Facetime, and guess what, Skype wants
access to your contacts, as does GMail.

I use none of those apps.

they're examples.

plenty of apps access personal data and in *every* *single* *case*, the
user must confirm it.

And that's irrelevant to what Apple does.

it's very relevant.

When
you were on the job and stopped a speeder, did you consider his
statement thaat other cars were speeding too, as a valid reason?

bogus analogy.

a better analogy is if *you* were stopped for speeding and you said to
the cop "you don't need that information."

My above statement about the existence of this problem was confirmed
in a telelphone conversation with both support and customer service. I
will post Apple's response when I receive it.

It isn't a problem, and that access to your contacts isn't actually
transmitted to Apple, it is used by the App, sandbaged within your phone.

Did you read the consent needed to use SIRI to dictate a memo, or an email?

you obviously did not.

While I have not heard of how Apple abusing this information, it can.

They don't.

Agreed, but they can.

so what?

anyone can abuse all sorts of information.

either you trust apple and the authors of the apps you use or you
don't. if you don't, then stop using the device *now*.

online sellers have your name, address, credit card # and in some
cases, a copy of your license or passport where there might be a
potential for fraud. that's a *lot* of information that can easily be
abused, but it isn't.

nevertheless, you can block data from being sent if you don't want them
to have it.

it's up to you.

There is absolutely no operational reason for a local app to send
personal information to Apple.

The other area where iOS8.1 uses information you input is with the new
predictive keyboard.

I am putting on my fire resistant suit to protect me from the flames
from the fanbois.

Just don't panic, and reach for your tin foil hat, there is no Apple
conspiracy to obtain your personal information.

I don't want to give them the right to.

then disable access to whatever you don't want shared.

or feel free to switch to android, where you have *less* control over
what gets sent. unlike apple, google makes money from your information
and will collect all sorts of stuff, whether you like it or not.

If you check settings and look at location services, you can turn them
off for specific apps, or specify conditions of use. For example, I see
no reason for CNN or CNN INT, NBC News to need my location for other
than directing local advertising at me.
Not every app needs to have access to the camera or microphone, and that
can be set in settings.

I am only talking about Siri, when replying to, or sending a text
message, email, to do list, etc.

Please note that my statement above of the use of Siri, was also
confirmed by Apple. You are free to check this for yousef. Just call
Apple support.

no it wasn't.

You heard the entire conversation?

don't need to.

what you said is wrong, therefore whatever you were told is not any
form of confirmation.

again, info is *on* apple's website.

try reading their security policy, where exactly what is sent and what
it's used for is fully disclosed.


Do learn to read.

already have.

looks like it's *you* who needs to learn to read, since you have yet to
actually do that with any amount of competency.

apple support are mostly minimum wage workers who read from a script
and most of the time don't even understand what it is they're saying.

Prove that statement. Strange I, casually know somone in Apple support.
(He is the son=in-law of one of my friends.) He makes far more than
minimum wage. Unless you consider a salary well in excess of 100k,
minimum wage.

he's not on the front line.

the point is that they are not technical experts and they are not
always correct. they're there for the simple stuff, like how to use the
app store or reformat a drive.


response below:


--
PeterN

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 18:39:03 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-10-25 01:33:12 +0000, PeterN said:

On 10/24/2014 5:17 PM, Savageduck wrote:

Le Snip

Then don't use Siri.

Personally I find Siri, or any of these voice interface apps, annoying
and can live without it.


As I posted to nosense, Apple has fixed my issue, after I reached the
right person at Apple.

I have been involved with speech to text since the first publication of
Dragon Dictate version 1. I used to do a ton of consulting work for
various companies in that business, including the original Dragon,
Phillips, L&H and IBM. I am quite

You are quite what?

Lost for words?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 10/24/2014 9:50 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

I know this is an unrelated topic, but privacy is very important to me.

I am informaing all on this list that in order to use Siri with iOS 8.1,
I have to give Apple permission to use my contacts & other personal
information for what amounts to whatever it wants to.

you obviously didn't read apple's privacy policy or security
documentation, where they explain exactly what information the collect
and what it's used for.

you also don't understand the difference between an *app* accessing the
data and apple accessing and keeping the data.

in this case, siri needs access to your contacts so 'call bob' knows
who to call. it does not send bob's info (or yours) to apple, but it
does need access to contacts to find out bob's phone number to be able
to call him.

siri also wants to know your name so references to you can be handled
properly.

if you don't need that functionality, you can say no to accessing
contacts. the choice is yours. all that will happen is that part won't
work.

siri also uses random identifiers each time you turn it on, which are
discarded when you turn it off.

furthermore, any data sent to apple is discarded after 10 minutes, such
as your location to determine the closest restaurant or gas station.

that lets you search for something and then get additional information
moments later, but beyond 10 minutes, it has no idea you searched for
it.

siri also only requests info if it's needed for a question. if you only
ask for the weather, it doesn't request your exact location because a
rough location (e.g., new york city, chicago) is sufficient, but if you
ask for the nearest gas station, it has to know more than just the
city.

but why let facts get in the way of an ignorant rant.

My above statement about the existence of this problem was confirmed in
a telelphone conversation with both support and customer service. I will
post Apple's response when I receive it.

it's not a problem at all.

either the person with whom you spoke didn't understand what you asked
(or you didn't understand it yourself) or they're misinformed.

the question you think you're asking has already been answered by apple
and is available at their web site, for those who want actual answers
rather than spewing misinformation.

While I have not heard of how Apple abusing this information, it can.

apple is legally bound to their privacy policy, as is any company. you
did read it, didn't you?

if you think they've violated it, feel free to take them to court. you
do know how to do that, don't you?

if you don't like the terms of their privacy policy, feel free to say
no to the request to access contacts or whatever other information you
do not want shared or cease using the device altogether. some features
may not work properly if you decline full access (and for obvious
reasons), but the choice is yours.

There is absolutely no operational reason for a local app to send
personal information to Apple.

there can be, and the circumstances and what info is sent is fully
disclosed. you didn't bother looking.

in any event, if you don't want information sent, then configure the
phone to not send it by disabling access to whatever information you
don't want sent. very simple.

however, if you do that, some features may not fully function. for
instance, you can't find out where the nearest gas station is or get
turn by turn directions to someplace if it doesn't know where you are.
if you say 'call bob' and it can't access your contacts, it won't know
who bob is.

unlike other mobile devices, iphone users are *always* in control and
they have very fine granularity about what information is accessible
and what is not.

don't blame apple for your own decisions or not reading what goes on
under the hood.

I am putting on my fire resistant suit to protect me from the flames
from the fanbois.

it's not the fanbois who will be flaming you, and they'll be flaming
you for reasons other than you expect.

Typical response from you. Do learn to read.

typical response from you - content free and with your usual
bull****ting.

not only do i know how to read, but i actually *read* apple's security
documentation, something you clearly did not do.

Apple actually confirmed
the issue I stated in my posting, exactly as I stated it.

whomever you spoke with is wrong or you didn't ask what you thought you
asked.

what data apple gets and how long they keep it documented and published
and it's *not* what you claim it to be or what you say apple told you
it is.

Apparently I
got through to the right person at Apple.

apparently not.

Although I never agreed to
thoughs terms,

bull****. you *must* give consent for an app to have access to user
data.

Siri now functions without asking my consent.

you gave it consent, which you can revoke at any time.

Do stop being an A-hole. There is probably not the remotest chance of that.

it's not me who is being the a-hole.


Deserved response follows:

If you think I will get into a piwwing contest with you, think again.

--
PeterN

On 10/24/14 PDT, 1:56 PM, PeterN wrote:
On 10/24/2014 4:36 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-10-24 19:59:53 +0000, PeterN said:

I know this is an unrelated topic, but privacy is very important to me.

I am informaing all on this list that in order to use Siri with iOS
8.1, I have to give Apple permission to use my contacts & other
personal information for what amounts to whatever it wants to.

How else is Siri going to know that when you say; "Call Bucky" or "Call
Mabel", or Call home" what number to call?

Of course. But prior versions did not transmit my contact list to Apple,
for apple to use "subject to its privacy terms."

Why do you think Siri is transmitting anything to Apple when you say
"Call Bucky"?

And if they are, to what nefarious use might they be putting it?