Not using a stop bath when developing film?

On 14 Nov 2004 04:43:30 -0800, (Richard
Knoppow) wrote:

Well, folks, there just isn't any
black magic in photographic chemistry anymore.

Doggone it ! Ansel beat me to all that Black Magic developer
!!


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
Please remove the "_" when replying via email

(Uranium Committee) wrote

2. I quit using stop bath because I don't think it is the best way to
stop development evenly. For about 10 years now I simply pour several
large containers of tempered water into my Paterson tanks and flush
the developer out. I never have streaks anymore, which I sometimes
experienced with stop bath.


Eddie Ephraums has suggested a water rinse prior to an acid
stop. IIRC, his concern is with reticulation. Of course the rinse
will remove some developer, and dilute and neutralize that which
remains. Short acid stops are recommended by Ilford and Kodak.
They will confer upon and to some small extent within the
emulsion the acidity needed to maintain the acid fix.
I've been reviewing Dr. Gudzinowicz's evaluation of water vs
acid "stops". Of course he goes on and on some what. Search this
NG for, 3.8 4.8 5.8 pka to assess at least one treatise
of his on that subject and associated matters. Dan

(Uranium Committee) wrote

2. I quit using stop bath because I don't think it is the best way to
stop development evenly. For about 10 years now I simply pour several
large containers of tempered water into my Paterson tanks and flush
the developer out. I never have streaks anymore, which I sometimes
experienced with stop bath.


Eddie Ephraums has suggested a water rinse prior to an acid
stop. IIRC, his concern is with reticulation. Of course the rinse
will remove some developer, and dilute and neutralize that which
remains. Short acid stops are recommended by Ilford and Kodak.
They will confer upon and to some small extent within the
emulsion the acidity needed to maintain the acid fix.
I've been reviewing Dr. Gudzinowicz's evaluation of water vs
acid "stops". Of course he goes on and on some what. Search this
NG for, 3.8 4.8 5.8 pka to assess at least one treatise
of his on that subject and associated matters. Dan

(Dan Quinn) wrote in message . com...
(Uranium Committee) wrote

2. I quit using stop bath because I don't think it is the best way to
stop development evenly. For about 10 years now I simply pour several
large containers of tempered water into my Paterson tanks and flush
the developer out. I never have streaks anymore, which I sometimes
experienced with stop bath.


Eddie Ephraums has suggested a water rinse prior to an acid
stop. IIRC, his concern is with reticulation. Of course the rinse
will remove some developer, and dilute and neutralize that which
remains. Short acid stops are recommended by Ilford and Kodak.
They will confer upon and to some small extent within the
emulsion the acidity needed to maintain the acid fix.
I've been reviewing Dr. Gudzinowicz's evaluation of water vs
acid "stops". Of course he goes on and on some what. Search this
NG for, 3.8 4.8 5.8 pka to assess at least one treatise
of his on that subject and associated matters. Dan


The problem as I see it is that when the stop bath hits the film in a
tank it may do so unevenly, causing some streaking. I did occasionally
experience this. By flushing the developer out with water under a
little pressure or flow, one is assured of a kinder, gentler end to
development. I simply leave the tank full of developer, and begin
pouring water in through a funnel into the neck of the Paterson tank.
This way, the water replaces the devloper, and the developer is not
left clinging to the film in uneven layers, which can happen when the
tank is emptied and allowed to drain before the next step. This
developer clinging to the film can cause uneven development.

This method may not work with stainless steel tanks, because there is
no flow-through mechanism in them.

http://www.patersonphotographic.com/...ies/page3.html

http://www.jjmehta.com/products/pate...anksprial.html

The Paterson tank allows the solution to go down the center tube and
fush out the sides.

(Dan Quinn) wrote in message . com...
(Uranium Committee) wrote

2. I quit using stop bath because I don't think it is the best way to
stop development evenly. For about 10 years now I simply pour several
large containers of tempered water into my Paterson tanks and flush
the developer out. I never have streaks anymore, which I sometimes
experienced with stop bath.


Eddie Ephraums has suggested a water rinse prior to an acid
stop. IIRC, his concern is with reticulation. Of course the rinse
will remove some developer, and dilute and neutralize that which
remains. Short acid stops are recommended by Ilford and Kodak.
They will confer upon and to some small extent within the
emulsion the acidity needed to maintain the acid fix.
I've been reviewing Dr. Gudzinowicz's evaluation of water vs
acid "stops". Of course he goes on and on some what. Search this
NG for, 3.8 4.8 5.8 pka to assess at least one treatise
of his on that subject and associated matters. Dan


The problem as I see it is that when the stop bath hits the film in a
tank it may do so unevenly, causing some streaking. I did occasionally
experience this. By flushing the developer out with water under a
little pressure or flow, one is assured of a kinder, gentler end to
development. I simply leave the tank full of developer, and begin
pouring water in through a funnel into the neck of the Paterson tank.
This way, the water replaces the devloper, and the developer is not
left clinging to the film in uneven layers, which can happen when the
tank is emptied and allowed to drain before the next step. This
developer clinging to the film can cause uneven development.

This method may not work with stainless steel tanks, because there is
no flow-through mechanism in them.

http://www.patersonphotographic.com/...ies/page3.html

http://www.jjmehta.com/products/pate...anksprial.html

The Paterson tank allows the solution to go down the center tube and
fush out the sides.

Uranium Committee wrote:

(Dan Quinn) wrote in message . com...
(Uranium Committee) wrote

2. I quit using stop bath because I don't think it is the best way to
stop development evenly. For about 10 years now I simply pour several
large containers of tempered water into my Paterson tanks and flush
the developer out. I never have streaks anymore, which I sometimes
experienced with stop bath.


Eddie Ephraums has suggested a water rinse prior to an acid
stop. IIRC, his concern is with reticulation. Of course the rinse
will remove some developer, and dilute and neutralize that which
remains. Short acid stops are recommended by Ilford and Kodak.
They will confer upon and to some small extent within the
emulsion the acidity needed to maintain the acid fix.
I've been reviewing Dr. Gudzinowicz's evaluation of water vs
acid "stops". Of course he goes on and on some what. Search this
NG for, 3.8 4.8 5.8 pka to assess at least one treatise
of his on that subject and associated matters. Dan

The problem as I see it is that when the stop bath hits the film in a
tank it may do so unevenly, causing some streaking. I did occasionally
experience this.

You must have been naked and hallucinating in your darkroom...

By flushing the developer out with water under a
little pressure or flow, one is assured of a kinder, gentler end to
development. I simply leave the tank full of developer, and begin
pouring water in through a funnel into the neck of the Paterson tank.
This way, the water replaces the devloper, and the developer is not
left clinging to the film in uneven layers, which can happen when the
tank is emptied and allowed to drain before the next step. This
developer clinging to the film can cause uneven development.

Troll nonsense. Developer simply continues to develop
until exhausted. Doesn't cause "uneven" development,
since the negative density controls the effect. Also,
with either a water rinse or an actual stop bath diffusion
should occur at the same rate. Being acidic, stop bath works
quicker by neutralizing developer _alkalinity_ and thus has
the advantage of preventing carry over.

This method may not work with stainless steel tanks, because there is
no flow-through mechanism in them.

http://www.patersonphotographic.com/...ies/page3.html

http://www.jjmehta.com/products/pate...anksprial.html

The Paterson tank allows the solution to go down the center tube and
fush out the sides.

Uranium Committee wrote:

(Dan Quinn) wrote in message . com...
(Uranium Committee) wrote

2. I quit using stop bath because I don't think it is the best way to
stop development evenly. For about 10 years now I simply pour several
large containers of tempered water into my Paterson tanks and flush
the developer out. I never have streaks anymore, which I sometimes
experienced with stop bath.


Eddie Ephraums has suggested a water rinse prior to an acid
stop. IIRC, his concern is with reticulation. Of course the rinse
will remove some developer, and dilute and neutralize that which
remains. Short acid stops are recommended by Ilford and Kodak.
They will confer upon and to some small extent within the
emulsion the acidity needed to maintain the acid fix.
I've been reviewing Dr. Gudzinowicz's evaluation of water vs
acid "stops". Of course he goes on and on some what. Search this
NG for, 3.8 4.8 5.8 pka to assess at least one treatise
of his on that subject and associated matters. Dan

The problem as I see it is that when the stop bath hits the film in a
tank it may do so unevenly, causing some streaking. I did occasionally
experience this.

You must have been naked and hallucinating in your darkroom...

By flushing the developer out with water under a
little pressure or flow, one is assured of a kinder, gentler end to
development. I simply leave the tank full of developer, and begin
pouring water in through a funnel into the neck of the Paterson tank.
This way, the water replaces the devloper, and the developer is not
left clinging to the film in uneven layers, which can happen when the
tank is emptied and allowed to drain before the next step. This
developer clinging to the film can cause uneven development.

Troll nonsense. Developer simply continues to develop
until exhausted. Doesn't cause "uneven" development,
since the negative density controls the effect. Also,
with either a water rinse or an actual stop bath diffusion
should occur at the same rate. Being acidic, stop bath works
quicker by neutralizing developer _alkalinity_ and thus has
the advantage of preventing carry over.

This method may not work with stainless steel tanks, because there is
no flow-through mechanism in them.

http://www.patersonphotographic.com/...ies/page3.html

http://www.jjmehta.com/products/pate...anksprial.html

The Paterson tank allows the solution to go down the center tube and
fush out the sides.

Tom Phillips wrote in message ...
Uranium Committee wrote:

The problem as I see it is that when the stop bath hits the film in a
tank it may do so unevenly, causing some streaking. I did occasionally
experience this.

You must have been naked and hallucinating in your darkroom...

By flushing the developer out with water under a
little pressure or flow, one is assured of a kinder, gentler end to
development. I simply leave the tank full of developer, and begin
pouring water in through a funnel into the neck of the Paterson tank.
This way, the water replaces the devloper, and the developer is not
left clinging to the film in uneven layers, which can happen when the
tank is emptied and allowed to drain before the next step. This
developer clinging to the film can cause uneven development.

Troll nonsense. Developer simply continues to develop
until exhausted. Doesn't cause "uneven" development,
since the negative density controls the effect.

Uneven coating of developer will certainly cause streaking, as would
occur when stop bath is splashed onto the film that still has areas
that are wet with developer.

Also,
with either a water rinse or an actual stop bath diffusion
should occur at the same rate. Being acidic, stop bath works
quicker by neutralizing developer _alkalinity_ and thus has
the advantage of preventing carry over.

I rinse the film thoroughly with lots of water that displaces and
replaces the developer over about 7 seconds. The point is that the
change-over is more uniform, because the water does not arrest
development instantly, but smoothly.


This method may not work with stainless steel tanks, because there is
no flow-through mechanism in them.

http://www.patersonphotographic.com/...ies/page3.html

http://www.jjmehta.com/products/pate...anksprial.html

The Paterson tank allows the solution to go down the center tube and
fush out the sides.

Tom Phillips wrote in message ...
Uranium Committee wrote:

The problem as I see it is that when the stop bath hits the film in a
tank it may do so unevenly, causing some streaking. I did occasionally
experience this.

You must have been naked and hallucinating in your darkroom...

By flushing the developer out with water under a
little pressure or flow, one is assured of a kinder, gentler end to
development. I simply leave the tank full of developer, and begin
pouring water in through a funnel into the neck of the Paterson tank.
This way, the water replaces the devloper, and the developer is not
left clinging to the film in uneven layers, which can happen when the
tank is emptied and allowed to drain before the next step. This
developer clinging to the film can cause uneven development.

Troll nonsense. Developer simply continues to develop
until exhausted. Doesn't cause "uneven" development,
since the negative density controls the effect.

Uneven coating of developer will certainly cause streaking, as would
occur when stop bath is splashed onto the film that still has areas
that are wet with developer.

Also,
with either a water rinse or an actual stop bath diffusion
should occur at the same rate. Being acidic, stop bath works
quicker by neutralizing developer _alkalinity_ and thus has
the advantage of preventing carry over.

I rinse the film thoroughly with lots of water that displaces and
replaces the developer over about 7 seconds. The point is that the
change-over is more uniform, because the water does not arrest
development instantly, but smoothly.


This method may not work with stainless steel tanks, because there is
no flow-through mechanism in them.

http://www.patersonphotographic.com/...ies/page3.html

http://www.jjmehta.com/products/pate...anksprial.html

The Paterson tank allows the solution to go down the center tube and
fush out the sides.

Andrew McCall wrote in message ...
Hi Folks,

The college I go to have recently decided not to use a stop bath when
developing film as the gasses it produces seems to agitate some students
with asthma.
...
I will probably be developing my film at home now, but I was wondering
if I have to, will developing at college with no stop bath have an
effect on my negatives.

Use water as a stop bath instead. While it doesn't
neutralize the alkaline developer the way an acid
stop does, the sudden sharp dilution of the developer
has much the same effect.

Or use a citric acid stop bath, instead of acetic acid.
Acetic acid smells (vinegar). Citric acid doesn't.

Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Que les nuages soient notre
Grid: CN89mg pied a terre..."
ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - Hospital/Shafte