A Photography forum. PhotoBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PhotoBanter.com forum » Digital Photography » Digital SLR Cameras
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Pentax K10D beats (sharpness, detail) Canon 40D



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old October 24th 07, 03:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
RichA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,544
Default Pentax K10D beats (sharpness, detail) Canon 40D

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page26.asp

  #2  
Old October 24th 07, 04:33 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David J Taylor[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,151
Default Pentax K10D beats (sharpness, detail) Canon 40D?

RichA wrote:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page26.asp


... as would be expected simply due to its weaker anti-aliasing filter.

David


  #3  
Old October 24th 07, 05:05 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
RichA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,544
Default Pentax K10D beats (sharpness, detail) Canon 40D?

On Oct 24, 11:33 am, "David J Taylor" -
this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk wrote:
RichA wrote:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page26.asp


.. as would be expected simply due to its weaker anti-aliasing filter.

David


That's what the site speculated caused it. Good thing is, of the
shots someone will take, it is likely few will be effected by a slight
increase in moire, but all will benefit from an increase in resolution
and sharpness.

  #4  
Old October 24th 07, 06:03 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David Kilpatrick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 693
Default Pentax K10D beats (sharpness, detail) Canon 40D

RichA wrote:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page26.asp



With this quote:

"There isn't a single camera on the market which gains so much by
shooting RAW and using Adobe Camera RAW to convert its images than the
K10D. The difference is night and day and indeed the K10D in this
comparison trumps the EOS 40D for detail which hints perhaps that Pentax
are using a sensor with a lighter anti-alias filter (although if you
look at some of the crops you can see some demosaicing artifacts)."

This is true to a degree - if you study the 40D and K10D results, the
40D is at least a decent smooth raw conversion, the K10D is ragged as
hell and actually has less detail than the 40D, just higher contrast and
some aggressive sharpening.

The Sony A100 beats the K10D for raw extract detail. The only reason the
statement above is true is a subtle - the camera 'gains so much' because
its JPEGs are awful - very flat and soft. The A100 can not be said to
gain quite as much because the JPEGs are not such a contrast to raw
conversions.

I doubt the abilities present at dPreview if the analysis of the
examples shown is that the Pentax beats the Canon. Even the very first
pair of images show that the Canon has finer, smoother, more accurately
drawn detail. If I got raw conversions like those shown for the Pentax I
would upset - any further sharpening or interpolating etc would be
impossible with such crude detail.

David
  #5  
Old October 24th 07, 06:37 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David J Taylor[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,151
Default Pentax K10D beats (sharpness, detail) Canon 40D?

RichA wrote:
On Oct 24, 11:33 am, "David J Taylor" -
this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk wrote:
RichA wrote:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page26.asp


.. as would be expected simply due to its weaker anti-aliasing
filter.

David


That's what the site speculated caused it. Good thing is, of the
shots someone will take, it is likely few will be effected by a slight
increase in moire, but all will benefit from an increase in resolution
and sharpness.


No, it's false sharpness. Once the higher spatial frequencies have been
aliased down to lower, more visible frequencies, no amount of
post-processing will remove the damage done without causing serious
degradation of the image. It can also be one of those subtle effects
where you look at an image, and know something is wrong with it, but can't
quite put your finger on it.

Just say "no" to poor anti-alias filters!

David


  #6  
Old October 24th 07, 08:29 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
RichA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,544
Default Pentax K10D beats (sharpness, detail) Canon 40D

On Oct 24, 1:03 pm, David Kilpatrick wrote:
RichA wrote:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page26.asp


With this quote:

"There isn't a single camera on the market which gains so much by
shooting RAW and using Adobe Camera RAW to convert its images than the
K10D. The difference is night and day and indeed the K10D in this
comparison trumps the EOS 40D for detail which hints perhaps that Pentax
are using a sensor with a lighter anti-alias filter (although if you
look at some of the crops you can see some demosaicing artifacts)."

This is true to a degree - if you study the 40D and K10D results, the
40D is at least a decent smooth raw conversion, the K10D is ragged as
hell and actually has less detail than the 40D, just higher contrast and
some aggressive sharpening.

The Sony A100 beats the K10D for raw extract detail. The only reason the
statement above is true is a subtle - the camera 'gains so much' because
its JPEGs are awful - very flat and soft. The A100 can not be said to
gain quite as much because the JPEGs are not such a contrast to raw
conversions.

I doubt the abilities present at dPreview if the analysis of the
examples shown is that the Pentax beats the Canon. Even the very first
pair of images show that the Canon has finer, smoother, more accurately
drawn detail. If I got raw conversions like those shown for the Pentax I
would upset - any further sharpening or interpolating etc would be
impossible with such crude detail.

David


But, the K10D also has at least 10% higher resolution than the Canon
as well, which means (in effect) it is operating like a camera with a
higher megapixel count.
The Sony is also good because it doesn't forgo detail in order to
control noise.
I don't know why they talk about bad JPEGS contrasting with raw,
resolution is resolution and it has nothing to do with "perception."

  #7  
Old October 24th 07, 08:30 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
RichA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,544
Default Pentax K10D beats (sharpness, detail) Canon 40D?

On Oct 24, 1:37 pm, "David J Taylor" -this-
bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk wrote:
RichA wrote:
On Oct 24, 11:33 am, "David J Taylor" -
this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk wrote:
RichA wrote:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page26.asp


.. as would be expected simply due to its weaker anti-aliasing
filter.


David


That's what the site speculated caused it. Good thing is, of the
shots someone will take, it is likely few will be effected by a slight
increase in moire, but all will benefit from an increase in resolution
and sharpness.


No, it's false sharpness. Once the higher spatial frequencies have been
aliased down to lower, more visible frequencies, no amount of
post-processing will remove the damage done without causing serious
degradation of the image. It can also be one of those subtle effects
where you look at an image, and know something is wrong with it, but can't
quite put your finger on it.

Just say "no" to poor anti-alias filters!

David


How do you know the sharpness is "false?" If more real detail is
visible, it isn't just a ragged contrast effect, it is higher
resolution.

  #8  
Old October 24th 07, 08:44 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David J Taylor[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,151
Default Pentax K10D beats (sharpness, detail) Canon 40D?

RichA wrote:
On Oct 24, 1:37 pm, "David J Taylor"
-this- bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk wrote:
RichA wrote:
On Oct 24, 11:33 am, "David J Taylor" -
this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk wrote:
RichA wrote:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page26.asp


.. as would be expected simply due to its weaker anti-aliasing
filter.


David


That's what the site speculated caused it. Good thing is, of the
shots someone will take, it is likely few will be effected by a
slight increase in moire, but all will benefit from an increase in
resolution and sharpness.


No, it's false sharpness. Once the higher spatial frequencies have
been aliased down to lower, more visible frequencies, no amount of
post-processing will remove the damage done without causing serious
degradation of the image. It can also be one of those subtle effects
where you look at an image, and know something is wrong with it, but
can't quite put your finger on it.

Just say "no" to poor anti-alias filters!

David


How do you know the sharpness is "false?" If more real detail is
visible, it isn't just a ragged contrast effect, it is higher
resolution.


If the sharpness is achieved through having too weak an anti-alias
filter - it's false. The effect will be that the higher spatial
frequencies are aliased down to the lower ones, and this is most easily
visible on patterned objects, as you know, creating rather nasty artefacts
in the image. Sharp edges (perhaps what you are describing as detail)
will be aliased in exactly the same way, creating an artificial, rather
unpleasant sharpness to the image. Something your eyes and brain may tell
you isn't right.

If you like that effect, so be it. Optical anti-alias filters, unlike
those in the audio world, are not near-perfect, so you need to decide for
yourself what is "good enough".

Cheers,
David


  #9  
Old October 24th 07, 09:02 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
John Bean
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 584
Default Pentax K10D beats (sharpness, detail) Canon 40D?

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:44:25 GMT, "David J Taylor"

wrote:

RichA wrote:
On Oct 24, 1:37 pm, "David J Taylor"


Just say "no" to poor anti-alias filters!


How do you know the sharpness is "false?" If more real detail is
visible, it isn't just a ragged contrast effect, it is higher
resolution.


Harry Nyquist will be spinning in his grave...

If the sharpness is achieved through having too weak an anti-alias
filter - it's false.


Don't waste your energy trying to explain facts to the troll
David.


--
John Bean
  #10  
Old October 25th 07, 12:06 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Pentax K10D beats (sharpness, detail) Canon 40D?

On Oct 24, 3:44 pm, "David J Taylor" -this-
bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk wrote:

If the sharpness is achieved through having too weak an anti-alias
filter - it's false. The effect will be that the higher spatial
frequencies are aliased down to the lower ones, and this is most easily
visible on patterned objects, as you know, creating rather nasty artefacts
in the image.


You mean like this one?

http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/Ca...eos40d-004.jpg

Notice how the lines criss-cross.



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pentax K10D Tyler Heibeck Digital SLR Cameras 31 October 2nd 07 01:15 PM
Pentax K10D or Canon 30D GS[_2_] Digital SLR Cameras 19 June 16th 07 10:49 PM
Pentax K10d frederick Digital SLR Cameras 44 September 17th 06 09:25 PM
Pentax K10D now on Pentax site Pete D Digital SLR Cameras 0 September 14th 06 01:13 AM
Canon Kit Lens beats Nikon in every test. Steve Franklin Digital SLR Cameras 17 August 19th 05 10:31 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PhotoBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.