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#11
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Image enlargement software
In article , Oregonian Haruspex
wrote: it depends why you're enlarging it and what you want to do with the result. if it's to be printed, let the printer do it. That is the easiest way, but it approaches using Photoshop as the worst way. First, this is highly printer dependent. Second, Photoshop gives you plenty of options when it comes to image resizing. yep. keep in mind that floyd has never actually used photoshop. |
#12
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Image enlargement software
nospam wrote:
In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote: What's currently the best way to enlarge an image with interpolation? it depends why you're enlarging it and what you want to do with the result. if it's to be printed, let the printer do it. That is the easiest way, but it approaches using Photoshop as the worst way. nope. the printer designers know far more about what is best than you do and photoshop is quite good at scaling. Got any more funny stories? Printer manufacturers and Adobe are about equal... and are near the botton of the list when it comes to resizing images for printing. your repeated jabs at photoshop not only show how ignorant you are about photoshop and what it can do, but just how jealous you are of quality software you can't use. Fanboi-ism is wonderful for you perhaps. more importantly, it's not possible to tell the difference without pixel peeping and even then, probably not. nobody is going to look at a print and say "you used the printer to scale it." That is probably true for anything you've ever actually printed! Assuming you've ever taken any photographs to begin with... -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/ Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
#13
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Image enlargement software
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 03:02:47 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Alfred Molon wrote: What's currently the best way to enlarge an image with interpolation? it depends why you're enlarging it and what you want to do with the result. if it's to be printed, let the printer do it. So you are saying that currently the best way to enlarge an image with interpolation is getting someone else to do it. Now, say that 'someone else' approached you and asked you what is currently the best way to enlarge an image with interpolation, what would your answer be? Are there some tools around which are better than others? yes. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#14
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Image enlargement software
In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote: What's currently the best way to enlarge an image with interpolation? it depends why you're enlarging it and what you want to do with the result. if it's to be printed, let the printer do it. That is the easiest way, but it approaches using Photoshop as the worst way. nope. the printer designers know far more about what is best than you do and photoshop is quite good at scaling. Got any more funny stories? Printer manufacturers and Adobe are about equal... and are near the botton of the list when it comes to resizing images for printing. not as funny as that one! do you seriously believe that printer makers and adobe know nothing about resizing? your repeated jabs at photoshop not only show how ignorant you are about photoshop and what it can do, but just how jealous you are of quality software you can't use. Fanboi-ism is wonderful for you perhaps. nothing fanboi about it. you have no idea what photoshop can do and must resort to bashing it to justify not being able to use it. more importantly, it's not possible to tell the difference without pixel peeping and even then, probably not. nobody is going to look at a print and say "you used the printer to scale it." That is probably true for anything you've ever actually printed! Assuming you've ever taken any photographs to begin with... plenty, but as usual, you're resorting to personal attacks rather than discussing the topic. |
#15
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Image enlargement software
On 2014-10-15 20:27:05 +0000, Alfred Molon said:
In article , Mayayana says... In any case, it will all boil down to adding in extra pixels to enlarge the image. The only difference I know of is in how many neighboring pixels are taken into account to decide the color value of a given added pixel. But (probably) some softwares are better at preserving edge sharpness, from what I remember. Some special algorithms to recognise edges and reconstruct/resharpen them when resizing. I believe I read this somewhere, but I can't remember where. I use Photoshop CC (2014) and it does a reasonable job of enlarging within limitations. That said when I am looking to enlarge to sizes beyond 13''x19'' from an original, or if I want to enlarge from a crop, or from a smaller original I use OnOne Software's "Perfect Resize". http://www.ononesoftware.com/products/resize9/ So here is a 9.4''x13.2'' finished PSD which I opened in OnOne "Perfect Resize" to enlarge to 21.36''x30''. The original 9.4''x13.2'' @ 25% open in photoshop: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_969.jpg The "Perfect Resize" workspace showing new enlargement settings to 21.36''x30''. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_967.jpg The enlarged version in Photoshop at 25%: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_968.jpg -- Regards, Savageduck |
#16
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Image enlargement software
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 03:02:47 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Alfred Molon wrote: What's currently the best way to enlarge an image with interpolation? it depends why you're enlarging it and what you want to do with the result. if it's to be printed, let the printer do it. Are there some tools around which are better than others? yes. I've already replied to this but I've finally worked out that when you wrote 'printer' you meant printer as a machine and not as a person. If you are after a high quality print, leaving it to the printer to enlarge the image is definitely not the best way. First, many printer drivers do nothing fancy in the way of pixel interpolation and all you may get is simple pixel interpolation. This is a particularly bad way to handle edges and sharp transitions within the image in that it scales up the softness of the original smaller image. That might not matter when the image is small but it probably will matter when the image is enlarged. Second, once you have fired off an image to the printer to be enlarged you have lost any opportunity to follow the enlargement with further retouching, sharpening etc. It's better to enlarge the image to it's final size in pixels at a relatively early stage in the work flow so that you have a better hope that what you see is what you will get. With most printers this is 300 pixels/dots per inch but Epson use 360 dots/pixels inch. [I expect that at this stage someone will be bursting to have a go at me about the difference between dots and pixels. The distinction is becoming increasingly confused by printers which have a native resolution of (say) 360 print-cells/inch and the ability to print (say) 64 dots, each of a different color, in each print cell. When you add to this the ability of print drivers to mix and match and even change print colors within print cells the connection between print dots and pixels becomes even more tenuous.] -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#17
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Image enlargement software
Eric Stevens wrote:
[I expect that at this stage someone will be bursting to have a go at me about ... Your entire article was dead on correct. The point is: don't send an image to a print driver that is not already re-sampled and sharpened at the printer's native PPI. At least not for the best possible results. But then again if it is being re-sampled using something like the Abobe bicubic filter, is may not make much difference... There are some very good articles by or about Professor Nicolas Robidoux at Laurentian University in Sudbury, ON Canada on optimal filters for resampling images. A Google search would be worth while for anyone interested in where the bleeding edge is at today. -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/ Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
#18
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Image enlargement software
On 2014-10-15 20:54:54 +0000, Eric Stevens said:
So you are saying that currently the best way to enlarge an image with interpolation is getting someone else to do it. Now, say that 'someone else' approached you and asked you what is currently the best way to enlarge an image with interpolation, what would your answer be? Listen, before the ink shoots out of the nozzles the printer is going to be doing its own transforms in both the geometric and color domains anyway, and it's just possible that the fellas who designed its mechanism and firmware knew what they were doing, no? I mean it's also possible (but not likely) that things might not turn out that great, but you can't just take it as a given that in-printer interpolation is worse than doing it yourself, because doing enlargement yourself in software is no guarantee that this combined with the printer's own transforms that it ALWAYS applies as a natural part of the printing process won't make things worse in the end. Each printer has its own character and you have to figure out the best workflow afresh if you change printers. |
#19
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Image enlargement software
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 16:23:11 -0700, Oregonian Haruspex
wrote: On 2014-10-15 20:54:54 +0000, Eric Stevens said: So you are saying that currently the best way to enlarge an image with interpolation is getting someone else to do it. Now, say that 'someone else' approached you and asked you what is currently the best way to enlarge an image with interpolation, what would your answer be? Listen, before the ink shoots out of the nozzles the printer is going to be doing its own transforms in both the geometric and color domains anyway, and it's just possible that the fellas who designed its mechanism and firmware knew what they were doing, no? I mean it's also possible (but not likely) that things might not turn out that great, but you can't just take it as a given that in-printer interpolation is worse than doing it yourself, because doing enlargement yourself in software is no guarantee that this combined with the printer's own transforms that it ALWAYS applies as a natural part of the printing process won't make things worse in the end. Each printer has its own character and you have to figure out the best workflow afresh if you change printers. Hopefully, if you have set things up correctly yourself, the printer has to do the minimum of adjustment and if your color management is correct you should end up with what you saw on the screen. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#20
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Image enlargement software
Oregonian Haruspex wrote:
On 2014-10-15 20:54:54 +0000, Eric Stevens said: So you are saying that currently the best way to enlarge an image with interpolation is getting someone else to do it. Now, say that 'someone else' approached you and asked you what is currently the best way to enlarge an image with interpolation, what would your answer be? Listen, before the ink shoots out of the nozzles the printer is going to be doing its own transforms in both the geometric and color domains anyway, and it's just possible that the fellas who designed its mechanism and firmware knew what they were doing, no? Oh, they do know what they are doing. They are designing printers. They are virtually all very poor at computer software. Their drivers aren't the best, and the internal computer that drives the hardware usually has a horrible human interface. There are people who specialize in image software. Some of them specialize in only the development of image re-sampling software. They produce commercial products and sometimes academic papers too. It is a well known fact that printer manufacturers use, almost universally, something that is just one step ahead of what is called "Nearest-neighbor interpolation". They do not actually generate "pixels" for the print engine, they produce dithered lines. But the print driver, even if it used a great algorithm, has two problems. The biggest one is that you cannot preview the image and therefore cannot resharpen it by inspection to suit the new pixel dimensions. If there is no other reason, that one is enough to never ever send an image to the print driver that has not been first resampled and then resharpened to exactly match the PPI rate of the printer. But the other problem is that selection of an algorithm is not really possible. The driver may be able to use something different for up sampling than for down sampling, but it cannot know if the image is text, line drawings or photographs with busy detail or photographs with only smooth detail. One size simply cannot fit all images... I mean it's also possible (but not likely) that things might not turn out that great, but you can't just take it as a given that in-printer interpolation is worse than doing it yourself, because doing enlargement yourself in software is no guarantee that this combined with the printer's own transforms that it ALWAYS applies as a natural part of the printing process won't make things worse in the end. Unless of course you have some modicum of knowledge about what you are doing. Experience is nice, but so is Google. Anyone can learn enough in a couple days to do a vastly more appropriate job than simply letting the print driver handle it. Each printer has its own character and you have to figure out the best workflow afresh if you change printers. -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/ Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
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