Ken Rockwell is a loon

Στις 3/4/2014 5:15 μμ, ο/η Tony Cooper Î*γÏ�αψε:
On 3 Apr 2014 07:21:54 GMT, Sandman wrote:

In article , RichA wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53429238

Not Ken Rockwell: http://www.lowerantelope.com/aboutTheTour.php

Tour rules clearly specifies what cameras are allowed. Stupid rules,
perhaps, but should have been known to the person that booked the tour.

That said, the rules are a bit muddy (even though it's clear they don't
allow m4/3).

They write "SLR camera, medium or large format", which could be interpreted
as three choices - SLR, medium format or large format. But then they list
the requirements and write "SLR camera (medium or large format)" which
narrows it down to two options which in reality is just one option since
there are no large format SLR's. So unless you have a medium format SLR,
you're out of luck

If you are going to comment on the wording, quote all the words:

"The REQUIRED equipment are a SLR camera, medium or large format WITH
a tripod. No guide is provided for the photographer, but a Canyon
Monitor will check on you periodically for questions or assistant."

That rule looks like something you'd write. The "are" should be "is"
as a referent to the word "equipment", but it would not be understood
by anyone with an understanding of English to mean three choices. It
would be a clearer sentence with a comma after "format", but it's not
totally unclear.

As you point out, the rule allows for something that doesn't exist: a
large format slr. It also says that a Canyon Monitor will check on
you periodically for an assistant. That, too, sounds like something
you'd write since it makes no sense.



maybe they mean the size of the sensor?Since almost nobody uses film
SLRs anymore, and there are no large format film SLRs, and medium format
SLRs are costing an arm and a leg, maybe they mean APS sized sensors and
full size sensors?

Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:

and there are no large format film SLRs,

Large format film SLRs are quite common, they may not have been
made for many years, but it is still quite possible to pick up
a working Graflex 4x5 SLR for not too much money. If you stick a
digital back on one you can have a Graflex DSLR.

Peter.
--

In article , Peter Irwin
wrote:

and there are no large format film SLRs,

Large format film SLRs are quite common, they may not have been
made for many years, but it is still quite possible to pick up
a working Graflex 4x5 SLR for not too much money. If you stick a
digital back on one you can have a Graflex DSLR.

they existed, but it was not very common (and large format itself is
not common), plus a scanning back is very limiting since you're
restricted to still life.

On 4/3/2014 11:31 AM, Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:
Στις 3/4/2014 5:15 μμ, ο/η Tony Cooper Î*γÏ�αψε:
On 3 Apr 2014 07:21:54 GMT, Sandman wrote:

In article ,
RichA wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53429238

Not Ken Rockwell: http://www.lowerantelope.com/aboutTheTour.php

Tour rules clearly specifies what cameras are allowed. Stupid rules,
perhaps, but should have been known to the person that booked the tour.

That said, the rules are a bit muddy (even though it's clear they don't
allow m4/3).

They write "SLR camera, medium or large format", which could be
interpreted
as three choices - SLR, medium format or large format. But then they
list
the requirements and write "SLR camera (medium or large format)" which
narrows it down to two options which in reality is just one option since
there are no large format SLR's. So unless you have a medium format SLR,
you're out of luck

If you are going to comment on the wording, quote all the words:

"The REQUIRED equipment are a SLR camera, medium or large format WITH
a tripod. No guide is provided for the photographer, but a Canyon
Monitor will check on you periodically for questions or assistant."

That rule looks like something you'd write. The "are" should be "is"
as a referent to the word "equipment", but it would not be understood
by anyone with an understanding of English to mean three choices. It
would be a clearer sentence with a comma after "format", but it's not
totally unclear.

As you point out, the rule allows for something that doesn't exist: a
large format slr. It also says that a Canyon Monitor will check on
you periodically for an assistant. That, too, sounds like something
you'd write since it makes no sense.



maybe they mean the size of the sensor?Since almost nobody uses film
SLRs anymore, and there are no large format film SLRs, and medium format
SLRs are costing an arm and a leg, maybe they mean APS sized sensors and
full size sensors?

How does a Hasellblad fit in?

Hasselblad has announced the H3DII-50, with a new Kodak sensor of 50MP,
same 49.1x36.8mm size as the 39MP and 22MP sensor, but now with 6 micron
pixel


--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

On 2014-04-03 15:38:43 +0000, Whisky-dave said:

On Thursday, 3 April 2014 16:31:00 UTC+1, Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:
Στις 3/4/2014 5:15 μμ, ο/η Tony Cooper Î*γÏ�αψε:

On 3 Apr 2014 07:21:54 GMT, Sandman wrote:



In article ,
RichA wrote:



http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53429238



Not Ken Rockwell: http://www.lowerantelope.com/aboutTheTour.php



Tour rules clearly specifies what cameras are allowed. Stupid rules,

perhaps, but should have been known to the person that booked the tour.



That said, the rules are a bit muddy (even though it's clear they don't

allow m4/3).



They write "SLR camera, medium or large format", which could be interpreted

as three choices - SLR, medium format or large format. But then they list

the requirements and write "SLR camera (medium or large format)" which

narrows it down to two options which in reality is just one option since

there are no large format SLR's. So unless you have a medium format SLR,

you're out of luck



If you are going to comment on the wording, quote all the words:



"The REQUIRED equipment are a SLR camera, medium or large format WITH

a tripod. No guide is provided for the photographer, but a Canyon

Monitor will check on you periodically for questions or assistant."



That rule looks like something you'd write. The "are" should be "is"

as a referent to the word "equipment", but it would not be understood

by anyone with an understanding of English to mean three choices. It

would be a clearer sentence with a comma after "format", but it's not

totally unclear.



As you point out, the rule allows for something that doesn't exist: a

large format slr. It also says that a Canyon Monitor will check on

you periodically for an assistant. That, too, sounds like something

you'd write since it makes no sense.







maybe they mean the size of the sensor?Since almost nobody uses film
SLRs anymore, and there are no large format film SLRs, and medium
format SLRs are costing an arm and a leg, maybe they mean APS sized
sensors and full size sensors?

Why would the size of your sensor matter to them, the tour operators,
unless of course it was a money making scam, the bigger your sensor the
more expensive the tour. Do you think that people with compact camera
wouldn't be allowed on this tour, I'm not sure it does read that way.

I find it crazy that any photo tour operator would require a
photographer to have a certain type of camera. What about rangefinder
shooters, or a person with a 35mm TLR? No Xpans allowed? It's crazy.

On 2014-04-05 00:44:44 +0000, Oregonian Haruspex
said:

On 2014-04-03 15:38:43 +0000, Whisky-dave said:

On Thursday, 3 April 2014 16:31:00 UTC+1, Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:
Στις 3/4/2014 5:15 μμ, ο/η Tony Cooper Î*γÏ�αψε:

On 3 Apr 2014 07:21:54 GMT, Sandman wrote:



In article ,
RichA wrote:



http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53429238



Not Ken Rockwell: http://www.lowerantelope.com/aboutTheTour.php



Tour rules clearly specifies what cameras are allowed. Stupid rules,

perhaps, but should have been known to the person that booked the tour.



That said, the rules are a bit muddy (even though it's clear they don't

allow m4/3).



They write "SLR camera, medium or large format", which could be interpreted

as three choices - SLR, medium format or large format. But then they list

the requirements and write "SLR camera (medium or large format)" which

narrows it down to two options which in reality is just one option since

there are no large format SLR's. So unless you have a medium format SLR,

you're out of luck



If you are going to comment on the wording, quote all the words:



"The REQUIRED equipment are a SLR camera, medium or large format WITH

a tripod. No guide is provided for the photographer, but a Canyon

Monitor will check on you periodically for questions or assistant."



That rule looks like something you'd write. The "are" should be "is"

as a referent to the word "equipment", but it would not be understood

by anyone with an understanding of English to mean three choices. It

would be a clearer sentence with a comma after "format", but it's not

totally unclear.



As you point out, the rule allows for something that doesn't exist: a

large format slr. It also says that a Canyon Monitor will check on

you periodically for an assistant. That, too, sounds like something

you'd write since it makes no sense.







maybe they mean the size of the sensor?Since almost nobody uses film
SLRs anymore, and there are no large format film SLRs, and medium
format SLRs are costing an arm and a leg, maybe they mean APS sized
sensors and full size sensors?

Why would the size of your sensor matter to them, the tour operators,
unless of course it was a money making scam, the bigger your sensor the
more expensive the tour. Do you think that people with compact camera
wouldn't be allowed on this tour, I'm not sure it does read that way.

I find it crazy that any photo tour operator would require a
photographer to have a certain type of camera. What about rangefinder
shooters, or a person with a 35mm TLR? No Xpans allowed? It's crazy.

The standard slot canyon tours are run by the Navaho Tribal Authority,
require a Navaho guide and are crowded with large tour bus groups and
are not given any real photo opportunities.
Apparently this bizarre & restrictive rule was written by individuals
in the Tribal & Park authorities ignorant of modern camera capabilities
in order to control numbers of *serious* photographers on the photo
enthusiast tours of the slot canyons vs the standard tours.
They figured that by creating what they thought was a specification for
*serious* cameras there would not be the typical crowded P&S, and phone
camera mob filling the slot canyons with snap happy tourists. The idea
was to create an environment for shooting images without crowds filling
the canyon floor making it more attractive for the *serious photo
enthusiast*.

The recommendation for a tripod is for the ability to capture low
light, long exposure images, as that is the typical shooting
environment in the slot canyons.
The tripod is only required for the *photo tours* which have fewer
numbers of *serious photographer* participants, and which are not the
typical crowded tourist tour. In the slot canyons the light conditions
are low light-high contrast, so the best results are obtained with long
exposures making a tripod a vital accessory. High ISO alone is not
going to solve the problem. HDR would help, but even there a tripod
would be a big help. All needed to get images such as these:

http://www.amazingplacesonearth.com/...e-Canyon-3.jpg


http://www.vistanature.com/wp-conten...ope-Canyon.jpg
http://neshtoto.com/wp-content/uploa...ope-Canyon.jpg

The typical tourist with a P&S or a phone camera shooting on auto, or
scene mode is not going to be very happy with the results they get.
they end up looking like this:
http://shmamaland.files.wordpress.co...1/nik_6105.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ope_Canyon.jpg


I don't believe they had any idea of what they were doing other than
making a sincere attempt to make a less crowded *photo tour* for the
*serious photo enthusiast*. They just didn't know how to identify that
photographer other than not allowing camera users of what didn't look
like *serious* equipment to them.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article , Oregonian Haruspex
wrote:

I find it crazy that any photo tour operator would require a
photographer to have a certain type of camera. What about rangefinder
shooters, or a person with a 35mm TLR? No Xpans allowed? It's crazy.

any photo tour operator that has restrictions on camera gear especially
crazy restrictions such as what was described is not worth bothering
with at all. what matters is the photographer, not the camera.

In article 2014040418460855379-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

The standard slot canyon tours are run by the Navaho Tribal Authority,
require a Navaho guide and are crowded with large tour bus groups and
are not given any real photo opportunities.
Apparently this bizarre & restrictive rule was written by individuals
in the Tribal & Park authorities ignorant of modern camera capabilities
in order to control numbers of *serious* photographers on the photo
enthusiast tours of the slot canyons vs the standard tours.
They figured that by creating what they thought was a specification for
*serious* cameras there would not be the typical crowded P&S, and phone
camera mob filling the slot canyons with snap happy tourists. The idea
was to create an environment for shooting images without crowds filling
the canyon floor making it more attractive for the *serious photo
enthusiast*.

the solution would be to limit the number of people who can sign up for
the tour, regardless of camera.

On 2014-04-05 02:34:46 +0000, nospam said:

In article , Oregonian Haruspex
wrote:

I find it crazy that any photo tour operator would require a
photographer to have a certain type of camera. What about rangefinder
shooters, or a person with a 35mm TLR? No Xpans allowed? It's crazy.

any photo tour operator that has restrictions on camera gear especially
crazy restrictions such as what was described is not worth bothering
with at all. what matters is the photographer, not the camera.

Have a talk with the Navaho Tribal Authority which operates all of the
Antelope Canyon, slot canyon tours, mass market bus tours & photo tours.
--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2014-04-05 02:34:48 +0000, nospam said:

In article 2014040418460855379-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

The standard slot canyon tours are run by the Navaho Tribal Authority,
require a Navaho guide and are crowded with large tour bus groups and
are not given any real photo opportunities.
Apparently this bizarre & restrictive rule was written by individuals
in the Tribal & Park authorities ignorant of modern camera capabilities
in order to control numbers of *serious* photographers on the photo
enthusiast tours of the slot canyons vs the standard tours.
They figured that by creating what they thought was a specification for
*serious* cameras there would not be the typical crowded P&S, and phone
camera mob filling the slot canyons with snap happy tourists. The idea
was to create an environment for shooting images without crowds filling
the canyon floor making it more attractive for the *serious photo
enthusiast*.

the solution would be to limit the number of people who can sign up for
the tour, regardless of camera.

Agreed. However, somebody in their chain of command must have led Adams
through there, and figures that a serious photographer is going to be
lugging an 8x10 or a Hassy.

--
Regards,

Savageduck